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Thread: Private Property Line

  1. #1
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    At what point does my private property end and the city/government property begin?

    If I step out of my yard and onto the sidewalk that runs by my house am I on city/government property?

    What about if I step onto the patch of grass between the sidewalk & street, could I be breaking the law by OC'ing there if I'm in a school zone?

  2. #2
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    i question that too. i know that though a sidewalk may not be present, the area for it may be a city 'domain', so what if anything happens if i enter into that area. is it my property, or 'theirs'?

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    4over4 wrote:
    At what point does my private property end and the city/government property begin?

    If I step out of my yard and onto the sidewalk that runs by my house am I on city/government property?

    What about if I step onto the patch of grass between the sidewalk & street, could I be breaking the law by OC'ing there if I'm in a school zone?
    Yes you are breaking the law once you step from your lawn onto the sidewalk and beyond the sidewalk if you are within a GFSZ.

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    McX wrote:
    i question that too. i know that though a sidewalk may not be present, the area for it may be a city 'domain', so what if anything happens if i enter into that area. is it my property, or 'theirs'?
    If there is no sidewalk you are in your yard.

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    In most places there will be a steel pin or marker on the corner of lot between properties.Normally right on the edge of sidewalk towards house or lot side. It may be buried but if you dig around youshould find it. If there is no sidewalk the pins are still there, just have to determine road right of way, by lot depth and or width of street to find them. This is from my own construction experience there are exceptions.

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    winken wrote:
    In most places there will be a steel pin or marker on the corner of lot between properties.
    No.

    Maybe in some places, but, as in many places, my property line is the center of the county road that exists as an easement on my property not unlike my utility easement and my neighbor's driveway. The government, the 'state', should own no property.

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    I thought the thread was about residential areas with and without sidewalks. I didn't think to check with Gilligan and the Skipper.

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    If you don't have the paperwork from when you bought the property, you should be able to go to city hall to get a exact definition of your property.

    I know here in the city of racine, your property ends at the sidewalk. The sidewalk and patch of grass between the sidewalk and street are public property even though you have to do the upkeep for that parcel of land.

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    DRG wrote:
    If you don't have the paperwork from when you bought the property, you should be able to go to city hall to get a exact definition of your property.

    I know here in the city of racine, your property ends at the sidewalk. The sidewalk and patch of grass between the sidewalk and street are public property even though you have to do the upkeep for that parcel of land.
    I live in Stallis and it's the same way.

    I was curious how the law applied though.

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    Your property taxes and the plat on which they are based are public information, most likely available on-line from your County (often called GIS or Land Information Office).

    You will note that no one has cited any law.

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    That area is usually called Road Right of Way, usually the area where Utility Poles are placed is where the RROW ends.
    And yes that "patch" of grass between the sidewalk and road is not typically considered "Private".
    Search "Curtilage"
    Hope this helps.

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    DRG wrote:
    If you don't have the paperwork from when you bought the property, you should be able to go to city hall to get a exact definition of your property.

    I know here in the city of racine, your property ends at the sidewalk. The sidewalk and patch of grass between the sidewalk and street are public property even though you have to do the upkeep for that parcel of land.
    If you are concerned about your property line go get a copy of the property survey as many municipalities look at this differently. I live on a 180' deep lot (measured from the curb - per my survey)we have no sidewalks but I do have a 15' utility easement running along the road. My private property DOES NOT include the easement, making my PRIVATE property 165' deep and ending 15' feet short of the curb.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Your property taxes and the plat on which they are based are public information, most likely available on-line from your County (often called GIS or Land Information Office).

    You will note that no one has cited any law.
    Cited what law?

    his three questions:

    Q: where does my property end and city property begin.
    A: You have to look that up. Then i gave him an example about the way it works in Racine.

    Q:If I step out of my yard and onto the sidewalk that runs by my house am I on city/government property?
    A: same as previous question.

    Q:What about if I step onto the patch of grass between the sidewalk & street, could I be breaking the law by OC'ing there if I'm in a school zone?
    A: That would depend on the answer from the previous two questions. But if in his situation it was public property then yes we could have cited Wisconsin state statute 948.605 that deals with GFSZ's. But it seemed like from his question he was already aware of 948.605 and was just clarifying if he would be inviolation of that law, not what the law was.

    But I don't really think that any of the questions warranted any law to be cited. YMMV

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    I posted this link under the Gun Free School Zone thread. Apparently it was overlooked. It is an article authored by one of the mostsucessful real estate lawyers in California and expresses his opinion concerning private real estate property. Read it and draw your own conclusions.

    http://www.aoausa.com/MagazineAdvert...ndLotLines.pdf

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    My search engine is still running but has identified 34 Chapters of Wisconsin Statutes addressing "easements".

    So unless a well formed question in law is made...over and out.

    My compliments to the Captain.

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    "Wisconsin cases have adopted the rule that the conveyance of abutting property on a street or highway transfers the legal title to the land to the center of the adjacent street or highway, in the absence of a clear intent to the contrary."

    Grunwaldt v. Milwaukee, 35 Wis. 2d 530, 539 (S.Ct. 1967)

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    Additional information to jrm's post



    715 F.2d 1248

    20 ERC 2132, 13 Envtl. L. Rep. 20,998

    Edward E. SIMONS, et al., Plaintiffs-Appellants,
    v.
    Anne M. GORSUCH, Administrator of Environmental Protection
    Agency of the U.S.A., et al., Defendants-Appellees.

    Nos. 82-2634, 83-1072.

    United States Court of Appeals,
    Seventh Circuit.

    Argued May 11, 1983.
    Decided Aug. 30, 1983.


    Daniel F. Snyder, Debardeleben & Snyder, Park Falls, Wis., for plaintiffs-appellants.

    Michael E. Perino, Mulcahy & Wherry, S.C., Madison, Wis., Robert L. Klarquist, Dept. of Justice, Washington, D.C., Walter Kuhlmann, Boardman Suhr, Curry & Field, Madison, Wis., for defendants-appellees.

    Before CUDAHY and POSNER, Circuit Judges, and ROSENN, Senior Circuit Judge.*

    CUDAHY, Circuit Judge.



    Excerpt:

    The appellants argue next that, under Wisconsin law, they own the land up to the center of the town road adjacent to their property, thereby bringing their property within the 300 feet perimeter and entitling them to a mailed notification of the hearing. The Wisconsin rule is that the owner of adjacent land "holds legal title to the land to the center of the adjacent street or highway, in the absence of a clear intent to the contrary." Rikkers v. Ryan, 76 Wis.2d 185, 251 N.W.2d 25, 27 (1977) ( citing Grunwaldt v. Milwaukee, 35 Wis.2d 530, 151 N.W.2d 24 (1967)). But in this case, the final phase of the Simonses' legal descriptions destroys their claim. That phrase, in the case of both parcels, reads: "excepting therefrom the existing highway and railroad right-of-ways." This phrase excludes the highway and railroad rights of way from the property owned by the appellants. Therefore, we approve the district court's determination that appellants were not improperly denied notice of the public hearings.6

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    Captain Nemo wrote:
    Therefore, we approve the district court's determination that appellants were not improperly denied notice of the public hearings.
    Thanks, Captain, for the extra info and for the link. How about that triple negation; "not improperly denied notice"?



  19. #19
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    Anybody know how I can contct a member named Lammie? I have a question regarding an earlier post he made concerning property surveys. He doesn't answer my PM's.

  20. #20
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    My friend PM'ed me his bittersweet Swan Song.

    Others accuse y'all of being only my various sockpuppets.

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