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'Okla. tea parties and lawmakers envision militia', AP News for Yahoo.com
- Thread starter Master Doug Huffman
- Start date
rodbender
Regular Member
imported post
Tried to post the text but couldn't get the send or even the preview buttons to work. Idunno.
Tried to post the text but couldn't get the send or even the preview buttons to work. Idunno.
cscitney87
Regular Member
imported post
I read the article yesterday... Basically this is a very very exploratory conversation- They are all asking "... So what exactly Are we supposed to do when the Feds go to far?"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/12/AR2010041203390.html
OKLAHOMA CITY -- Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.
I read the article yesterday... Basically this is a very very exploratory conversation- They are all asking "... So what exactly Are we supposed to do when the Feds go to far?"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/12/AR2010041203390.html
OKLAHOMA CITY -- Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.
mark edward marchiafava
Banned
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Gee, the concept of a citizen militia was around BEFORE the founding of this country.
Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist.
Where do I sign up?
Gee, the concept of a citizen militia was around BEFORE the founding of this country.
Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist.
Where do I sign up?
cscitney87
Regular Member
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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
mark edward marchiafava
Banned
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If you read the same article I read, some folks seemed to be shocked by such a radical concept.
Suggestion: go read the entire article, my points were dead on, no pun intended.
If you read the same article I read, some folks seemed to be shocked by such a radical concept.
Suggestion: go read the entire article, my points were dead on, no pun intended.
cscitney87
Regular Member
imported post
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
But thanks for the suggestion... I'll read it a third time.
Please, answer the original questions
Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Posted: Tue Apr 13th, 2010 09:15 am I read the article yesterday...
But thanks for the suggestion... I'll read it a third time.
Please, answer the original questions
Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"
mark edward marchiafava
Banned
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because THOSE are the VERY people who will be the most opposed to this idea.
because THOSE are the VERY people who will be the most opposed to this idea.
cscitney87
Regular Member
imported post
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
I'm asking you Why do you think that? Why do you believe those will be the very people who will be the most opposed to this idea? Specifically.
Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"
mark edward marchiafava
Banned
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I don't have time to teach Common Sense 101 to adults, but there should be NO shortage of those who have nothing better to do with their time than argue over known fact.
I don't have time to teach Common Sense 101 to adults, but there should be NO shortage of those who have nothing better to do with their time than argue over known fact.
cscitney87
Regular Member
imported post
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
I'm not being rude, am I? I'm just wondering why you said Concealed Carry advocates and NRA members are Most Against this discussed militia. No big deal, friend. This is a place for discussion. Can you answer the question, Sir; specifically?
Only problem I forsee is the CC/NRA crowd getting their thongs in a twist. ..What problems? Why mention problems with "Concealed Carry and National Rifle Association crowd?"
cscitney87
Regular Member
imported post
Maybe you can supply references, sites, cites, or links that provide for the explanation that CC advocates and NRA members specifically are against this organized militia. I would appreciate the info! Thanks friend.
Maybe you can supply references, sites, cites, or links that provide for the explanation that CC advocates and NRA members specifically are against this organized militia. I would appreciate the info! Thanks friend.
Thundar
Regular Member
imported post
Washington Post
Okla. tea parties and lawmakers envision militia
By SEAN MURPHY and TIM TALLEY
The Associated Press
Monday, April 12, 2010; 9:30 PM
OKLAHOMA CITY -- Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.
Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.
"Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"
Thus far, the discussions have been exploratory. Even the proponents say they don't know how an armed force would be organized nor how a state-based militia could block federal mandates. Critics also asserted that the force could inflame extremism, and that the National Guard already provides for the state's military needs.
"Have they heard of the Oklahoma City bombing?" said Joseph Thai, a constitutional law professor at the University of Oklahoma. The state observes the 15th anniversary of the anti-government attack on Monday. Such actions could "throw fuel in the fire of radicals," he said.
But the militia talks reflect the frustration of some grass roots groups seeking new ways of fighting recent federal initiatives, such as the health reform plan, which requires all citizens to have health insurance. Over the last year, tea party groups across the country have staged rallies and pressured politicians to protest big government and demand reduced public spending.
In strongly conservative states like Oklahoma, some legislators have also discussed further action to fight federal policies, such as state legislation and lawsuits.
State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, a Republican candidate for governor who has appealed for tea party support, said supporters of a state militia have talked to him, and that he believes the citizen unit would be authorized under the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
The founding fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other," Brogdon said. "The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government."
Another lawmaker, state Rep. Charles Key, R-Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance of introducing legislation for a state-authorized militia next year.
Tea party leader J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea began soliciting interest in a state militia through his newsletter under the subject "Buy more guns, more bullets."
"It's not a far-right crazy plan or anything like that," Berry said. "This would be done with the full cooperation of the state Legislature."
State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.
Some conservative legislators in Oklahoma say talk of a militia, which would be privately recruited, armed and trained, goes too far.
"If the intent is to create a militia for disaster relief, we have the National Guard," said Sen. Steve Russell, R-Oklahoma City, a retired Army lieutenant colonel. "Anything beyond that purpose should be viewed with great concern and caution."
Democratic Gov. Brad Henry's communications director Paul Sund also discounted the militia discussion, saying the National Guard handles state emergencies and security.
Federal authorities say that radical militia groups have not emerged in Oklahoma, unlike many other states, in part because of the legacy of the Oklahoma City bombing. On April 19, 1995, an anti-government conspiracy led by Army veteran Tim McVeigh exploded a truckbomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people.
Last month, FBI agents conducted a raid on the Hutaree militia group in southern Michigan and accused members of plotting to kill law enforcement officers.
(This version CORRECTS the spelling of building from Alfred P. Murray to Murrah.)
Washington Post
Okla. tea parties and lawmakers envision militia
By SEAN MURPHY and TIM TALLEY
The Associated Press
Monday, April 12, 2010; 9:30 PM
OKLAHOMA CITY -- Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.
Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.
"Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"
Thus far, the discussions have been exploratory. Even the proponents say they don't know how an armed force would be organized nor how a state-based militia could block federal mandates. Critics also asserted that the force could inflame extremism, and that the National Guard already provides for the state's military needs.
"Have they heard of the Oklahoma City bombing?" said Joseph Thai, a constitutional law professor at the University of Oklahoma. The state observes the 15th anniversary of the anti-government attack on Monday. Such actions could "throw fuel in the fire of radicals," he said.
But the militia talks reflect the frustration of some grass roots groups seeking new ways of fighting recent federal initiatives, such as the health reform plan, which requires all citizens to have health insurance. Over the last year, tea party groups across the country have staged rallies and pressured politicians to protest big government and demand reduced public spending.
In strongly conservative states like Oklahoma, some legislators have also discussed further action to fight federal policies, such as state legislation and lawsuits.
State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, a Republican candidate for governor who has appealed for tea party support, said supporters of a state militia have talked to him, and that he believes the citizen unit would be authorized under the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
The founding fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other," Brogdon said. "The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government."
Another lawmaker, state Rep. Charles Key, R-Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance of introducing legislation for a state-authorized militia next year.
Tea party leader J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea began soliciting interest in a state militia through his newsletter under the subject "Buy more guns, more bullets."
"It's not a far-right crazy plan or anything like that," Berry said. "This would be done with the full cooperation of the state Legislature."
State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.
Some conservative legislators in Oklahoma say talk of a militia, which would be privately recruited, armed and trained, goes too far.
"If the intent is to create a militia for disaster relief, we have the National Guard," said Sen. Steve Russell, R-Oklahoma City, a retired Army lieutenant colonel. "Anything beyond that purpose should be viewed with great concern and caution."
Democratic Gov. Brad Henry's communications director Paul Sund also discounted the militia discussion, saying the National Guard handles state emergencies and security.
Federal authorities say that radical militia groups have not emerged in Oklahoma, unlike many other states, in part because of the legacy of the Oklahoma City bombing. On April 19, 1995, an anti-government conspiracy led by Army veteran Tim McVeigh exploded a truckbomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people.
Last month, FBI agents conducted a raid on the Hutaree militia group in southern Michigan and accused members of plotting to kill law enforcement officers.
(This version CORRECTS the spelling of building from Alfred P. Murray to Murrah.)
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Thanks Thundar et al.
This may well be an idea whose time has come. Admittedly, there is potential for problems but properly constituted and operated it would be in the finest traditions of our country.
If under office of a governor such a body would require and enjoy legislated authority superseding local law enforcement. Leadership would have to be chosen and screened with utmost care. We have to face the fact that there are nuts out there.
I can almost hear the screeching now. As a Briton might say: This would certainly put the cat among the pigeons.
Thanks Thundar et al.
This may well be an idea whose time has come. Admittedly, there is potential for problems but properly constituted and operated it would be in the finest traditions of our country.
If under office of a governor such a body would require and enjoy legislated authority superseding local law enforcement. Leadership would have to be chosen and screened with utmost care. We have to face the fact that there are nuts out there.
I can almost hear the screeching now. As a Briton might say: This would certainly put the cat among the pigeons.
okboomer
Regular Member
imported post
Senator Randy Brogdan is the elected official who is spearheading this debate in the public forum, you can see some of his recent statements here .
He is also running for Governor, so take his statements for whatever you would consider they are worth in an ongoing political campaign.
Also, Sen. Brogdan's statements were geared more towards supplementing the Oklahoma National Guard while they are (currently) deployed for providing emergency services and relief during times of natural or man-made disasters. (Geesh, who would of thought there is an actual application for that Obamanisim?)
This was what was aired last night.
Senator Randy Brogdan is the elected official who is spearheading this debate in the public forum, you can see some of his recent statements here .
He is also running for Governor, so take his statements for whatever you would consider they are worth in an ongoing political campaign.
Also, Sen. Brogdan's statements were geared more towards supplementing the Oklahoma National Guard while they are (currently) deployed for providing emergency services and relief during times of natural or man-made disasters. (Geesh, who would of thought there is an actual application for that Obamanisim?)
This was what was aired last night.
imported post
Thundar wrote:
State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.
The thing is that the state militia's are constitutionally authorized, but also federally.
Under United States Code, it authorizes every able bodied man, yada, yada, and on
and on. (It's been a while since i've had to use it for anything, but it's there). So no
matter what you might believe or think YOU may be part of the militia:what:
OH, my GOD!!!!:celebrate
Thundar wrote:
State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.
The thing is that the state militia's are constitutionally authorized, but also federally.
Under United States Code, it authorizes every able bodied man, yada, yada, and on
and on. (It's been a while since i've had to use it for anything, but it's there). So no
matter what you might believe or think YOU may be part of the militia:what:
OH, my GOD!!!!:celebrate
mark edward marchiafava
Banned
imported post
No, not "every" man.
Read up on it and you'll find who's NOT eligible.
No, not "every" man.
Read up on it and you'll find who's NOT eligible.