Oathkeepers Pull Out of Restore The Constitution Rally

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Thundar wrote:

OK, so we have competing theories as to why the Oath-keepers have pulled out of the event.

The core issue remains the same. Shouldopen carriers abandon the event because there may be repercussions brought on by bad press and linkage to aspeaker that some see asfomentingdelinquent activities?

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IMO: No. Each individual person should make his own decision which rallies to attend. Each individual should make his own decision whether to OC or not--and when.

However, each organization, such as OCDO or OK, should make its own decision which rallies to support or not to support officially and which rallies it will encourage its members to attend or not attend.

I couldn't anyway, but I would have followed John and Mike's advice regarding attending this event for precisely the reasons they outlined.

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The biggest problem with many of the replies in this thread is that, some how, if you OC, you are OCDO... just like if you own a gun you are NRA.

It's absurd. Aside from other organizations being out there, do some of you really think that the entire world revolves around OCDO/NRA or whatever other singular group you try and paint people as a part of?

There is a world out side of OCDO or NRA or RNC or tea party or whatever.

Many of you people are furthering the idiotic stereotypes you bash liberals for in other threads.

Honestly, OCDO was very open minded and not some sort of all inclusive click not too long ago. What happened?
:shock:
eta, removed the wrong quote

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Prometheus wrote:

The biggest problem with many of the replies in this thread is that, some how, if you OC, you are OCDO... just like if you own a gun you are NRA.

It's absurd. Aside from other organizations being out there, do some of you really think that the entire world revolves around OCDO/NRA or whatever other singular group you try and paint people as a part of?

There is a world out side of OCDO or NRA or RNC or tea party or whatever.

Many of you people are furthering the idiotic stereotypes you bash liberals for in other threads.

Honestly, OCDO was very open minded and not some sort of all inclusive click not too long ago. What happened?
:shock:

eye95 wrote:

Thundar wrote:

OK, so we have competing theories as to why the Oath-keepers have pulled out of the event.

The core issue remains the same. Shouldopen carriers abandon the event because there may be repercussions brought on by bad press and linkage to aspeaker that some see asfomentingdelinquent activities?

Click to expand...

IMO: No. Each individual person should make his own decision which rallies to attend. Each individual should make his own decision whether to OC or not--and when.

However, each organization, such as OCDO or OK, should make its own decision which rallies to support or not to support officially and which rallies it will encourage its members to attend or not attend.

I couldn't anyway, but I would have followed John and Mike's advice regarding attending this event for precisely the reasons they outlined.

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I don't see that. More importantly, I don't see that in my post. My post is a celebration of freedom of choice and advocacy for making wise choices.

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eye95, It grabbed the wrong quote when I replied, it wasn't in regard to that specific quote.

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I have been following this story and writing about this on another forum. I have been talking to people and emailing about them about this too.

I don't care for the Mike V. man due to many reasons - reading him on and off and hearing his 'comments' on the news. I do not know him personally. I happen to think that he might be someone else than what he portrays to be if you get my drift. Cointelpro, an A.P., a regular person, a patsy, MK Ultra, a trouble maker, etc.?! Who really knows? Not me. Some people like him and some do not. I have a BAD feeling in my gut about him. I read him on and off as I stated on another forum recently because his website was given to me by a fellow gun man. I do NOT think that he should have advocated destruction of public property in breaking those politicians windows and other dung. I do NOT advocate destruction of public or private property either.

I believe in the God given and/or natural right to self defense. I believe that our Founding Fathers had a CLUE and their writings still mean something! I believe that what they did still means something in THIS day and age when it comes to our freedoms.

I am VERY disappointed that the O.K. dropped out of one march/event and will only go to the other pro gun one. I think that they are VERY concerned about 'an event happening' - not a good one, Cointelpro, an agent provocateur, a nut job, a anti gunner, a bad person doing something VERY stupid and WRONG.

They could be backing out due to PUBLICITY and bad press from the likes of the anti gun groups and phony civil rights groups.

They could be backing out because they don't have the courage to stand up and show up at BOTH events. So because they had some super private, INSIDE information - they backed out. IT is on their website where you can read it. The public section.

They had to make the call and even though I do not agree with it - it is THEIR GROUP and their decision to make NOT mine. If I was in the O.K. Group - I would have the right to voice my opinion some more.

I am not an Oath Keeper. I do know one OK and spoke to him on the telephone the other night. I did read the dung from the SPLC and ADL websites plus the OTHER anti gun sites about lumping all groups and people into a BAD group and bad people. UGH. I did READ the article in the STARS and STRIPES about the military associated with 'hate groups'. The creeps with the SPLC and ADL group many pro gun groups including the O.K. head man into a HATE GROUP. I kid you NOT! I know it is wrong but that is what they did. The STARS and STRIPES ARTICLE even had the SPLC man's comments in their online NEWSPAPER! Really - I read it the other day. The O.K. man told me about it and it is on the public section about the S&S LINK. I am a remarried, decorated Vietnam Veteran's widow, etc. and I think that some of those people who go on about some groups do not know what they are talking about - they claim one thing but smear anything that 'they don't like'. It is their M. O. The SPLC wrote a lot of nasty things about pro gun people including the O.K. founder and his group. The SPLC man was on Bill O.R. - Faux Fox News and on CNN about the OK man and disarming citizens in certain times. The interview can still be found on You Tube, I think, and old BILL O.R. AGREED with the SPLC man about those gun issues. His words/his face - I kid you not! Heck, the SPLC even hates RON PAUL and called that good, decent, honorable and peaceful man a 'hater'! That group is so biased it is really quite sad. As bad as the ADL and Brady Bunch in my opinion.

I happen to think that there is nothing wrong with being 'anti government' in many things as in being Anti big, bloated, evil, high tax, warmongering, Nanny State, anti tyrant, anti King as in American Revolution days, etc. government. I do not think that the m word aka Militia is a bad word either. More demonizing done as we all know. Good and bad in them too. Disclaimer: I do not belong to any official militia and I am in one of my own as in Me, Myself and I! I am a peaceful, honest GUN LADY. I do belong to the Montana Shooting Sports Association. I am a proud member there.

I supported Ron Paul back in 1988 and recently too.

I happen to think that OPEN CARRY is a VERY good thing and I am doing this more especially since I moved out here (Montana) after my late husband died as we had previously planned. I was doing this before THE Open Carry issue was ever that popular!

I, also, happen to think that IF you truly believe in the Open Carry Issue that you should think that it is good enough to OC wherever and whenever it is 'Legal' according to the thousands of stinking ANTI gun laws in THIS country. So I don't know why some of you have your LIMITS and anti OC thoughts here and there on this forum. IF it is not legally allowed, you can carry your empty HOLSTER on your hip or waist or shoulder!

I am a peaceful lady, an advocate of OC and pro gun issues. ALL of them.

I guess that I don't understand where some of YOU are coming from when You Say that there are SOME places where OC is LEGAL but you should not DO this (OC) because ALL of these Political, American, Constitutional, RKBA issues, OC or any kind of CARRY has to be KEPT APART AS IF THEY DON'T ALL COUNT WHEN IT COMES TO FREEDOM ISSUES!

So you profess one thing and say another that conflicts with OC?! As if you are trying so hard to be POLITICALLY CORRECT?! Huh? I don't understand that at all. You don't have to be PC nor do you have to be RUDE when you OC but you should be PROUD to do this anywhere and, NOW, you say and write something different? Because of this individual person, Mike V., or because there may be some BAD people, CRAZY people or Cointelpro people at that one event? Are you afraid or are OTHER groups afraid to be there too?

Maybe some of you don't really support OC and ALL pro gun rights the SAME EXACT WAY that I support and believe in them. You support and believe ANOTHER WAY which is your absolute right as in ANY matter. Maybe I am the odd one here. It would not be the first time! Many small l libertarians, BIG L Libertarians, some Reps, some Dems, some anti Iraq War people, some military, some pro war people and Constitution Folks think and believe that Open Carry means just that. It is not some dirty little secret to be only shown here but NOT there.

If that makes me an outsider to some of you even though I am a peaceful OC lady so be it.

I just don't 'get it' or understand WHY you think some things are fine here but not THERE or anywhere else!

Oh yes, some of the Tea Parties have been infiltrated and taken over by some groups and people. They are NOT all of the original peaceful, small government, Ron Paul, etc. people. I will leave it at that. However with that said, I have not been to a official tea party but I do know people who have been there - done that from when it was first started and they see what it is now. The PRESS wants to demonize some of them too. Just like the gun folks.

Catherine
Armed and Female
Montana Territory for now...

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PS:

I do realize that INDIVIDUAL Oath Keepers who decide to attend BOTH events are FREE to do this. That old Free Will thing you know!

The Oath Keeper Group does not want to be at the RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION rally in an official capacity - end of story. They backed out late for their own reasons - their call.

Have a nice Sunday!

Catherine

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Prometheus wrote:

The biggest problem with many of the replies in this thread is that, some how, if you OC, you are OCDO...

Click to expand...

No, these replies are correctly based upon the fact that if you open carry, like it or not you are a representative of the open carry community.

And your open carry at any rally is expressive conduct that is being perceived by the public and media asconflated with the latest tea flavor of the day.

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Mike wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

The biggest problem with many of the replies in this thread is that, some how, if you OC, you are OCDO...

Click to expand...

No, these replies are correctly based upon the fact that if you open carry, like it or not you are a representative of the open carry community.

And your open carry at any rally is expressive conduct that is being perceived by the public and media asconflated with the latest tea flavor of the day.

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And there endith the 1st lesson.

Yata hey

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Ohhhh, Loorrrddd....

I just knew the nutbars would tap into this and ruin it. This should have been an all-OCDO event. My God, do you realize that the very next day is Adolf Hitler's birthday? Or that mid-April is the time that nutty stuff like Tim McVeigh's deeds take place?

Ides of March my hienie. Beware the Ides ofApril.

So if I go to a rally now I have to stay up after a graveyard shift and ride the Metro to the Washington Monument with an empty holster. (I will try nd be there).

Whatan utter fiasco. If nobody shows up t Fort Hunt, they will ignore DC nd say that support for the 2A is not all we say it is. And if nutty things are said there, they will tar us all with that brush.Not to mention, what if some jerk unfurls a swastika banner?

I wonder why it is that the Antis can have all the leftie goofballs on the planet glom onto them,and it doesn't ffect their popularity; but let a few similar geeks from the other side of the spectrum glom onto US and it is a PR disaster?

I need anaspirin........

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Alexcabbie wrote:

I need anaspirin........

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Headaches are not contagious and soap and water are still cheap enough.

Yata hey

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tb1453 wrote:

Not worth repeating-LW

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That is the most stupid thing I've heard in a while. Where did you hear this rumor or are you just making it up?

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Mike wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

The biggest problem with many of the replies in this thread is that, some how, if you OC, you are OCDO...

Click to expand...

No, these replies are correctly based upon the fact that if you open carry, like it or not you are a representative of the open carry community.

And your open carry at any rally is expressive conduct that is being perceived by the public and media asconflated with the latest tea flavor of the day.

Click to expand...

Whats your point? They conflate <insert liberty event here> with rednecks and racists and klansmen and nazis... again what is your point?

Do you (or anyone else) some how think that this is going to make XYZ event or ABC cause any better or worse?

Here is an even better example, at the Valparaiso Tea Party (and 400+ people attending) there were several media outlets present and not a single one showed any of us who were open carrying (be it handguns or AR-15's). Moot point there.

I've got a great idea, how about ya'll stop getting your panties into a wad and grow up. The media will spin it however they want. If they want guns, they'll show the clip of the black man OC'ing an AR so you can't tell he is black and pretend it was form a recent rally.

The Gun movement isn't the "NRA" and the Open Carry 'movement' isn't about OCDO. OCDO is a great resource and it's been invaluable in getting nationwide attention turned on open carry. Lets not make it into some super end all be all that speaks for everyone who OC's. Most OC'ers I meet haven't event heard of this place. Want proof? Visit the Indiana forum here, lol.

The days and weeks of footwork done here in North West Indiana (Lake and Porter County most notably) has all been done by people (mostly me) with little to no affiliation with OCDO.

Sorry but the high and mighties trying to claim that OC should only be done at a non-political event or a OCDO sponsored event is lunacy.

The arrogance to try and speak for everyone else... it's insulting, to say the least.

"movement"... sounds like it should be proceeded by the word 'bowel' the way some people here use it :?

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strawman
noun
2. a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted

I find that strawmen are usually preceded by "Are you saying," "Do you mean that," or "What is your point?"

I say this to say that Mike made his point well and precisely. He was not making the point you are suggesting he was. He also made his point with remarkable respect.

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eye95 wrote:

strawman
noun
2. a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted

I find that strawmen are usually preceded by "Are you saying," "Do you mean that," or "What is your point?"

I say this to say that Mike made his point well and precisely. He was not making the point you are suggesting he was. He also made his point with remarkable respect.

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+1 sure glad you cleared that up - was afraid that I had missed the junta and that a new set of standards had been introduced.

Yata hey

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Open-carry rally hinges on rights
Groups of self-proclaimed patriots will demonstrate in national park
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36635695/ns/politics-washington_post


Looks like the media is going to link the rallies whether anyone likes it or not.


Organizers of another April 19 rally, the Second Amendment March at the Washington Monument, want it known that they have nothing to do with the Restore the Constitution muster. "We are a peaceful, law-abiding group that will follow all local and federal laws," the march organizers' Web site says. "That group is a separate entity entirely and is not at all associated," but at least two speakers are appearing at both rallies, including Larry Pratt, the executive director of Gun Owners of America, a key force behind the D.C. rally

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eye95 wrote

He was not making the point you are suggesting he was.

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He was (and others) making EXACTLY that point. There is nothing to infer, he is blatant:

No, these replies are correctly based upon the fact that if you open carry, like it or not you are a representative of the open carry community.

And your open carry at any rally is expressive conduct that is being perceived by the public and media asconflated with the latest tea flavor of the day.

Click to expand...

What else does that mean? or the dozen other posts that said virtually the same thing.

Instead of generalizations, why don't you try and refute my points? Why? Because you can't. I've called you out and you've got no defense from the truth.

As SAVAGEONE just replied, they are making the connection anyway (as I said they would), so again, exactly what is it YOU are trying to accomplish here, aside from trying to muzzle my free speech when I'm out in public?

Grow up and get over it.

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Prometheus wrote:

eye95 wrote

He was not making the point you are suggesting he was.

Click to expand...

He was (and others) making EXACTLY that point. There is nothing to infer, he is blatant:

No, these replies are correctly based upon the fact that if you open carry, like it or not you are a representative of the open carry community.

And your open carry at any rally is expressive conduct that is being perceived by the public and media asconflated with the latest tea flavor of the day.

Click to expand...

What else does that mean? or the dozen other posts that said virtually the same thing.

Instead of generalizations, why don't you try and refute my points? Why? Because you can't. I've called you out and you've got no defense from the truth.

As SAVAGEONE just replied, they are making the connection anyway (as I said they would), so again, exactly what is it YOU are trying to accomplish here, aside from trying to muzzle my free speech when I'm out in public?

Grow up and get over it.

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OK. Let me be blunt. You inserted some disgustingly inflammatory words Mike did not use and implied that was the point he was making.

That was a despicable thing to do. I tried to gently point it out, hoping you would rethink the way you refuted what another says. That did not work, so bluntness it is.

Here is how grown up I am. I will not respond in kind with a personal insult. My criticism is directed solely at what you chose to post. I have made my point and am moving on.

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Prometheus wrote:

eye95 wrote

He was not making the point you are suggesting he was.

Click to expand...

He was (and others) making EXACTLY that point. There is nothing to infer, he is blatant:

No, these replies are correctly based upon the fact that if you open carry, like it or not you are a representative of the open carry community.

And your open carry at any rally is expressive conduct that is being perceived by the public and media asconflated with the latest tea flavor of the day.

Click to expand...

What else does that mean? or the dozen other posts that said virtually the same thing.

Instead of generalizations, why don't you try and refute my points? Why? Because you can't. I've called you out and you've got no defense from the truth.

As SAVAGEONE just replied, they are making the connection anyway (as I said they would), so again, exactly what is it YOU are trying to accomplish here, aside from trying to muzzle my free speech when I'm out in public?

Grow up and get over it.

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Is it the meaning of the word(s) you do not understand or just the ideas expressed.

Let me try. A vast majority of us here neither embrace nor support the rhetoric espoused by some. We do not wish to be associated with them in fact or by reference. Yes the media as done this, but to a lessor degree than I might have even thought possible.

One OCer can be singled out as representative of the whole and connected to whatever the cause celebre of the day happens to be. With this you would seem to agree.

Lets leave the flames and attitude for another forum.

Yata hey

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I understand why you would want to distance yourself (OCDO)
from a controversial person, i.e. Vandebough (which I know nothing
about ) ,but no matter what you do the leftist, socialist, marxist
media, politicians and citizens(comrades) will never like us,will
never agree with us.
In any type of movement, you will have someone speak or act
controversial, eventually. Just the human condition, nothing
you can do. Even if you didn't have someone do this, the
people mentioned above would and do make things up
out of whole cloth.They are the very one's that have abridged
our rights and freedoms in the first place.
The Tea Party is protesting against conviscatory taxes,
usurpation of power by fed , the run amok spending and
general erosion of freedoms, including 2A.
So, I think, what the Tea Party is protesting and the
obsticle to OC and 2A in general ,stems from the same
problem, caused by the same people (see above)
I don't think OCDO should distance their selves from
the Tea Party or any other conservative movement or
legit organization because we are bound together by
a love of the Constitution.
As far as anti-gov, the Tea Party is not anti-gov, just anti
socialist gov. There has been a socialist coup d'etat in this
country and people had better wake up (I think they are).
We won't have any freedoms and the only recourse will
be 1776 part deux. I don't personally think we're there
yet, but we have to turn things around now, before it's
to late.

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Grapeshot wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

eye95 wrote

He was not making the point you are suggesting he was.

Click to expand...

He was (and others) making EXACTLY that point. There is nothing to infer, he is blatant:

No, these replies are correctly based upon the fact that if you open carry, like it or not you are a representative of the open carry community.

And your open carry at any rally is expressive conduct that is being perceived by the public and media asconflated with the latest tea flavor of the day.

Click to expand...

What else does that mean? or the dozen other posts that said virtually the same thing.

Instead of generalizations, why don't you try and refute my points? Why? Because you can't. I've called you out and you've got no defense from the truth.

As SAVAGEONE just replied, they are making the connection anyway (as I said they would), so again, exactly what is it YOU are trying to accomplish here, aside from trying to muzzle my free speech when I'm out in public?

Grow up and get over it.

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Is it the meaning of the word(s) you do not understand or just the ideas expressed.

Let me try. A vast majority of us here neither embrace nor support the rhetoric espoused by some. We do not wish to be associated with them in fact or by reference. Yes the media as done this, but to a lessor degree than I might have even thought possible.

One OCer can be singled out as representative of the whole and connected to whatever the cause celebre of the day happens to be. With this you would seem to agree.

Lets leave the flames and attitude for another forum.

Yata hey

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I have had to defend OC on other forums as a right, not as making a statement. The last place I thought I would have to make my case was here.

Grapeshot, you don't embrace or support the rhetoric espoused by some. Great, you have the right "not" to assemble. You don't want to be associated with them in fact or by reference, well I thought you already knew the world's not fair. Last time I checked there was no right not to be misjudged by someone or the media.

Understand when I OC it's not to make a statement it's to exercise a right. If while I am exercising that right, someone uses me as a negative I can't help that. Now, I know there will be those who will chime in that it is important for everyone to project a positive image when they OC so as to help the "movement" progress. I try to project a positive image not for the "movement" but for myself. When I exercise my rights I try to do it in positive way because that's the way I was raised and that's who I am. I also realize regardless of how I present myself there are those who will look down on the choices I've made. As long as I'm not violating the law or infringing onsomeone else'srights there's not much more I can do.