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1st hassle while OCing...

Deek

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
128
Location
Little Chute, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

It was bound to happen at some point. I was helping a friend with some errands yesterday ( he cant drive, no DL), and had my unit with me. on the second stop, we were at the local Copp's store in appleton and I went in armed and didn't make more than 30 sec. inside when a "concerned" citizen pointed me out to a management type who proceeded to stop me. I was informed that copps has a no firearms policy, which I, If I remember right, doesn't exsist. I did try to bring up the fact that I was being legal, was within my rights to do so and such, but kept getting the "it's policy".

I did take my sidearm back to the car, so as to not be a dork about it, but did go back to talk to employee/ management type to get info about who to talk to about the Roundy's stance on guns, the 2nd amend. and such.

So, anyone know if Round's et.al has a policy? I thought I'd read somewhere on here that they didn't. Or, if theres a certain someone to call or write to, to get this straitened out and/or complain to?

Thanks for any info anybody might have...
 

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
imported post

Although this hasnt happened to me yet, I always figured that if a staff member said that to me I would ask "are you the store manager?". If the response was no, I would at that point state "then I would like to see the store manager now so there is no mistake on what actual store policy is". Dont know if that would be the best way to handle it, but I read several times here that once the "manager" was contacted it was suddenly disclosed that store policy is to "comply with state law" and that the shelf stocker didnt have the authority to say anything.
 

bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
imported post

100% agreement here, ask to speak with the store manager. Confirm name and contact information. If possible, ask the manager to verify the "corporate" policy with the corporate office while you wait. Request corporate office contact information as well.

BUT: Always be polite and if they really want you out, then leave.
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

And don't spend your money there! Leave the cart where it sits and go spend your money where they support your rights. Walk out and let them put the grocerys back where they belong.
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
Location
, ,
imported post

The manager is uninformed. Roundy's does not prohibit open carry. Politely make contact with the manager and share the letter that our fellow ocdo member obtained from Roundy's.

One time in a pick-and-save store a manager told me that "I'm sure you have a permit for that, but can you just leave it in your car next time"

I replied very politely: "I know with absolute certainty that Therese Bailey from Roundy's corporate has confirmed to one of our members in an email that in accordance with state law open-carry in a Roundy's store is allowed"

His reply was a very cordial "Ok, sorry, I hadn't heard about it" and I continued shopping armed and do so to this day in that store.

Keep in mind that their continued supportive policy could change if they have a less than positive experience with an open-carrier. Like it or not, we are all ambassadors of the movement every time we go in public.
 

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
imported post

bnhcomputing wrote:
100% agreement here, ask to speak with the store manager. Confirm name and contact information. If possible, ask the manager to verify the "corporate" policy with the corporate office while you wait. Request corporate office contact information as well.

BUT: Always be polite and if they really want you out, then leave.
Big yuppers there. Dont want a tresspassing charge.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,381
Location
across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsi
imported post

Brad_Krause wrote:
As you point out, Copps Food Center was acquired by Roundy's Supermarkets, Inc.
comp45acp wrote: [/b]
After playing answering machine tag with Therese Bailey for a few days she called me back today. She reiterated the following email that many of us got from her back in July:

Dear Mr. Burgess,

I am writing in response to your concern submitted to us on July 7, 2009. Roundy’s abides by all laws. Our long standing practice has been that if a store director receives a complaint or encounters a situation that he or she feels uncomfortable addressing directly with a customer, the store director is to defer to the expertise of the police to assess and handle the situation. If you choose to enter our stores openly carrying a weapon, please be aware that certain of our customers, as well as certain of our employees, may feel uneasy.

Thank you for your inquiry and patronage of Roundy’s Supermarkets.

Therese Bailey
Manager, Customer Relations


Roundy's Supermarkets, Inc., MS-2760
P.O. Box 473, Milwaukee, WI 53201-0473
Ph: 414-231-5954 Fax: 248-287-5509
Email: therese.bailey@roundys.com

The good news is she clearly said that if open carry is legal in Wisconsin it is OK in their stores but to please be aware that it may alarm some people. I assured her that I (we) are very aware of that and that everyone I know that carries works hard to not alarm anyone as that is certainly not our intention. She said she will contact all store managers once again to make sure they understand that Roundy's recognizes open carry as a legal activity. It will be good to get back to shopping at Pick'n Save as we have always liked their product selection. Thanks to all who wrote emails, letters and called Roundy's Corporate-all of our efforts no doubt had an impact on Roundy's position.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
imported post

More of a general question but related to this. If the manager asks you to leave and you don't and then the cops are called. is it trespassing when they show up or do they (the cops) have to tell you to leave 1st?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,381
Location
across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsi
imported post

Wisconsin presumes trespass notice. I'll start my search engine and make the citation in a bit.

That means that citizens in Wisconsin are expected to know that they are not welcome on private property without invitation.

Wisconsin Statutes Chapter 943, Crimes Against Property, Subchapter II, Trespass,
§943.13 Trespass to land. §943.14 Criminal trespass to dwellings

943.13 Trespass to land.
(1e) In this section:
(a) “Dwelling unit” means a structure or that part of a structure
which is used or intended to be used as a home, residence or sleeping
place by one person or by 2 or more persons maintaining a
common household, to the exclusion of all others.
(az) “Implied consent” means conduct or words or both that
imply that an owner or occupant of land has given consent to
another person to enter the land.
(b) “Inholding” means a parcel of land that is private property
and that is surrounded completely by land owned by the United
States, by this state or by a local governmental unit or any combination
of the United States, this state and a local governmental
unit.
(c) “Local governmental unit” means a political subdivision of
this state, a special purpose district in this state, an instrumentality
or corporation of the political subdivision or special purpose district
or a combination or subunit of any of the foregoing.
(d) “Place of employment” has the meaning given in s. 101.01
(11).
(e) “Private property” means real property that is not owned
by the United States, this state or a local governmental unit.
(f) “Open land” means land that meets all of the following criteria:
1. The land is not occupied by a structure or improvement
being used or occupied as a dwelling unit.
2. The land is not part of the curtilage, or is not lying in the
immediate vicinity, of a structure or improvement being used or
occupied as a dwelling unit.
3. The land is not occupied by a public building.
4. The land is not occupied by a place of employment.

(1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class
B forfeiture:

(a) Enters any enclosed, cultivated or undeveloped land of
another, other than open land specified in par. (e) or (f), without
the express or implied consent of the owner or occupant.
(am) Enters any land of another that is occupied by a structure
used for agricultural purposes without the express or implied consent
of the owner or occupant.
(b) Enters or remains on any land of another after having been
notified by the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the
premises.
(e) Enters or remains on open land that is an inholding of
another after having been notified by the owner or occupant not
to enter or remain on the land.
(f) Enters undeveloped private land from an abutting parcel of
land that is owned by the United States, this state or a local governmental
unit, or remains on such land, after having been notified by
the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the land.

(1s) In determining whether a person has implied consent to
enter the land of another a trier of fact shall consider all of the circumstances
existing at the time the person entered the land,
including all of the following:
(a) Whether the owner or occupant acquiesced to previous
entries by the person or by other persons under similar circumstances.
(b) The customary use, if any, of the land by other persons.
(c) Whether the owner or occupant represented to the public
that the land may be entered for particular purposes.
(d) The general arrangement or design of any improvements
or structures on the land.

(2) A person has received notice from the owner or occupant
within the meaning of sub. (1m) (b), (e) or (f) if he or she has been
notified personally, either orally or in writing, or if the land is
posted. Land is considered to be posted under this subsection
under either of the following procedures:
(a) If a sign at least 11 inches square is placed in at least 2 conspicuous
places for every 40 acres to be protected. The sign must
carry an appropriate notice and the name of the person giving the
notice followed by the word “owner” if the person giving the
notice is the holder of legal title to the land and by the word “occupant”
if the person giving the notice is not the holder of legal title
but is a lawful occupant of the land. Proof that appropriate signs
as provided in this paragraph were erected or in existence upon the
premises to be protected prior to the event complained of shall be
prima facie proof that the premises to be protected were posted as
provided in this paragraph.
(b) If markings at least one foot long, including in a contrasting
color the phrase “private land” and the name of the owner, are
made in at least 2 conspicuous places for every 40 acres to be protected.

(3) Whoever erects on the land of another signs which are the
same as or similar to those described in sub. (2) without obtaining
the express consent of the lawful occupant of or holder of legal
title to such land is subject to a Class C forfeiture.

(3m) An owner or occupant may give express consent to enter
or remain on the land for a specified purpose or subject to specified
conditions and it is a violation of sub. (1m) (a) or (am) for a
person who received that consent to enter or remain on the land
for another purpose or contrary to the specified conditions.

(4) Nothing in this section shall prohibit a representative of a
labor union from conferring with any employee provided such
conference is conducted in the living quarters of the employee and
with the consent of the employee occupants.

(4m) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person entering the land, other than the residence or other
buildings or the curtilage of the residence or other buildings, of
another for the purpose of removing a wild animal as authorized
under s. 29.885 (2), (3) or (4).
(b) A hunter entering land that is required to be open for hunting
under s. 29.885 (4m) or 29.889 (7m).
(c) A person entering or remaining on any exposed shore area
of a stream as authorized under s. 30.134.

(5) Any authorized occupant of employer−provided housing
shall have the right to decide who may enter, confer and visit with
the occupant in the housing area the occupant occupies.
History: 1971 c. 317; 1977 c. 173, 295; 1979 c. 32; 1983 a. 418; 1987 a. 27; 1989
a. 31; 1993 a. 342, 486; 1995 a. 45, 451; 1997 a. 248; 1999 a. 9; 2003 a. 33.

The arrest of abortion protesters trespassing at a clinic did not violate their free
speech rights. State v. Horn, 139 Wis. 2d 473, 407 N.W.2d 854 (1987).

Administrative code provisions requiring hunters to make reasonable efforts to
retrieve game birds killed or injured do not exempt a person from criminal prosecution
under sub. (1) (b) [now sub. (1m) (b)] for trespassing upon posted lands to
retrieve birds shot from outside the posted area. 64 Atty. Gen. 204.

943.14 Criminal trespass to dwellings.
Whoever intentionally
enters the dwelling of another without the consent of
some person lawfully upon the premises, under circumstances
tending to create or provoke a breach of the peace, is guilty of a
Class A misdemeanor.

History: 1977 c. 173.

Criminal trespass to a dwelling is not a lesser included offense of burglary. Raymond
v. State, 55 Wis. 2d 482, 198 N.W.2d 351 (1972).

Regardless of any ownership rights in the property, if a person enters a dwelling
that is another’s residence, without consent, this section is violated. State v. Carls,
186 Wis. 2d 533, 521 N.W.2d 181 (Ct. App. 1994).
Entering an outbuilding accessory to a main house may be a violation. 62 Atty.
Gen. 16.
 

comp45acp

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
383
Location
Watertown, WI, ,
imported post

Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman wrote:
The manager is uninformed. Roundy's does not prohibit open carry. Politely make contact with the manager and share the letter that our fellow ocdo member obtained from Roundy's.

One time in a pick-and-save store a manager told me that "I'm sure you have a permit for that, but can you just leave it in your car next time"

I replied very politely: "I know with absolute certainty that Therese Bailey from Roundy's corporate has confirmed to one of our members in an email that in accordance with state law open-carry in a Roundy's store is allowed"

His reply was a very cordial "Ok, sorry, I hadn't heard about it" and I continued shopping armed and do so to this day in that store.

Keep in mind that their continued supportive policy could change if they have a less than positive experience with an open-carrier. Like it or not, we are all ambassadors of the movement every time we go in public.

Nik is 100% right. When I was asked to leave the Pick N Save in Watertown last July I called and spoke with the Customer Service Director at Roundys several times. The issue was presented to the Roundys board of directors. She issued a memo to all store directors stating that Roundys follows all state laws in each state that it does business. This guy apparently didn't get the memo or is ignoring it. Report him to Roundys.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
imported post

Master Doug Huffman wrote:
Wisconsin presumes trespass notice.  I'll start my search engine and make the citation in a bit.

That means that citizens in Wisconsin are expected to know that they are not welcome on private property without invitation.

Wisconsin Statutes Chapter 943, Crimes Against Property, Subchapter II, Trespass,
§943.13 Trespass to land. §943.14 Criminal trespass to dwellings

943.13 Trespass to land.
(1e) In this section:
(a) “Dwelling unit” means a structure or that part of a structure
which is used or intended to be used as a home, residence or sleeping
place by one person or by 2 or more persons maintaining a
common household, to the exclusion of all others.
(az) “Implied consent” means conduct or words or both that
imply that an owner or occupant of land has given consent to
another person to enter the land.
(b) “Inholding” means a parcel of land that is private property
and that is surrounded completely by land owned by the United
States, by this state or by a local governmental unit or any combination
of the United States, this state and a local governmental
unit.
(c) “Local governmental unit” means a political subdivision of
this state, a special purpose district in this state, an instrumentality
or corporation of the political subdivision or special purpose district
or a combination or subunit of any of the foregoing.
(d) “Place of employment” has the meaning given in s. 101.01
(11).
(e) “Private property” means real property that is not owned
by the United States, this state or a local governmental unit.
(f) “Open land” means land that meets all of the following criteria:
1. The land is not occupied by a structure or improvement
being used or occupied as a dwelling unit.
2. The land is not part of the curtilage, or is not lying in the
immediate vicinity, of a structure or improvement being used or
occupied as a dwelling unit.
3. The land is not occupied by a public building.
4. The land is not occupied by a place of employment.

(1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class
B forfeiture:

(a) Enters any enclosed, cultivated or undeveloped land of
another, other than open land specified in par. (e) or (f), without
the express or implied consent of the owner or occupant.
(am) Enters any land of another that is occupied by a structure
used for agricultural purposes without the express or implied consent
of the owner or occupant.
(b) Enters or remains on any land of another after having been
notified by the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the
premises.
(e) Enters or remains on open land that is an inholding of
another after having been notified by the owner or occupant not
to enter or remain on the land.
(f) Enters undeveloped private land from an abutting parcel of
land that is owned by the United States, this state or a local governmental
unit, or remains on such land, after having been notified by
the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the land.

(1s) In determining whether a person has implied consent to
enter the land of another a trier of fact shall consider all of the circumstances
existing at the time the person entered the land,
including all of the following:
(a) Whether the owner or occupant acquiesced to previous
entries by the person or by other persons under similar circumstances.
(b) The customary use, if any, of the land by other persons.
(c) Whether the owner or occupant represented to the public
that the land may be entered for particular purposes.
(d) The general arrangement or design of any improvements
or structures on the land.

(2) A person has received notice from the owner or occupant
within the meaning of sub. (1m) (b), (e) or (f) if he or she has been
notified personally, either orally or in writing, or if the land is
posted. Land is considered to be posted under this subsection
under either of the following procedures:
(a) If a sign at least 11 inches square is placed in at least 2 conspicuous
places for every 40 acres to be protected. The sign must
carry an appropriate notice and the name of the person giving the
notice followed by the word “owner” if the person giving the
notice is the holder of legal title to the land and by the word “occupant”
if the person giving the notice is not the holder of legal title
but is a lawful occupant of the land. Proof that appropriate signs
as provided in this paragraph were erected or in existence upon the
premises to be protected prior to the event complained of shall be
prima facie proof that the premises to be protected were posted as
provided in this paragraph.
(b) If markings at least one foot long, including in a contrasting
color the phrase “private land” and the name of the owner, are
made in at least 2 conspicuous places for every 40 acres to be protected.

(3) Whoever erects on the land of another signs which are the
same as or similar to those described in sub. (2) without obtaining
the express consent of the lawful occupant of or holder of legal
title to such land is subject to a Class C forfeiture.

(3m) An owner or occupant may give express consent to enter
or remain on the land for a specified purpose or subject to specified
conditions and it is a violation of sub. (1m) (a) or (am) for a
person who received that consent to enter or remain on the land
for another purpose or contrary to the specified conditions.

(4) Nothing in this section shall prohibit a representative of a
labor union from conferring with any employee provided such
conference is conducted in the living quarters of the employee and
with the consent of the employee occupants.

(4m) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person entering the land, other than the residence or other
buildings or the curtilage of the residence or other buildings, of
another for the purpose of removing a wild animal as authorized
under s. 29.885 (2), (3) or (4).
(b) A hunter entering land that is required to be open for hunting
under s. 29.885 (4m) or 29.889 (7m).
(c) A person entering or remaining on any exposed shore area
of a stream as authorized under s. 30.134.

(5) Any authorized occupant of employer−provided housing
shall have the right to decide who may enter, confer and visit with
the occupant in the housing area the occupant occupies.
History: 1971 c. 317; 1977 c. 173, 295; 1979 c. 32; 1983 a. 418; 1987 a. 27; 1989
a. 31; 1993 a. 342, 486; 1995 a. 45, 451; 1997 a. 248; 1999 a. 9; 2003 a. 33.

The arrest of abortion protesters trespassing at a clinic did not violate their free
speech rights. State v. Horn, 139 Wis. 2d 473, 407 N.W.2d 854 (1987).

Administrative code provisions requiring hunters to make reasonable efforts to
retrieve game birds killed or injured do not exempt a person from criminal prosecution
under sub. (1) (b) [now sub. (1m) (b)] for trespassing upon posted lands to
retrieve birds shot from outside the posted area. 64 Atty. Gen. 204.

943.14 Criminal trespass to dwellings.
Whoever intentionally
enters the dwelling of another without the consent of
some person lawfully upon the premises, under circumstances
tending to create or provoke a breach of the peace, is guilty of a
Class A misdemeanor.

History: 1977 c. 173.

Criminal trespass to a dwelling is not a lesser included offense of burglary. Raymond
v. State, 55 Wis. 2d 482, 198 N.W.2d 351 (1972).

Regardless of any ownership rights in the property, if a person enters a dwelling
that is another’s residence, without consent, this section is violated. State v. Carls,
186 Wis. 2d 533, 521 N.W.2d 181 (Ct. App. 1994).
Entering an outbuilding accessory to a main house may be a violation. 62 Atty.
Gen. 16.

Thanks Doug. So to recap, any employee can ask me to leave and unless I start leaving, I can be charged with trespassing.
 

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
imported post

It is my company's policy that no employee save a few of the upper echelon can "expel" a customer. It us understood (without documentation :what:) that the only person that can really expel someone from the shop is the owner. The example used is even if a customer is abusive or physical we can not tell that customer to leave.:banghead:
 

Packer fan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
399
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, United States
imported post

I worked asmanagerin the Pink-in-Save in Watertown, Wi,back about 98-2000 or so and this is how we handled things. Yes, any employee can ask you to leave but only if the top manager on duty has that authority to bar anyone. We once had a secret shopper security and he was able to bar people for shoplifting, but only the top manager on duty has any real power. Now that manager may delegate that authority but at that point the lower ranking is speaking for the top manager. Yes, if asked, always ask for the top manager on duty and then ask for the manger above him/her.


Plus, one manager may kick a customer out but unless you are well known the next manager my not even know who you are or even forget you were there the next time. We never called the police on anyone except shoplifters because it was a waste of time and bad publicity.
 

Deek

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
128
Location
Little Chute, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Finally got a response from Roundy's about this whole debacle.... I thought if I had a paper copy of their postition, It would save a whole lot of time and headaches.

But, what I got e-mailed to me seemed a little "snitty" to me.... as in

Dear Mr.-----------,
We will not issueyoua letter thatyou can carry to the stores. We have already sent an e-mail outlining our position on the topic of carrying firearms in our stores. Ifyou need something in writing,you can print off the e-mail. Thank you for shopping at Copps.
Thank you,
thats it.... unsigned and everything. So, is the e-mail that's elsewhere in this thread the one she's referring to? and is there or can we make up a list of places that have already said that they will follow state law or are gun friendly?
If I have to convince someone of my rightness, I'd like to have all "ammo" I need to be succcessful
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Deek wrote:
Finally got a response from Roundy's about this whole debacle.... I thought if I had a paper copy of their postition, It would save a whole lot of time and headaches.

But, what I got e-mailed to me seemed a little "snitty" to me.... as in

Dear Mr.-----------,
We will not issueyoua letter thatyou can carry to the stores. We have already sent an e-mail outlining our position on the topic of carrying firearms in our stores. Ifyou need something in writing,you can print off the e-mail. Thank you for shopping at Copps.
Thank you,
thats it.... unsigned and everything. So, is the e-mail that's elsewhere in this thread the one she's referring to? and is there or can we make up a list of places that have already said that they will follow state law or are gun friendly?
If I have to convince someone of my rightness, I'd like to have all "ammo" I need to be succcessful
Read in between the lines, that Therese lady, is being A SNOB & her letter also said, that if anyone is uneasy with you carrying in their stores, they will call the cops on your azz........screw Copps.
 

Deek

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
128
Location
Little Chute, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Actualy, I didn"t get the e-mail from Therse bailey.... I should of mentioned that, but from someone else named Christine Kovac. I'm all ok with not going to copps (kind of out of my way), but that would mean I wouldnt be able to go to Pick-n-Save(which I like) and be stuck with piggly wiggly or wally world. At least PnS hasn't told me to "take it elsewhere"....yet. Was planning on trying them out once this gets all straightened out
 
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