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Thread: finally got around to posting the audio from 2009

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Part one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNyP1frIJ3E
    Part two:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au-elzQf1Zw

    original thread:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/27448.html

    Marysville PD violates my 2nd amendment right at the request of the Meijer corporation. For the first time ever, here is the description of the incident prior to where the audio picks up:

    Responding officers:
    Sergeant William L. Trout
    Patrolman Timothy T. Phipps

    Incident occured between 1530 and 1600
    I was shopping, minding my own business. No employee had approached me asking me to leave or anything of that nature. I heard a voice behind me say, "hey you" or something like that. I started to turn, and that's when I noticed it was 2 police officers. Before I could turn around to address them, officer Trout grabbed my should with his left hand and jerked my gun from my holster with his right. At that point I turned around and said, "why are you taking my firearm? why are you touching my firearm?" Officer Trout said that someone at the store had called and asked them to "check me out" because I was carrying a gun. Officer Phipps asked if I had a CPL and I said that I did, but that it didn't matter because I was not concealing my firearm. I gave both my drivers license and my CPL to Officer Phipps. Officer Trout was very quick to point out that it was a "concealed" pistol license. I was very quick to point out that it didn't matter because I could still legally carry my firearm in plain sight. I asked if they had probable cause to detain me at this point since there had been no accusation of wrong-doing and I had not been asked to leave by Meijer personnel. I asked what cause they had to be detaining and searching me. Officer Phipps said they "didn't need probably cause" and Officer Trout said, "because I want to." The more I asked what probable cause they had to be detaining me, the more agitated the officers became until Officer Trout said, "that's it" and pushed me up against the store shelves and molested me with his hands. He felt all around my torso and front and back pocket on my shorts. He reached into both front pockets, removed the contents and replaced the contents. I was not read my rights. I was not told that I was being charged with any crime. I did not consent to a search of my person. I asked what law I had violated either the state of Michigan or Marysville and they could not, would not give me an answer. Officer Phipps asked why I couldn't just carry my gun concealed. I told him that I didn't need to give him a reason for why I was doing something legal, but I went on to tell him that it was more comfortable to OC in the summer and that in the winter, I frequently do conceal. Officer Phipps took great delight and found it humorous to ask me if I was in the Michigan militia or if I was a "wolverine". I didn't dignify him with a response. They kept trying to convince me that I should conceal the gun and I told them that it didn't matter because what I was doing was legal. The rest of the encounter is captured on the audio recording.

    *NOTE: IN THE VIDEO, I INCORRECTLY TELL THE OFFICER THAT "I DON'T NEED A PERMIT TO OPEN CARRY." SINCE MEIJER SELLS ALCOHOL, I DID NEED A PERMIT TO OPEN CARRY. SINCE I DO HAVE ONE IT WASN'T AN ISSUE.

    ** you can hear my daughter in the background. she was 6 at the time. she was a little upset about it, but she was pretty calm. the officers ignored the fact that she was with me and didn't say anything to her. i finished my shopping that day out of necessity, but haven't been back in a meijer since.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  2. #2
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    So what became of this? I remember when it first happened.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    nothing, they simply escorted me outside the store, illegally ran my springfield's serial number and let me go on my merry way. i did get a call from the police chief who asked me to come in and meet with him. here's what i wrote about it on the original thread:
    "i met with the marysville chief of police this morning. he reached out to me privately over 2 weeks ago and asked me to come in and speak to him man to man. i was touched by his gesture so i agreed, but i had to wait until i came back from vacation.
    we sat in his office for almost 40 minutes and had a fantastic discussion. he came off as a very reasonable and intelligent individual. there were points we discussed that we ended up agreeing to disagree upon, but it was still very friendly.
    out of mutual respect, i did not record the conversation. i didn't want to come across as aggressive and felt that the tape recorder would have, perhaps, made him less willing to speak freely. i feel that the whole experience was, overall, a positive learning experience for the marysville pd and i truly believe that in the future OC situations will be handled quit differently.
    i was encouraged that the chief did concede that certain aspects of the encounter were not handle correctly. i don't want to get into a lot of details because i feel that a mutual respect was established and some trust was earned. i do not intend to rake the marysville pd through the muck.
    i do not OC to get a reaction out of people. nor do i do it to try and "get rich" by taking someone to court. that's not to say that i don't think it's warrented in some cases (the chris fetters civil rights lawsuit would be one that i agree with)."

    one thing that stands out about my talk with the chief is that he said something about talking to the city attorney and that there was "something" i could have been charged with but they weren't going to. i think it might have been failure to disclose, which obviously is BS in an open carry situation. i just chuckled and told him that "if you could have charged me, you would have."
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member bandersnatch's Avatar
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    [Warning: Sarcasm Ahead]

    Oh smellslikemichigan,

    "Why don't you just make it easier for everybody and wear it on your belt under your shirt?"

    Ha, you know, like in life, liberty, and the pursuit of making it easier for everybody.

    Geez...


    ***former lurker known as "Ethan_Frome" since 2008.

    "Are you sure Hank done it this way?" - Waylon Jennings

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    id personally try to get the one officers badge taken away from him.


    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    id personally try to get the one officers badge taken away from him.

    *
    yeah, trout was the one who took my gun and later put me up against the shelves for a "pat down" in which he illegally searched my pockets and removed the contents. later, when i spoke to the chief, he agreed that searching my pockets without consent was unlawful. trout seems to have some serious anger issues, he was in my face the whole time and he couldn't stop shaking, like he was itching to kick my ass. it didn't help that i was relatively calm and didn't just bend over and take it the way most sheeple do.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    well go for his badge then,or sue...and since you said your not out looking for money,donate it(minus legal fees) to a good cause
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    since i wasn't arrested and no charges were filed, no lawyer was interested in taking the case. they all agreed there were illegal actions on the part of the LEOs, but they thought the results of a case against the department would be negligible.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Smells, thank-you for sharing your story. I imagine this event was difficult at the time, so let me thank-you for taking some punches for the rest of us.

    The lack of attorney interest is a serious issue, not just in OC encounters, but in many other legal conflicts as well. I feel like this is another area where many of us have not been adequately schooled in how to participate. I know I certainly feel ill equipped in dealing with the court system. There's no reason, besides lacking the know-how, that we shouldn't be able to try these cases ourselves.

  10. #10
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    contact steve dulan.

    good lawyer.



    888-737-6010
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  11. #11
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    I had a bad encounter with the police for OC last year, I hate when you have to educate the cops about something that they should know about already.

    Also I heard you had a Springfield, What kinda Springfield is it?

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    contact steve dulan.

    good lawyer.

    *

    888-737-6010
    i did.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    wally1120 wrote:
    I had a bad encounter with the police for OC last year, I hate when you have to educate the cops about something that they should know about already.

    Also I heard you had a Springfield, What kinda Springfield is it?
    xd9 subcompact
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  14. #14
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    CoonDog wrote:
    Smells, thank-you for sharing your story. I imagine this event was difficult at the time, so let me thank-you for taking some punches for the rest of us.

    The lack of attorney interest is a serious issue, not just in OC encounters, but in many other legal conflicts as well. I feel like this is another area where many of us have not been adequately schooled in how to participate. I know I certainly feel ill equipped in dealing with the court system. There's no reason, besides lacking the know-how, that we shouldn't be able to try these cases ourselves.
    You hit the nail on the head! If there isn't a good chance for a good pay out for the lawyer, they stay away.

    It was admitted that there were illegal actions that took place admitted by the Chief! It's ok thatLEO break the law, because they are the police. :shock:
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    The lawyers are probably right, there isn't much money to be made through a law suit, so that's why they're not interested in taking the case.

    What bothers me about this kind of reasoning; however, is that based on your description of the incident, you were ASSAULTED (i.e. a crime was committed).

    The LEO in question didn't just "hassle you", he used physical force to: 1) take your firearm 2) make you comply with the illegal search he conducted.

    If ANYONE else (i.e. a private citizen, store security guard etc.) walked up to someone who was legally OCing ... grabbed their gun, and then man handled them ... they would be facing assault charges.

    And that says nothing about the risk of someone getting shot over an incident like this (the OCer resists when the LEO tries to take the gun, perhaps by trying to grab the gun himself ... LEO interprets that as "guy is going for his gun" ... pulls his own weapon ... OCer interprets this as "cop is going to shoot me!" ... and bullets start flying ...)

    I have a several friends who are LEOs and generally have a lot of respect for LEOs (and the difficult job they do) ... but when I hear about cases like this I'm fully in support of pushing hard for the officers involved to be disciplined, terminated and perhaps even criminally charged.

    This kind of crap needs to stop ... for everyone's safety.

    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    since i wasn't arrested and no charges were filed, no lawyer was interested in taking the case. they all agreed there were illegal actions on the part of the LEOs, but they thought the results of a case against the department would be negligible.

  16. #16
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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    wally1120 wrote:
    I had a bad encounter with the police for OC last year, I hate when you have to educate the cops about something that they should know about already.

    Also I heard you had a Springfield, What kinda Springfield is it?
    xd9 subcompact
    Nice choice, I am looking into getting that model, I currently have a XD Compact 45 ACP.



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