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Thread: Bad decision by person with a CPL

  1. #1
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    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/23127937/detail.html



    [size=Road Rage Shooting Suspect Charged ][/size]
    [size=Victim Recovering In Botsford Hospital ][/size]
    POSTED: Monday, April 12, 2010

    UPDATED: 6:52 pm EDT April 13, 2010

    FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich. -- A man accused of shooting another man during what Farmington Hills police said was a road rage incident Monday on Orchard Lake Road has been charged with assault.



    The incident occurred during rush-hour traffic near 13 Mile Road.

    Police said 27-year-old Farmington Hills resident Carl Mintz was in a black Nissan Maxima, ahead of two people inside a burgundy Audi, when a dispute erupted.

    Mintz told police gestures were exchanged between himself and a man in the Audi, and that man eventually got out of the Audi and confronted him.

    Police said Mintz took out a handgun and shot 20-year-old Saad Fadhell Said in the shoulder. Said was taken to Botsford Hospital, where family members said he is expected to recover.

    The other person in the Audi was not hurt, police said.

    "I heard the sound and I said, 'Kathleen there's a gunshot,''" said witness Cathy Cosolla.

    Kevin Wildey said he also heard the exchange.

    “[The shooting suspect ] said, ‘He was gonna spit on my face so I shot him,’” said Wildey, who helped the victim until police arrived.



    "They were probably both wrong," said Farmington Hills Police Chief Chuck Nebus. "The issue is the use of excessive force. You can't shoot someone because you're involved in a traffic altercation with them."

    Police said Mintz’s gun is registered and he had a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

    Police said Mintz called 911 shortly after the shooting and waited until officers arrived.

    He is charged with assault with intent to do great bodily harm less than murder and with felony firearm. Representing himself, he pleaded not guilty at his arraignment Tuesday and his bail was set at $50,000. He must also surrender his driver's license, ccw permit and any guns in his possession.

    "I would like to make for the record that it's not like I wanted to shoot the guy, but they got out of the car and they scared me," Mintz told the court. He was cut off by the judge who said he should seek legal counsel before making any other statements.

    He is scheduled to be back in court April 19.

    Nebus said the bottom line is for drivers not to aggravate each other.

    "Don't make gestures, don't make comments, don't stare, don't chase, don't blink lights, just ignore it," he said. "If you cant, if it's serious enough, dial 911 and ask for the police to respond."



  2. #2
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    I'm curious how a jury would try that case were the guy to start spitting and said he had AIDS...
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    malignity wrote:
    I'm curious how a jury would try that case were the guy to start spitting and said he had AIDS...

    http://michiganmessenger.com/30306/h...egal-precedent

    Terrorism count added to charges

    Galen said he had no idea when he arrived in court on Nov. 2 that he was going to be staring down a terrorism charge for his client.

    “The prosecutor wished to adjourn to think about additional charges,” Galen said. But Galen said his client had a right to face his charges within 14 days, and District Court Judge Linda Davis agreed that there should be no delay in additional charges.

    As a result, Galen said, the prosecutor received a fax which included the possession or use of a harmful device charge as well as the Michigan Court of Appeals ruling in People v. Antoine Deshaw Odom. That ruling found that HIV-infected blood was a “harmful biological substance,” under Michigan law and upheld additional prison time for an inmate who spit bloody saliva at guards during a fight at a Jackson area state prison. The inmate was infected with both HIV and Hepatitis B, although the court was mute on whether Hepatitis B-infected blood was also a “harmful biological substance.”

    “harmful biological substance" See below:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bme...e=mcl-750-200i


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    There was a similar incident in February as well:

    http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...detroit_d.html

    I haven't heard anything by way of follow up on this incident; however, so as far as I can tell, no charges were filed.

    Did the prosecutor decide this was a justified self-defense shoot?

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    This is the most recent article I could find. All the other articles I came across echo this one where the shooter was released pending further investigation:

    http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/...0007564861.txt

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    malignity wrote:
    I'm curious how a jury would try that case were the guy to start spitting and said he had AIDS...
    Do we know how big if is ?

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    If someone robs a store with a starter pistol or an airsoft gun they can be charged with a firearm related crime, even though the device they used was harmless but the store employees dont know. How is it any different to be spit upon by someone who potentially has HIV/HEP/ebola?

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    maahes wrote:
    If someone robs a store with a starter pistol or an airsoft gun they can be charged with a firearm related crime, even though the device they used was harmless but the store employees dont know. How is it any different to be spit upon by someone who potentially has HIV/HEP/ebola?
    Do we have proof of spit or attempt thinking of spit ?

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    If someone brings a loaded firearm to rob a bank, then its doubtless that he/she is thinking about firing it.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    If someone brings a loaded firearm to rob a bank, then its doubtless that he/she is thinking about firing it.
    Correct does not pertain to thinking of spit.

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    taxwhat wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    If someone brings a loaded firearm to rob a bank, then its doubtless that he/she is thinking about firing it.
    Correct does not pertain to thinking of spit.
    However if the gun is UNloaded, you may still assume the robber means you harm and defend yourself. With no way of knowing that a person has or doesn't have AIDS, I would think you should be able to defend yourself from a potentially deadly attack.

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    Leader wrote:
    taxwhat wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    If someone brings a loaded firearm to rob a bank, then its doubtless that he/she is thinking about firing it.
    Correct does not pertain to thinking of spit.
    However if the gun is UNloaded, you may still assume the robber means you harm and defend yourself. With no way of knowing that a person has or doesn't have AIDS, I would think you should be able to defend yourself from a potentially deadly attack.
    Question ; What will the 12 jurors say ?Reasonable person ? Spit and/or thinking of spit ,that is the ???

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    “[The shooting suspect ] said, ‘He was gonna spit on my face so I shot him,’” said Wildey, who helped the victim until police arrived.

    Police said Mintz called 911 shortly after the shooting and waited until officers arrived.

    "I would like to make for the record that it's not like I wanted to shoot the guy, but they got out of the car and they scared me," Mintz told the court.
    This guy is going to learn the hard way that you need to SHUT UP until you speak with a lawyer. A good lawyer MAY have been able to use the facts of the case to justify the shooting but his mouth has probably screwed him.

    He could have "feared for his life" since the other guy got out of the car and came after him. This all depends on how the immediacy, intent and ability of the threat is presented. The fact that he was the one that called the police and helped the victim would have helped him a bit too.

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    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    “[The shooting suspect] said, ‘He was gonna spit on my face so I shot him,’” said Wildey, who helped the victim until police arrived.

    Police said Mintz called 911 shortly after the shooting and waited until officers arrived.

    "I would like to make for the record that it's not like I wanted to shoot the guy, but they got out of the car and they scared me," Mintz told the court.
    This guy is going to learn the hard way that you need to SHUT UP until you speak with a lawyer. A good lawyer MAY have been able to use the facts of the case to justify the shooting but his mouth has probably screwed him.

    He could have "feared for his life" since the other guy got out of the car and came after him. This all depends on how the immediacy, intent and ability of the threat is presented. The fact that he was the one that called the police and helped the victim would have helped him a bit too.
    Yep shutting the pie hole is the best advise I can give!

    Also remember that nothing you say to the police can help you but it can all hurt you.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    maahes wrote:
    If someone robs a store with a starter pistol or an airsoft gun they can be charged with a firearm related crime, even though the device they used was harmless but the store employees dont know. How is it any different to be spit upon by someone who potentially has HIV/HEP/ebola?
    One sees in the media frequent reporting of people infected with life-endangering diseases attempting tospitor biteto infect the victims of their assaults. If I were on a jury, and a defendant charged with using excessive force on a spitting or biting attackerdemonstratedthat:

    • The attacker was imminently about toor did spit onor bite him.
    • Hebelieves thatmany attacks involvingspitting or biting are attempts to infect others with life-endangering diseases.
    • He either knewhis attacker is infected with a life-endangering disease, or did not know whether or not his attacker is so infected.
    • And, based on the above, knew or feared that the spitting or biting was being attempted or doneon himintentionally by a person possibly infected with a life-endangering disease.
    • He used what he believed to be the necessaryforce to stop the attack.
    I would not vote to convict such a defendant demonstrating, to my satisfaction that he is being truthful,the above.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Also remember that nothing you say to the police can help you but it can all hurt you.
    Yeah, unfortunately people think they can talk their way out of being arrested.

    Another misconception is that when you are guilty it is better to be honest and fess up to get leniency. The problem is when you confess before an agreement is made there is no obligation for the DA to be lenient.

    I had a family member who was guilty and just blabbed and blabbed believing the same thing. He got the book thrown at him.

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    I just found out that my boss knows this guy... he used to work here :?

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