rights for sale

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So all these ccw instructors that are tryin to fight 1108 cause they're afraid they'll loose money,these idiots would probly give up freedom of speech if the price was right.Money IS the route of all evil,this is proof all you have to do is involve $$$$ and you can get people to give up their rights and freedoms,well then again it aint nothin new look at the fools who went on survivor;gave up everything in hopes of $$$$.If people keep this up we'll be a third world country in no time........Just to clear things up I have my CCW so it does not affect me but others who cant afford it shouldnt have to be without their rights....If its not about money offer the ccw classes for free til then shut your pie whole and let people live WITH THEIR FREEDOMS!!!!!!!

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BINGO!

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Same goes for police who oppose the right to not only keep but BEAR arms. They think they are the only ones (as Codrea puts it) capable of safely handling firearms.

If I, Joe Non-felon 25-year-old Citizen can't be trusted with a pistol, why should some punk 19-year-old who signed up with the Sheriff's office, local PD or DPS and then got a semester's worth of training be any better?

If I see some cop on the side of a rural road getting beaten by some gang members, I'd better just drive on because a mundane like me obviously isn't good enough to help out. Hell, I've never had any iPhone training, so I shouldn't bother to call 911 coz I might do it wrong and somebody might get hurt.

I'd better put it up on the dash or get a paddle holster for it because concealing my iPhone makes me more likely to misuse it somehow.

Does anybody offer an 8-hour cell phone training course? I'd feel a lot better if somebody could make sure I know what I'm doing with this thing. Yeah I'm posting on here with it, but I'm sure an expert could help me operate it better.

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wait yur posting with it???wth are you thinking you just admitted you dont have a permit for that thing,shame on you...

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brokenbarrel wrote:

If its not about money offer the ccw classes for free til then shut your pie whole and let people live WITH THEIR FREEDOMS!!!!!!!

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It's always about the money. Always has been, always will be.

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brokenbarrel wrote:

wait yur posting with it???wth are you thinking you just admitted you dont have a permit for that thing,shame on you...

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yeah, I better watch out. I could accidentally show pr0n to kids when one of them wanted to see whitehouse.gov. I better get me some training or I could scar them kids for life.

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Remember this to. The same instructors against the bill would stop open carry if they could to

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My CCW instructor said she opposed it because she feared the loss of reciprocity with other states. She also told me that someone in favor of the (at the time) bill pointed out that licenses will still be available exactly how they are now, so having CCW will still be possible and carry the same benefits as they currently do. She continued to me that her reply to that person was that she would be good with that IF that is what is currently in the bill and becomes law, but she wanted to see it with her own eyes.

At 130 bucks for 1:1 training that went 9 hours I really doubt she's in it for the money, so chill.

Peace, out.

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She may teach 1:1 but most don't. The class I attended had around 25 to 30 students. That is a reasonably significant total fee at $100 per.

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EdB wrote:

She continued to me that her reply to that person was that she would be good with that IF that is what is currently in the bill and becomes law, but she wanted to see it with her own eyes.

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WTF? It's not like they keep the text of bills secret.

If you're not going to take someone's word for what's in it (which is fine in itself), why would your first reaction be to oppose it on the assumption that they're wrong?

The smart thing would be to remain neutral until you read it for yourself.

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EdB wrote:

My CCW instructor said she opposed it because she feared the loss of reciprocity with other states.  She also told me that someone in favor of the (at the time) bill pointed out that licenses will still be available exactly how they are now, so having CCW will still be possible and carry the same benefits as they currently do.  She continued to me that her reply to that person was that she would be good with that IF that is what is currently in the bill and becomes law, but she wanted to see it with her own eyes.

At 130 bucks for 1:1 training that went 9 hours I really doubt she's in it for the money, so chill.

Peace, out.

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I could have sworn the bill also changed some of the CCW requirements. Was that a different bill?

Also, I'm only 18, so I can't carry concealed when the bill passes anyway, but when I do become 21, I still plan to get my CCW. Mainly for reciprocity and bypassing the background check when purchasing firearms. Oh, and won't you still need a permit to carry in places that serve alcohol when this bill is passed, or am I just misremembering things?

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JesseL wrote

WTF? It's not like they keep the text of bills secret.

If you're not going to take someone's word for what's in it (which is fine in itself), why would your first reaction be to oppose it on the assumption that they're wrong?

The smart thing would be to remain neutral until you read it for yourself.

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While the text of a bill is not kept secret it is not carved in stone from day one, and not something I'd be inclined to interpret on my own.

I apologize if I created the wrong impression, but she had an opinion before someone tried to explain to her a detail that she either did not know or had been changed since formation of her opinion. In other words her first reaction was not to oppose based on an assumption of someone else being wrong. Upon hearing that her interpretation of what was currently in the bill was to accept a more open view: that she would want to verify this new information.

Personally I dig on jumping to a conclusion based on whatever I first hear, then developing a more informed opinion as I learn more over time. For example "I like traffic cameras" changes when I learn they are not webcams. I like webcams that watch traffic and put it on the web but I don't like still cameras that give me tickets in the mail for 2 miles over the speed limit. That disapproval changes when I learn they don't ticket you until you are 10 over.

Back on topic for this venue, I don't like *anything* that restricts my constitutional rights without a clear and obvious benefit to society in general. Sales to and possession of firearms by minors for example makes sense to me. The young person simply must accept that many things are not for them until they've had ample opportunity to grow and mature. (Age is not a promise of those things but is a reasonable tool so I'm good with it.)

As to this thread, the original poster seemed to think that CCW instructors who opposed this (bill/law) did so for love of money. THAT is a pathetic assumption that is not borne out of any factual information. Since my CCW instructor opposed because she valued what the CCW permit provided I felt inclined to point out the stupidity of assuming someone can magically know someone else's motives.

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I agree with others. My class had more than a 1:1 ratio and it was 70 dollars a pop. I don't disagree that you learn many things in the class, but I don't feel it should be a requirement to conceal a weapon. I personally believe it is a money issue as most won't be going to get a permit down the road.

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It's simple economics. As the demand decreases, so will supply. CCW permits will become a niche product, mostly for the few areas that require it and for out of state travel.

The price will go up.

The smart instructors will start providing more than just bare minimum CCW requirements. Just look at people like Gabe Suarez. A decent tactical shoot-and-move class or a pistol to rifle class, or even a handgun selection class can still make some money.

I'd also get into Made In Arizona guns, now that Firearms Freedom passed.

There's still a lot of money to be made. It will only be the lower quality instructors, the ones wholly dependent on government regulation and not on their own merits, who will be hurt by this.

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Oops, my iPhone stovepiped, made me post twice.

Looks like I need more training

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DustoneGT wrote:

Oops, my iPhone stovepiped, made me post twice.

Looks like I need more training

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get the vlingo app @ the app store.

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The Firearms Manufacturer I USED to work for went the same way; all about money, only the rich have rights. He loved restrictions because it made the price go up!

This is caused by FFLs. Once you're granted 'permission' from the government, you want a tighter monopoly because you can get rich off of it. Really doesn't matter what the topic is, that's how it goes.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day:

"Focusing your life solely on making a buck shows a certain poverty of ambition. It asks too little of yourself.” It's true... If all you have to do is lobby the government to make your monopoly more profitable, there really isn't much ambition (or capitalism) in that... Who would have thought that CCW Instructors and Gun Manufacturers were of the same feather as Blowbama?

I hope he sees that I used his words this way.

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EdB wrote:

The young person simply must accept that many things are not for them until they've had ample opportunity to grow and mature. (Age is not a promise of those things but is a reasonable tool so I'm good with it.)

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And how shall they grow into things they have no contact with?

My son has 3 guns. He got the 1st when he was 5. Maturity and responsibility were taught WITH them, not in their absence.

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brokenbarrel wrote:

So all these ccw instructors that are tryin to fight 1108 cause they're afraid they'll loose money,these idiots would probly give up freedom of speech if the price was right.Money IS the route of all evil,this is proof all you have to do is involve $$$$ and you can get people to give up their rights and freedoms,well then again it aint nothin new look at the fools who went on survivor;gave up everything in hopes of $$$$.If people keep this up we'll be a third world country in no time........Just to clear things up I have my CCW so it does not affect me but others who cant afford it shouldnt have to be without their rights....If its not about money offer the ccw classes for free til then shut your pie whole and let people live WITH THEIR FREEDOMS!!!!!!!

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Absolutely true money is the problem. The brady campaign, CCW instructors, LEO andmedia tried to work together for a common cause. It wouldn't surprise me to hear of handgun forums which accept advertising $$$ from CCW instructors and FFL's actually discourage open carry and private gun transfers.