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Thread: Odd OC incident in Cabela's (video)

  1. #1
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Here is a video I put together from an odd OC incident from Cabela's in Hazelwood MO. Sorry I didn't have cameras running during the whole thing. My camera man was just to shocked to remember to hit record.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q47nVz0YC5M

    Anyquestions. Feel free to ask.

    Doc

  2. #2
    Centurion
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    Interesting video. Thanks for posting it.

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    I have open carried in that store without incident. If I recall correctly the sign at the entrance said something along the lines of "Firearms must be checked and locked. This applies to firearms being brought in for service or sale and does not apply to lawfully carried firearms by permit holders"

    My quote is not verbatim and I was there a few months ago, but its something along those lines.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    What would have happened if you were to say, "Sure!"

    Then go outside and receive your firearm, load it, reholster........

    ......then follow the employee back into the store to continue shopping?

  5. #5
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that Cabela's corporate policy is that only LEO's can open carry. But per the4 employee'sand 3 managers I got passed through. Not all are aware of their own policy. One said OC is fine/One said OC is fine but they need to put a trigger lock on it at the door/One said they allow no OC. They all treated me nicely and I don't think they actively discourage OC, but in my case I purposely brought the situation to them and they had to deal with it.

    Doc

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    I would have never let them take my gun. You can make sure it fits yourself, just do it discrettly.I know they are uptight pussies and all but so what.

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    You should have asked for them to test the holster with a store gun OR brought your gun into the store empty. It looks like you use an Uncle Mike's holster, so I can see why your looking for another.



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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    +1 for using one of their guns to test fit the holster. unless you carry something uncommon i would have to bet that they have your model in the case.


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    My intentions wereto beopen and nonchalant in my actions. If I want to be sneaky and feel I had to hide infear for wanting to try an accessory for my firearm. I would have just gone to the dressing room and checked it there if I had the desire to play spy games.I OC without guilt or shame. There for I shall not hide my actions.

    I consider myself an OC activist. I OC to help bring about a change in attitude that guns are not an evil danger, but just a self defense tool that some people choose to carry. The best way I can find to achieve this is by OCing in a calm and casual way. Thisexposes the public to an option that they unknowingly have and it should help devilifyguns. The media and liberals havethe publicbelieving that just the presents of a gun makes fora dangerous situation.You don't have to agree with the way I OC but at least now you should understand it.

    Doc

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    Somewhere in the forum is a pdf from Cabelas corporate stating open carry is allowed by anyone legal to do so. Not just leo. I think the op was specifically trying to test and was hoping for a good recording to post. The result was kinda strange though.

    I also have checked holster fit using one of Cabelas handguns off the rack.
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Recently I shopped in Cabela's in Washington for 5 hours and I OC'd the entire time.

    However, I would say this about your trip. Poor etiquette and poor respect for Cabela's.

    If you are going in to any store to find a holster or any accessory for your firearm I would suggest that that firearm enter the property owners premises via a storage box. The other alternatives are to see if they have a display of your firearm and can try it out for you at the counter. Or, simply buy the item and try it out yourself in the car, if it does not fit then return the item.

    Firearms that are already in a holster should NEVER be removed from that holster in public except for the purpose of self defense! You put everyone in a very awkward position.



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    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    gogodawgs,

    As this is a forum so I'm sure you believe your unfounded opinion matters, But if you have any interest in fact I will give you those. I didn't remove my gun from my holster. The store's manager did. If he hadsuggested tome a discrete alliterative. Then I would have taken it thereand that would be the end of it. He chose to "with my consent" remove my gun from my holster (with his own hand) test the gun into the holster himself in his office in the gun library then have his employee carry it out. As it may sound odd to you(sarcasm implied here)they generally don't have my gun in stock(a Russian TT-33 or one of it's clones the Tokagypt 58 or Tokarev Model 213), go figure.Would you careto make any other assumptions like I was drunk or maybe mentally unfit?

    Doc

    P.S. I have a CC license so I suppose I can OC into their store(per the pic you posted)

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    sohighlyunlikely wrote:
    gogodawgs,

    As this is a forum so I'm sure you believe your unfounded opinion matters, But if you have any interest in fact I will give you those. I didn't remove my gun from my holster. The store's manager did. If he hadsuggested tome a discrete alliterative. Then I would have taken it thereand that would be the end of it. He chose to "with my consent" remove my gun from my holster (with his own hand) test the gun into the holster himself in his office in the gun library then have his employee carry it out. As it may sound odd to you(sarcasm implied here)they generally don't have my gun in stock(a Russian TT-33 or one of it's clones the Tokagypt 58 or Tokarev Model 213), go figure.Would you careto make any other assumptions like I was drunk or maybe mentally unfit?

    Doc

    P.S. I have a CC license so I suppose I can OC into their store(per the pic you posted)


    I don't think my opinion matters. Obviously the opinion of the private property owner does matter. By taking your firearm in an open manner into their store you limited the choices that were available, take some ownership of your actions. You also knew in advance that your firearm was rare and would need to be fitted, again take responsibility for your actions. You allowed the store manager to un-holster the firearm, take responsibility for your actions.

    When entering anothers property, firearm owners, and especially Open Carry advocates must take greater responsibility for our actions and choices. We are ambassadors for others, whether you agree or not.

    As far as the sign, that is of the local Cabela's, I read it to be that if you are following the law (OC is legal and CC is legal with a CPL...and I have a CPL) then as long as a firearm legally brought into the store remains in its holster then I am allowed. If I am bringing a firearm in for 'repair' or 'service' or 'trade' the it needs to be checked with the property owner. This is for safety as if I was bringing my firearm in to fit a holster ('service') then it is implicitly going to be HANDLED in a public setting. I will show the property owner that respect.

    Please don't insult me, I never insinuated anything like you described.


    Did you have permission to video record in their store?

    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    gogodawgs,

    I do not wish to bicker with you. I do not believe it is productive to the cause. We will have to agree to disagree. Though it is my opinion that my actions were reasonable. I accept that you believe my actions to be careless. Thank you for reading the facts as I have presented them to you, and I wish you good-day

    Doc

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    sohighlyunlikely wrote:
    gogodawgs,

    I do not wish to bicker with you. I do not believe it is productive to the cause. We will have to agree to disagree. Though it is my opinion that my actions were not unreasonable. I accept that you believe my actions to be careless. Thank you for reading the facts as I have presented them to you, and I wish you good-day

    Doc
    Again,

    You have put words into my mouth. I do not believe what you did was careless...did I say that...no. Learning etiquette is necessary in the OC movement, do you disagree?

    Welcome to OCDO, just be prepared to defend yourself, your actions and your choices. You are on the front lines, it is a great battle worth fighting for and we will win. I noticed you are prepared with video and that is great. (I carry an audio recorder) However, don't be one of the guys that are always looking for conflict, and there are plenty. Go about your daily life just as you would concealed or unarmed, but be prepared for interaction with the public and LEO. It will be your job to educate and represent in the most positive way OCers. I mean you know ill will my friend, but be open to others, their ideas, their experiences and you will be rewarded.

    If you notice and I am from Washington and the Washington forum is strong. Second only to Virginia in posts. I have learned a great deal from reading other posts and understanding how I am viewed. Everyone on this board is strong willed and has strong opinions, I am sure you do as well. I hope that Missouri grows and is strong and that you help lead that movement! It will only benefit all of us in the long run.
    Live Free or Die!

  16. #16
    Regular Member Big Boy's Avatar
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    I've got to be honest I went into the Independence Bass Pro doing the same thing.

    Took my XD in there, found the holster I wanted, and went to the counter and asked if I could try my gun in it for fit.

    He said "sure" and then said "as long as you're not pulling a gun out and putting it in there." Which seemed confusing to me at the time, and I said, "Ok do you have this model?" Happens that they didn't. "He then stated that some people kind of freak out when they see guns." To which I replied "yeah some do, I run into that sometimes because I OC" He kind of freaked out just very mildly for a brief second and said "I don't know if you can do that here" He hadn't even noticed I was OC'ing until I said that.

    They ended up taking me into the first room of the shooting range they have right next to the gun counter. I asked if it was ok, unholstered my firearm, cleared it, and attempted to hand it to the worker with the slide locked back. This is a different guy from the first, and he seemed very nonchalant about it and said "Nah, go ahead." So I released the slide and tried the fit into the holster. Fit great. Loaded back up, put the gun in the original holster on my hip and proceeded to check out.

    My girlfriend was with my the whole time (except for in the gun room). I had an employee with a radio following me for a while, but it was on a rather long straight path, and kept walking past when I stepped into the check out line. So I don't know if he was really following me or not. But out of anybody who would have gotten the best look at my firearm on my hip that day, it would have been him, and he seemed fine with it.

  17. #17
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    Cabelas policy is to allow open carry where legal just like conceal carry, but no gun handling.

    It should not be surprizing that unholstered firearms are cleared and secured by store employees.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Could do without the music background. When I buy a holster, I take it to the car and try it out. If it doesn't fit, I take it back. But then I generally CC in stores, unless they know me. And I would never hand over my weapon to a store employee I didn't know personally.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    I would have to agree that your carry weapon should never be drawn unless needed. The only other times it should be handled is when really, really needed...like putting in the lockbox as req'd by law to enter restricted areas of the courhouse as in WA or other such circumstances.

    Otherwise, take it unloaded and in a case to get fitted for that shiny sleek new holster, get a trigger job or just a day at the gunsmith getting a physicalon your baby.

    Gary




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    Hello There Guys:

    Matt at Sovereign Arms LLC in St. Louis, MO. I am the owner of our store and we are very pro open carry in the store. What I will not allow is for anyone to unholster or uncase a firearm inside the store without staff assistance.

    We have had several incidents in the store where people have unholstered loaded firearms without asking or giving any fore warning; we had one Friday of last week. A gentleman comes in whom I have seen in our store several times. He is open carrying... again not a problem. We have huge signs on both doors as you enter the store. These are the only signs on the doors and they state" DO NOT uncase or unholster any firearms without staff assistance." Pretty clear and concise.

    The man pulls out his loaded firearm ( his finger was outside the trigger guard) and begins to "show" it to one of our instructors behind the counter. The instructor immediately tells the man to holster the firearm and repeats herself three or four times very loudly. Instead of holstering the firearm the man begins to start taking out the magazine at which time he takes out the magazine and hands it to my employee who is still telling him to holster the firearm. He finally holstered the firearm when I came over and told him to holster it. He then took it back out and swept my employee when she handed his magazine back to him. I was not sure if there was a round in the chamber or not, however I told him to never draw his firearm out of the holster in the store again like that.

    We have no idea who might pull out a firearm to rob us, or just using poor muzzle direction and or having a negligent discharge, might shoot one of us or another patron in the store. Whipping out a loaded firearm is absolutely about the worst action any gun owner could do inside a gun store. ( I did not see you do this at all in your video) However, there is absolutely NO reason for a client to draw the firearm out of the holster inside a gun store other than in selfdefense.

    If a client comes into our store OC/ccw and wants to see if a firearm fits in a holster, our protocol is to ask the client if they can remove the holster and firearm together without drawing out the firearm. If so.. no problem. Our staff will take the holstered firearm behind the counter; and unholster it using proper muzzle direction; then safely unload the firearm, double verify it is unloaded with another staff member. We then leave the ammunition and holster secured behind the counter and then assist the client in finding the most effective holster for their firearm.

    After we have satisfied the needs of our client and they have checked out, I will normally holster their firearm for them( unloaded) and hand their holster, magazine, and any cartridge left over, and politely ask them to reload when they return to their vehicle.

    I could not tell from the video if the firearm was loaded ( chambered or not) What I saw in the video when you first walked into Cabella's would not have been a problem in our store. However, had you unholstered the firearm without checking with us first, that could quickly turn into a disaster.

    I hope that gives a good perspective from the side of the store owner. Again we are VERY pro open carry, I open carry everywhere I legally can and we are also very concerned with safety in our store.

    SOVEREIGN ARMS LLC is a licensed federal firearms dealer/Sig Sauer Direct/Glock/Springfield Armory stocking dealer/Cold Steel knive/sword distributor/Night Force Scopes distributor/TASER INTERNATIONAL/ distributor/ St. Louis' largest LWRC Distributor/ MO/FL CCW instructors NRA PPITH/PPOTH instructors. We have an indoor pistol range on sight. E commerce store and retail store shipping nationwide firearms/ accessories/ammunition. WWW.SOVEREIGNARMS.COM

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    Hello Sir:

    I posted a reply to the video and read your post. My name is Matt and I am the owner of Sovereign Arms LLC St. Louis, MO.

    I respect your statement, and I had a gentleman in our store once who wanted to pull out a loaded firearm to check a holster fit. He asked if he could first, and when I asked him if he could hand me his entire firearm in the holster so I could clear it he refused. I then asked if he would take it outside to his vehicle, unload it, and bring it back inside if I gave him a pistol rug or could he open the action take out the mag and point the pistol straight up in the air. Again he refused. I told him that is the only way you are going to be allowed to bring the firearm in the store. He decided to leave. I would rather lose a holster sale than take the chance of someone being shot in our store . We are VERY pro open carry. However gun safety should be the absolute highest regard of every firearms owner. Loaded firearms can be unholstered and uncased inside the range inside the booth; or in an emergency need to defend oneself. It is extremely problematic for anyone to pull out a loaded firearm in a public place.

    We have even had LEOs come in our store and do it. NO excuse for anyone. It's just better to be safe. We don't know who is pulling out loaded firearms and or what there intent is. I hope that can help you see a different perspective and I hope that makes sense. Sincerely,

  22. #22
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Thank You Matt of SOVEREIGN ARMS LLC,

    Your policy is exactly what I was expecting a store who sells guns to have. I brought the gun in unloaded. I let them know that. I approached them on the easiest way to fit check the holster. I had no problem with the managerunholstering it and safety checking it in his office forhimself even. It was the fact the manager would not let it be re-holstered till I was out on the sidewalk outside. I found that odd and uncalled for. I never even touched my gun while in their store. IMO It makes no sense to me that I caught any flack for my actions.

    Doc

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    I would have not had a problem handing the firearm back to you either way. The problem would be, in a public venue, letting the client reload the firearm in store. I have been next to 1000's of clients/students in the CCW classes we teach, and when someone racks the slide and chamber's a round, I have seen over and over people have their finger on the trigger. In store reloading has the high probability of someone getting hurt or killed. That is why I put these procedures in place.

    Thanks for the PM, and we need and appreciate YOUR referrals!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Big Boy's Avatar
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    I agree not in public. I had no problem stepping back into a room. If I wanted to do it in front of everybody I would have just done it without asking.

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    Taking that approach without asking would not go over in our store very well at all. We get very excited when people take any liberty outside our protocols in our own store. It's dangerous and disrespectful. Maybe I misunderstood your comment about just doing it without asking, however if someone pulls out a firearm without assistance in our store and doesn't comply with staff to immediately reholster or re case the firearm; there is a high probability we would engage that individual with a taser or our own loaded firearm. The client could have no ill intention whatsoever, yet we have no idea. Again it would be very dangerous and disrespectful to the business and other clients to ever pull out a firearm loaded or unloaded with out checking with the staff of that facility first.

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