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Thread: Hollow points or FMJ rounds?

  1. #1
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    Which do you carry for self defense, and why?

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    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    HP's release all the energy in the body. FMJ can and will pass through the body still holding on to some of it's energy. And by passing through the body, puts innocent bystanders at risk. HP's will create a larger wound track thus inflecting more damage and having a greater "knock down" power.

    ETA: I carry Speer Gold Dot. Rumor has it, that's what the local LEO's carry.
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    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    Lead, it isn't very fast but its accurate. It doesn't have explosive results but beats the heck out of a small hole in/small hole out. 158 gr LSWC are my choice but will take LRN if thats all I have on hand without feeling bad about it. No Gee Whizz super slamtastic bullets in my bullet locker.
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  4. #4
    McX
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    from what i was taught; be innocent of instigation, hollow points show a hostile intent, standard load, standard round shows a defensive posture.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    from what i was taught; be innocent of instigation, hollow points show a hostile intent, standard load, standard round shows a defensive posture.
    Whoever told you that didn't do you any favors. I would not take this advice to anything other than the dust bin.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    McX wrote:
    from what i was taught; be innocent of instigation, hollow points show a hostile intent, standard load, standard round shows a defensive posture.
    Only thing when I think FMJ, is hostile to bystanders.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    HP
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    I carry a .380 and I've been told by multiple people (not just schmoe's on the street) that JHP in .380 is pointless, especially in heavier clothing weather. There's not enough force behind a .380 to mushroom the bullet in JHP so all it does is collect fabric from passing through the material and using a large amount of energy just passing through the clothing that it wouldn't lose with FMJ. It's a pretty overwhelming consensus that some rounds (.380 in particular) should always be FMJ. You're NOT going to overpenetrate with a .380! Well, maybe if it's Calista Flockhart mugging you...

    Having said that, I did a little research of my own (a Google search!) and found this:

    http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1523

    Again, this is just the .380 I'm speaking about. However, with the lack of energy in a .380 round, perhaps there really is some legitimate debate. Does anybody think that thicker clothing (winter time) would prevent a JHP .380 round from doing its duty and stopping the threat?

    To the OP: What caliber are you inquiring about?

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    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    UtahJarhead wrote:
    I carry a .380 and I've been told by multiple people (not just schmoe's on the street) that JHP in .380 is pointless, especially in heavier clothing weather.* There's not enough force behind a .380 to mushroom the bullet in JHP so all it does is collect fabric from passing through the material and using a large amount of energy just passing through the clothing that it wouldn't lose with FMJ.* It's a pretty overwhelming consensus that some rounds (.380 in particular) should always be FMJ.* You're NOT going to overpenetrate with a .380!*
    And thats why I carry a .40
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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    for all intent.....the .380 is useless. sorry:?
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    I wouldn't say that a .380 is useless, but I do consider it to be a close-contact weapon Same with my .22BUG that I carry Stingers in ... weapon of last resort and close contact.

    But, with that said, if I need a client to carry due to stalking or violent ex, I provide the .380 ... small enough for most women who are unfamiliar with guns to shoot and not big enough to intimidate them. (I am a PI and do protection so I have a different objective with certain guns at times.) DD carries the .380 w/JHPmost of the time. I carry a 9mm w/JHPmost of the time, but step up to a .45 w/ballwhen in the metro and here's the latest reason why)

    As for .380 stopping power, well, enough rounds will stop most things. The question is whether you will have enough time to deliver the amount of rounds necessary to stop the threat. Heck, even a .45 to the chest is not enough to stop a big man on drugs ... but as far as a run-of-the-mill robber, it should be enough protection as you are basically dealing with a coward.

    When it is winter time, and folks are in leather coats and heavy winter clothing, I will change all out to ball ammo for penetration.
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    okboomer wrote:
    I wouldn't say that a .380 is useless, but I do consider it to be a close-contact weapon Same with my .22BUG that I carry Stingers in ... weapon of last resort and close contact.

    But, with that said, if I need a client to carry due to stalking or violent ex, I provide the .380 ... small enough for most women who are unfamiliar with guns to shoot and not big enough to intimidate them. (I am a PI and do protection so I have a different objective with certain guns at times.) DD carries the .380 w/JHPmost of the time. I carry a 9mm w/JHPmost of the time, but step up to a .45 w/ballwhen in the metro and here's the latest reason why)

    As for .380 stopping power, well, enough rounds will stop most things. The question is whether you will have enough time to deliver the amount of rounds necessary to stop the threat. Heck, even a .45 to the chest is not enough to stop a big man on drugs ... but as far as a run-of-the-mill robber, it should be enough protection as you are basically dealing with a coward.

    When it is winter time, and folks are in leather coats and heavy winter clothing, I will change all out to ball ammo for penetration.
    How much of a difference does heavy clothing make? Obviously with more layers, you'll be more protected, but when compared to the velocity of the round coming at you, is it really enough to make a difference?

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    To many variables to give a definitive answer but short answer is yes it makes a difference. The type of material, is it tight or loose on the body, Is it light weight or winter weight, is it old school, (flannel shirt) vs new school (Gore-Tex). Leather jacket, felt, wool, nylon. Every shoot is different, there is no one rule how a bullet will act. How many stories have you read about a bullet being stopped by a badge, a cigarrette case, even the angle the bullet enters could determine how much material affects the round before it enters flesh. You are shooting what, 70 grains at 1200 fps or a 100 grain bullet at 850 fps. Not a lot of energy in that tiny bullet and it sheds fast. Hundred years ago when I was teaching marksmanship it was known as a belly gun, meaning belly to belly. Ammo is better now but it's still a tiny bullet and its not moving much faster than a 45 ACP but with only a third of the mass. Laws of physics will not be denied.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    from what i was taught; be innocent of instigation, hollow points show a hostile intent, standard load, standard round shows a defensive posture.
    How does SHOOTING somebody show anything BUT "hostile intent"?

    I'll take an impression of "hostile intent" to getting a through and through and killing an innocent toddler any day.

    I'll defend a good shoot any day. There's NO defense to an accidental shooting. You probably won't go to jail, but you'll lose your behind in civil court.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    I use Starfire JHPs of the 180gr .40 variety. I want to know that if I have a reason to shoot someone, it's gonna be a nasty hole to patch up, if they survive long enough to make it to a trauma center.

    Shoot to kill, because killing is the surest way to ensure the offender is no longer a threat. It also ensures that there is only one story that can be told; yours.

    Two in the chest, one in the head.
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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I carry HP in one magazine (the one in my sidearm), and FMJ in the other. Don't really know why:shock:

    As for concern over bystanders, aren't we supposed to be aware of our surroundings and if necessary only fire when the shot is clear? Kinda like LEO's?


    If theres a bunch of poeple behind the intended target you dont fire.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Nevada carrier wrote:
    I use Starfire JHPs of the 180gr .40 variety. I want to know that if I have a reason to shoot someone, it's gonna be a nasty hole to patch up, if they survive long enough to make it to a trauma center.

    Shoot to kill, because killing is the surest way to ensure the offender is no longer a threat. It also ensures that there is only one story that can be told; yours.

    Two in the chest, one in the head.
    I know it has been said a number of times here, but it does some good to repeat. Saying "shoot to kill"may not be the smartest way to characterise your intent. I know lots of people prefer to say "shoot to stop the threat." Sometimes, stopping the threat involvesa fatal shot, sometimes not.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    It is also said that never point your gun at something you dont intent to destroy.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    The precepts of gun safety - ALL OF THEM - are LOADED, MUZZLE, TRIGGER & TARGET.

    LOADED - all guns are LOADED until they are not.

    MUZZLE - cover with the MUZZLE only that which would be destroyed.

    TRIGGER - keep your finger off the TRIGGER. Keep YOUR finger off the TRIGGER.

    TARGET - know your TARGET and what is beyond.

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    I wouldn't call the .380 useless... just for the record,the .22lr and .380 have killed more people than any other round...

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    UtahJarhead wrote:
    I carry a .380 and I've been told by multiple people (not just schmoe's on the street) that JHP in .380 is pointless, especially in heavier clothing weather. There's not enough force behind a .380 to mushroom the bullet in JHP so all it does is collect fabric from passing through the material and using a large amount of energy just passing through the clothing that it wouldn't lose with FMJ. It's a pretty overwhelming consensus that some rounds (.380 in particular) should always be FMJ. You're NOT going to overpenetrate with a .380! Well, maybe if it's Calista Flockhart mugging you...

    Having said that, I did a little research of my own (a Google search!) and found this:

    http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1523

    Again, this is just the .380 I'm speaking about. However, with the lack of energy in a .380 round, perhaps there really is some legitimate debate. Does anybody think that thicker clothing (winter time) would prevent a JHP .380 round from doing its duty and stopping the threat?

    To the OP: What caliber are you inquiring about?
    I use FMJ in my .380, and use JHP in all other handguns

  22. #22
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    at sufficient speed any metal projectile regardless of size can be lethal. never trick yourself into thinking there are any rounds less dangerous than another.
    Nevada Campus Carry: The Movement Continues
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    YoZUpZ:

    Rounds don't kill people. People kill people. :P

    Your point is well-taken. I just hadda....

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    The precepts of gun safety - ALL OF THEM - are LOADED, MUZZLE, TRIGGER & TARGET.

    LOADED - all guns are LOADED until they are not.

    MUZZLE - cover with the MUZZLE only that which would be destroyed.

    TRIGGER - keep your finger off the TRIGGER. Keep YOUR finger off the TRIGGER.

    TARGET - know your TARGET and what is beyond.
    I think the knowing what is beyond your target is the most difficult one for many people, especially when put in the heat of the moment, and faced with imminent danger. I guarantee a lot of people aren't going to be immediately concerned with who or what is behind their target if they truly feel they're about to be seriously hurt or killed. Not really sure how a person would train for that sort of thing.

  25. #25
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    As a LEO in training, you should be going through firearm training.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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