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Thread: 'Okla. tea parties and lawmakers envision militia', AP News for Yahoo.com

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    Okay, I tried the link and then the link within the link. No joy. Probably my lousy system.

    I'm very interested in this subject. Would it be possible to post the text here for me? Many thanks for any help.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Tried to post the text but couldn't get the send or even the preview buttons to work. Idunno.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    I read the article yesterday... Basically this is a very very exploratory conversation- They are all asking "... So what exactly Are we supposed to do when the Feds go to far?"


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...041203390.html

    OKLAHOMA CITY -- Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Gee, the concept of a citizen militia was around BEFORE the founding of this country. .. nobody said they were not.
    Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"
    Where do I sign up?.. No where; it's exploratory. Nothing even close to something closely resembling anything close to an actual anything. Just discussion.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    If you read the same article I read, some folks seemed to be shocked by such a radical concept.

    Suggestion: go read the entire article, my points were dead on, no pun intended.
    Posted: Tue Apr 13th, 2010 09:15 am I read the article yesterday...

    But thanks for the suggestion... I'll read it a third time.

    Please, answer the original questions

    Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"


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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    because THOSE are the VERY people who will be the most opposed to this idea.
    I'm asking you Why do you think that? Why do you believe those will be the very people who will be the most opposed to this idea? Specifically.

    Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"


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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    I don't have time to teach Common Sense 101 to adults, but there should be NO shortage of those who have nothing better to do with their time than argue over known fact.
    I'm not being rude, am I? I'm just wondering why you said Concealed Carry advocates and NRA members are Most Against this discussed militia. No big deal, friend. This is a place for discussion. Can you answer the question, Sir; specifically?

    Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"


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    Maybe you can supply references, sites, cites, or links that provide for the explanation that CC advocates and NRA members specifically are against this organized militia. I would appreciate the info! Thanks friend.

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    Washington Post

    Okla. tea parties and lawmakers envision militia

    By SEAN MURPHY and TIM TALLEY

    The Associated Press
    Monday, April 12, 2010; 9:30 PM

    OKLAHOMA CITY -- Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.

    Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.

    "Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"

    Thus far, the discussions have been exploratory. Even the proponents say they don't know how an armed force would be organized nor how a state-based militia could block federal mandates. Critics also asserted that the force could inflame extremism, and that the National Guard already provides for the state's military needs.

    "Have they heard of the Oklahoma City bombing?" said Joseph Thai, a constitutional law professor at the University of Oklahoma. The state observes the 15th anniversary of the anti-government attack on Monday. Such actions could "throw fuel in the fire of radicals," he said.

    But the militia talks reflect the frustration of some grass roots groups seeking new ways of fighting recent federal initiatives, such as the health reform plan, which requires all citizens to have health insurance. Over the last year, tea party groups across the country have staged rallies and pressured politicians to protest big government and demand reduced public spending.

    In strongly conservative states like Oklahoma, some legislators have also discussed further action to fight federal policies, such as state legislation and lawsuits.

    State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, a Republican candidate for governor who has appealed for tea party support, said supporters of a state militia have talked to him, and that he believes the citizen unit would be authorized under the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

    The founding fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other," Brogdon said. "The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government."

    Another lawmaker, state Rep. Charles Key, R-Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance of introducing legislation for a state-authorized militia next year.

    Tea party leader J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea began soliciting interest in a state militia through his newsletter under the subject "Buy more guns, more bullets."

    "It's not a far-right crazy plan or anything like that," Berry said. "This would be done with the full cooperation of the state Legislature."

    State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.

    Some conservative legislators in Oklahoma say talk of a militia, which would be privately recruited, armed and trained, goes too far.

    "If the intent is to create a militia for disaster relief, we have the National Guard," said Sen. Steve Russell, R-Oklahoma City, a retired Army lieutenant colonel. "Anything beyond that purpose should be viewed with great concern and caution."

    Democratic Gov. Brad Henry's communications director Paul Sund also discounted the militia discussion, saying the National Guard handles state emergencies and security.

    Federal authorities say that radical militia groups have not emerged in Oklahoma, unlike many other states, in part because of the legacy of the Oklahoma City bombing. On April 19, 1995, an anti-government conspiracy led by Army veteran Tim McVeigh exploded a truckbomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people.

    Last month, FBI agents conducted a raid on the Hutaree militia group in southern Michigan and accused members of plotting to kill law enforcement officers.

    (This version CORRECTS the spelling of building from Alfred P. Murray to Murrah.)
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I will bet there is alot more talking about it than just there. I dont know about anybody els, but Ive seen enough. Our founders didnt put up with this much BS.

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    Thanks Thundar et al.

    This may well be an idea whose time has come. Admittedly, there is potential for problems but properly constituted and operated it would be in the finest traditions of our country.

    If under office of a governor such a body would require and enjoy legislated authority superseding local law enforcement. Leadership would have to be chosen and screened with utmost care. We have to face the fact that there are nuts out there.

    I can almost hear the screeching now. As a Briton might say: This would certainly put the cat among the pigeons.

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    Senator Randy Brogdan is the elected official who is spearheading this debate in the public forum, you can see some of his recent statements here .

    He is also running for Governor, so take his statements for whatever you would consider they are worth in an ongoing political campaign.

    Also, Sen. Brogdan's statements were geared more towards supplementing the Oklahoma National Guard while they are (currently) deployed for providing emergency services and relief during times of natural or man-made disasters. (Geesh, who would of thought there is an actual application for that Obamanisim?)

    This was what was aired last night.
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    Thundar wrote:


    State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.



    The thing is that the state militia's are constitutionally authorized, but also federally.

    Under United States Code, it authorizes every able bodied man, yada, yada, and on

    and on. (It's been a while since i've had to use it for anything, but it's there). So no

    matter what you might believe or think YOU may be part of the militia:what:

    OH, my GOD!!!!:celebrate

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    No, not "every" man.

    Read up on it and you'll find who's NOT eligible.
    That's the rest of the yada, yada, i just didn't get into it. Besides i said you may be in

    the militia. Let's not get too technical, because i'm not in a technical mood tonight.

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    I have it bookmarked. It's great against the antis when they try the "Militias are the National Guard!!!1111" argument.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10...1----000-.html

    TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > §311 §311. Militia: composition and classes 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Many States already have legal militias. They are called State Defense Forces, State Guards or State Military Reserves. Here in Louisiana we have the LA State Guard. I signed up after I was discharged from the Army. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. State Defence Forces exist, are legal and can be expanded if and when the Govenor of a state sees fit.

    More about SDFs at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces

    Sincerely,

    Steve R.

    Former SSgt in LaSG, 1st Area Command, Baton Rouge, La.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

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    cabbitone wrote:
    You learn something new every day. I honestly had no idea there were SDF forces. Other than some lets say.... energetic... ones I wouldn't want to associate with.

    Which is exactily why, after years of running around with some of the more "energtic" citizen militias I realized I wanted something legit so I found the State Guard Association and they put me in touch with the person over recruiting for the LaSG. I trained in emergency management and learned to use resource tracking software so, for instance, if the State EOC sent a generator to a shelter in a certain Parish we knew where it was and who had it. Basic inventory control I also tested the RACES/Ham radio station at the State EOC each monthand learnd shelter duties. I leftLaSG to spend more time with the Volunteer Fire Department which lead to my getting a paid FD job. IF you live in a state with a SDF I recommend you check them out.

    Here's a link to the SDF subforum over at Military dot Com-

    http://forums.military.com/eve/forum.../1120002010001

    Lots of good info there. Hope this helped.
    Wait...I just saw that you are in Texas. Heck, Texas has a very active SDF. Check them out at- http://www.txsg.state.tx.us/

    More info and discussion here- http://www.allmilitary.com/board/viewforum.php?id=30.


    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

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    I would think most of the people in the National Guard are more loyal to the Federal Government than the State Govenment. It has been a very long time since people associate themselfs with their state over the Federal (America) Government. As for the State Guard I do not know enough about them to makea statement other than to wonderwhere their Federal trained officers real loyalty lies.

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    Under the militia system, much of the population arms itself. They bring their own

    weapons and supplies and train irregularly to train and drill. Usually ages range

    from 16 to 60. But not according to united states code.

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    Does anyone remember the old Civil Defense Corps? My dad was a member and I was with him through out his duties ... through tornado, snow storm, and on the firelines when the artillery base set the wildlife refuge on fire in the summer.

    In fact, the three school buildings that were in 'our' section of town that were the rally points were also the warehouse and storage points for materials and supplies ... 10 days of canned food and bottled water, generator, cots, blankets, sanitary facility supplies, medical supplies, etc. The three buildings were located on the same block and were also bomb shelters (built ca. 1965-1966). There were 5 other guys in the group and all 6 of them were licensed ham radio operators (a requirement at that time).

    So, in Oklahoma, I am not sure whether we actually need a civilian militia ... maybe just reactivate the old Civil Defense program. Most of the infrastructure should still be in place as it was intended to last.


    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    okboomer wrote:
    So, in Oklahoma, I am not sure whether we actually need a civilian militia ...
    Well, I'm sure the Brady Bunch thinks you don't need those guns you have.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    My point was thatan existing infrastructure and a proven track record might save some money and be implemented quicker ... but then, asking Congress, Federal or State, to save money is about like asking the Bradyites to use logical debate rather than hysteria and hyperbole.
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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