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Thread: Any State owned property that prohibits firearm possession?

  1. #1
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    State Preemption says:

    "The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality."

    Which means the city, town, county, or municipality may not create ordinances which are more restrictive than State Law. That does not mean State property, such as State Parks, can not ban firearms, correct?

    Here's an email I received a while back regarding this topic:
    "The short answer is no—the preemption statute does not apply to state agencies. A state agency could not, however, criminalize the possession of firearms– the Legislature would have to do that. Although it’s not possible to predict how a court would view specific agency rules limiting firearms, there are certainly examples where agencies have done so. I am pasting a longer explanation from staff that provides some case history and examples that may be of interest to you."


    Does that mean a state agency could create an ordinance that would hold as much weight as a private business restricting firearms, and simply trespass you if you refuse to leave? Are there any state agencies, that any of you are aware of, that actually prohibit firearms on their property?

    Oh, and not to mention, Washington State Supreme Court is exempt from having to provide a lock box for a firearm, because it's not a Municipal or County court.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    There were a couple of Department of Licensing Agencies that were posted no firearms, and when we brought them to Olympia's attention the signs were removed. Also several liquor stores have been reported to the Liquor Licensing Board that were posted no firearms and those signs came down too.

    I would think a person would have a very good case against an agency if they were denied state funded services they would be otherwise entitled to if refusal was due to lawfully carrying a firearm.
    I say this in a respectful way, but seeing how the D.O.L. is a state agency, can't they create their own policy against firearm possession? I'm not saying I would support it, because I wouldn't, but technically they would be able to according to state law.

    I always thought Liquor stores were off limits, anyway, considering they sell alcohol, and are off limits to those under 21. I may be wrong, but that's what I thought.

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    Gotcha. I am not too familiar with liquor stores, because I don't frequent them. Good stuff to know though.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    The issue that comes into play is the general area open to the public. i.e. lobby of the DOL

    And the areas that are not generally open to the public. i.e. the offices and employee break room, etc.

    Per state law any area that is open to public accomodation is legal for carry. Areas that arefor employees only could be restricted per a 'policy'
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    Camp Murray recently released a policy prohibiting State employees from carrying firearms on Washington Military Department land/facilities. I'll see if I can get a copy to post.

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    Does the WAC basically carry as much weight as a private owned business putting up a "No Firearms on our property" sign?

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    NavyLT wrote:
    For instance, here is the WAC banning firearms in daycare centers:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.a...e=170-295-5020

    WAC 170-295-5020

    How do I maintain a safe environment?

    (1) You must maintain the building, equipment and premises in a safe manner that protects the children from injury hazards including but not limited to:

    (a) Burns (for example: Chemicals or other potentially flammable substances);

    (b) Drowning;

    (c) Choking (for example: Ropes, wires, blind cords, fences not meeting requirements);

    (d) Cuts (for example: Broken glass, sharp objects, abrasive surfaces);

    (e) Entrapments (for example: The following items must not have openings between three and one-half inches and nine inches wide: Deck and fence rails, stair rails or other equipment);

    (f) Falls from excessive heights;

    (g) Gunshots by ensuring no firearm or another weapon is on the premises;
    But does item (g) pertain to the owners/residents of said facility and not the visitors/customers?

    We would need to look at the entire WAC section, but that seems to me how it could/could be interpreted. Again, they could ask you to leave if came by to leave/pickup your kids and they noticed you were carrying.

    Gary

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    NavyLT wrote:
    For instance, here is the WAC banning firearms in daycare centers:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.a...e=170-295-5020

    WAC 170-295-5020

    How do I maintain a safe environment?

    (1) You must maintain the building, equipment and premises in a safe manner that protects the children from injury hazards including but not limited to:

    (a) Burns (for example: Chemicals or other potentially flammable substances);

    (b) Drowning;

    (c) Choking (for example: Ropes, wires, blind cords, fences not meeting requirements);

    (d) Cuts (for example: Broken glass, sharp objects, abrasive surfaces);

    (e) Entrapments (for example: The following items must not have openings between three and one-half inches and nine inches wide: Deck and fence rails, stair rails or other equipment);

    (f) Falls from excessive heights;

    (g) Gunshots by ensuring no firearm or another weapon is on the premises;
    These Day Care Centers are licensed by the State but they are private property and should be handled as any other business, correct?
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    State Property, take a look the next time you visit the Employment Security Department (Work Source) as in Yakima it is posted "No Guns!"
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    For instance, here is the WAC banning firearms in daycare centers:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.a...e=170-295-5020

    WAC 170-295-5020

    How do I maintain a safe environment?

    (1) You must maintain the building, equipment and premises in a safe manner that protects the children from injury hazards including but not limited to:

    (a) Burns (for example: Chemicals or other potentially flammable substances);

    (b) Drowning;

    (c) Choking (for example: Ropes, wires, blind cords, fences not meeting requirements);

    (d) Cuts (for example: Broken glass, sharp objects, abrasive surfaces);

    (e) Entrapments (for example: The following items must not have openings between three and one-half inches and nine inches wide: Deck and fence rails, stair rails or other equipment);

    (f) Falls from excessive heights;

    (g) Gunshots by ensuring no firearm or another weapon is on the premises;
    The WAC says:

    "(g) Gunshots by ensuring no firearm or another weapon is on the premises;"

    So, do you think they are suggesting you can get "gunshots" from "another weapon" that is not a firearm?
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    Every time I've ever entered a liquor store it was posted 21+ so I would think that is the same as the wording about being in establishments that prohibit minors. I've seen the Worksource and DMV signs banning firearms as well. Are you saying they can't do this?

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    Daath 474 wrote:
    Every time I've ever entered a liquor store it was posted 21+ so I would think that is the same as the wording about being in establishments that prohibit minors. I've seen the Worksource and DMV signs banning firearms as well. Are you saying they can't do this?
    Yes.

    It violates State Preemption and the Washington State Constitution Art 1 Sec 24 The Right to Bear Arms and does not conform to RCW 9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places -- Local laws and ordinances -- Exceptions -- Penalty.

    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    State Property, take a look the next time you visit the Employment Security Department (Work Source) as in Yakima it is posted "No Guns!"


    I think all Unemployment offices are "No Guns".

    [line]

    Every time I've ever entered a liquor store it was posted 21+ so I would think that is the same as the wording about being in establishments that prohibit minors. I've seen the Worksource and DMV signs banning firearms as well. Are you saying they can't do this?

    I have seen alot of people take their kids in the liquor storewith them.
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    Every time I've ever entered a liquor store it was posted 21+ so I would think that is the same as the wording about being in establishments that prohibit minors. I've seen the Worksource and DMV signs banning firearms as well. Are you saying they can't do this?
    Correct the signs are wrong.

    The Liquor store district manager said carry is OK and the signs DO NOT pertain to customers.

    Liquor store email here:
    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...downfile;id=49

    DMV has never been an issue, in fact there have at times been reports of moving to the front of the line...

    WorkSource corrected their signage at Lakewood and carry was not a problem after that.




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