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Thread: Well Saldana's bill made it into the Sd Union Tribune

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    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...ry-gun-rights/


    State bill would end open-carry gun rights Saldaña says measure is motivated by protests By Michael Gardner, U-T SACRAMENTO BUREAU
    Thursday, April 15, 2010 at 12:04 a.m.


    SACRAMENTO — Could tactics used by the “open carry” movement backfire?
    Assemblywoman Lori Saldaña, D-San Diego, and allies of legislation she introduced Wednesday to ban the public display of unloaded weapons believe so.
    State law permitting Californians to display their empty-chamber firearms has been on the books since about 1968, drawing little attention.
    But a surge in demonstrations of people exercising that right in the San Diego region and nationally has attracted scrutiny.
    “It wasn’t a problem we had to deal with. As it’s become more prevalent over the last two years, we’ve had to deal with it,” said Emeryville Police Chief Ken James, whose statewide law enforcement organization supports the measure. “If we hadn’t had a lot of these open-carry events, police chiefs probably wouldn’t be involved in it,” he added.
    Saldaña cited an open-carry event in Pacific Beach last year as alerting her to the need for a ban on displaying guns, even unloaded, in public. There, with thousands of people at the beach on a Saturday, about 60 members of the movement walked along the boardwalk.
    Open-carry advocates say they are acting out of frustration over what they see as government’s infringement on their Second Amendment rights. They also are protesting limits on concealed-weapon permits.
    “The Second Amendment provides the right to bear arms, not just in the home,” said Sam Paredes, executive director of Gun Owners of California. “They’re using the First Amendment to make a statement about the Second Amendment.”
    Among the most celebrated instances nationally have been at various Starbucks Coffee locations and in Phoenix, where about a dozen activists legally brandished weapons near an event attended by President Barack Obama.
    “Guns are an intimidating presence,” Saldaña said. “The average citizen can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys.”
    Lawmakers have attempted to change the law several times, but not since 2005, according to Saldaña.
    “We’re seeing more instances of open carry. Circumstances have changed,” she said.
    Saldaña’s measure, Assembly Bill 1934, would not change existing law that allows citizens to carry concealed weapons with permits. Businesses on private property would still be free to implement their own open-carry policies.
    Gerald Reaster, a retired Navy officer and organizer of an Escondido open-carry group, called the public displays “a form of grass-roots political protest.”
    Members go to public places to assert their rights and educate people, he said.
    There have been events in shopping malls, at restaurants and at Escondido’s popular Cruisin’ Grand hot-rod event on Friday nights. Members meet beforehand for a safety briefing and to ensure the guns are unloaded, Reaster said.
    “We are not doing this to intimidate people,” he said.
    But there have been reports of business patrons fleeing stores and complaining that the demonstrations frighten them and their children.
    Victor Torres, a member of the North County minority rights organization El Grupo, is alarmed because he associates the open-carry movement with the Minutemen, which has crusaded against illegal immigration.
    “I don’t see what the purpose is other than trying to intimidate people,” Torres said, endorsing the legislation.
    Saldaña promotes the bill as a public safety measure, noting that when police are called to reports of guns they do not know whether it’s a protest or an actual public threat.
    Said Emeryville Chief James, “We view open carry as an officer safety issue. Officers are taught from Day One at the academy that guns are a threat. … We teach tactically how to respond to that threat.”
    With Saldaña’s bill in place, “they will not have to worry about whether their safety is going to be in peril by somebody openly carrying a firearm,” James said.
    Paredes dismissed the support of the California Police Chiefs Association, saying members must answer to big-city councils that are usually pro-gun control.
    Supporters of the bill concede that they know of no incidences of violence related to open-carry events.
    Even though California law bars citizens from displaying loaded guns, ammunition can be on one hip while an unloaded pistol is holstered on the other leg, Saldaña said. She displayed a video showing a person slipping a magazine into a gun within two seconds.
    The bill will get its first test Monday in the Assembly Public Safety Committee.
    Its fate appears murky. Gun control, even in California, has always been a tough sell in the Legislature. Its chances are further complicated by upcoming elections and the influence of the conservative tea party movement.
    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has not taken a position.
    Michael Gardner: (916) 445-2934; mike.gardner@uniontrib.com

    "Sooner or later we all must die. Warriors choose to do so on their feet, standing between their enemies and those they hold dear. With a weapon in their hands. Cowards choose to do so on their bellies. Unarmed."
    - Dave Gell (inspired by author David Weber)

    "The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities,"
    - Daniel Schmutter

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    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    The bill will get its first test Monday in the Assembly Public Safety Committee.
    Its fate appears murky. Gun control, even in California, has always been a tough sell in the Legislature. Its chances are further complicated by upcoming elections and the influence of the conservative tea party movement.




    A GLIMMER OF HOPE ..... MAYBE ???

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    Regular Member Grimes's Avatar
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    I feel bad for my relatives in California.

    This new bill reminds me of a quote I know.



    "THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

    THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

    THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
    and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

    THEN THEY CAME for me
    and by that time no one was left to speak up."

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Said Emeryville Chief James, “We view open carry as an officer safety issue. Officers are taught from Day One at the academy that guns are a threat. … We teach tactically how to respond to that threat.”
    Perhaps they're teaching wrong at the academy?

    Why is it so much of a threat in California when it's not a threat in 35/36 other states?


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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    It's about control. Control equals power. Any loss of control is a loss of power.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Gundude wrote:
    It's about control. Control equals power. Any loss of control is a loss of power.

    Gundude:

    The profundaty exuded by you on that last post was immense!

    +3

    If only progressives could control us a little more, why we would have utopia on earth. That is how Saldana and police chiefs think. They are all cut from the same cloth. I say go ahead to Saldana et allia, throw that napalm on an alreadyraging political fire! Lets see what happens.

    markm

    Edit: Added "to Saldana et allia"

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    Well on our way to getting all those lovely ban's on all of our weapons. Then once they are gone and the police and criminals are the only ones with guns. The crime rate soars then the safety committee, the politicians, the police well be standing there with their feet in their mouths saying "Uh Uh what happen this is the opposite of what we thought would happen so this cant be our fault"
    "Sooner or later we all must die. Warriors choose to do so on their feet, standing between their enemies and those they hold dear. With a weapon in their hands. Cowards choose to do so on their bellies. Unarmed."
    - Dave Gell (inspired by author David Weber)

    "The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities,"
    - Daniel Schmutter

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    Chrisc411 wrote:
    Well on our way to getting all those lovely ban's on all of our weapons. Then once they are gone and the police and criminals are the only ones with guns. The crime rate soars then the safety committee, the politicians, the police well be standing there with their feet in their mouths saying "Uh Uh what happen this is the opposite of what we thought would happen so this cant be our fault"
    Hey Chrisc411,

    Progressives (neo-Marxists is what they really are) will never admit a mistake. They always double down on what did not work. "We did not go far enough with taking the rights of the law-abiding; therefore, we need to restrict freedoms more!" "More restrictions will finally give us the utopia we dream of!" It never ends. They are never happy with a little power.

    markm

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    Statkowski wrote:
    Said Emeryville Chief James, “We view open carry as an officer safety issue. Officers are taught from Day One at the academy that guns are a threat. … We teach tactically how to respond to that threat.”
    Perhaps they're teaching wrong at the academy?

    Why is it so much of a threat in California when it's not a threat in 35/36 other states?
    WOW, better send your Police rookies to a Police Academy in Arizona..

    Following from the Arizona Republic (Phoenix Newspaper:
    The (Arizona) police chiefs group initially opposed the bill (SB 1108 - Constitutional Carry) but then took a neutral stance after some provisions were changed at their request. (Governor) Brewer's office also participated in negotiations on changes to the bill.

    ....the measure was supported by Arizona police unions representing rank-and-file officers, who said their best friend on the streets is a law-abiding citizen equipped to protect themselves or others.

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    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    A FEAR OF WEAPONS IS A SIGN OF RETARDED SEXUAL AND EMOTIONAL MATURITY - - Sigmund Freud

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    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    LUKE 11:21 -When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace - King James Version

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    Gundude wrote:
    It's about control. Control equals power. Any loss of control is a loss of power.
    Guess what happens when the SCOTUS rules favorably on incorporation? Last minute efforts to infringe on a right that the bill's author herself clarifies and admits as a right will crumble like sand castle against constitutional challenge.

    I think the SCOTUS even ruled that if one mode of carry is not permissible (say, concealed) then another (open carry) should be permissible. I cant remember the ruling.

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    Who is running against Saldana? Judging from her website, she's a real lightweight.
    She's got a PE degree for christsakes - don't those people want someone with a LAW degree representing them??
    jbs/

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    jspence wrote:
    Who is running against Saldana? Judging from her website, she's a real lightweight.
    She's got a PE degree for christsakes - don't those people want someone with a LAW degree representing them??
    jbs/
    Not particularly. The problem with electing lawyers to office is that they want to practice law by creating new ones. I would rather have someone with an honorary degree from the School of Hard Knockswith a Major in Constitutional Studies.


    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    No one is running against Saldana. She is OUT soon due to term limits.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    She is afraid, so she decided to take a dump on the constitution on the way out.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Statkowski wrote:
    Perhaps they're teaching wrong at the academy?

    Yuh think?!

    GWbiker wrote:
    WOW, better send your Police rookies to a Police Academy in Arizona..
    Now there's a thought! Shut down all the PRK police-state trainingcamps and force them into liberty-based, constitutionally soundlaw enforcementre-educationcenters in AZ.


    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Gundude wrote:
    She is afraid, so she decided to take a dump on the constitution on the way out.
    And there you went and hit the nail on the head...this beingone of the unintended consequences of term limits...those who are nasty really show it when there aren't any repercussions for their actions.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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