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Thread: Newbie question - what is our purpose here?

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    I should start by saying that I have moved back to Tennessee after a long absence. I was living in another state that claims to allow concealed carry (not open) but in practice one had to be a crony of the Governor to receive a permit. I have always been a proponent of our Civil Rights under the Second Amendment.

    I have read through the rules, and several of the threads on here, and wanted to make sure I have the Forum's reasons for existing right before I put my foot in it somehow. It seems to me that we all want to:

    Correct the law and bring it into line with the Constitution as written, as the Founding Fathers wrote it and intended it to be, and

    To correct the enforcement of the laws to match how they are being brought into line, as above.

    Please, if I have that wrong, somebody set me straight.


    Thanks

    Z


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    John Pierce's recent comments will give more insight.

    Yata hey

    [line]
    Why 'Open Carry' Gun Laws Work
    Second Amendment or no, law-abiding citizens have the right to go about their business
    By John Pierce
    Posted April 15, 2010

    John Pierce, cofounder of OpenCarry.org, is a second-year student at Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minn., and holds an M.B.A. from George Mason University in Fairfax, Va.

    The phrase "open carry" refers to the act of law-abiding citizens carrying a properly holstered handgun in plain sight, wherever it is legal to do so, as they go about their daily lives. This includes such mundane tasks as driving to work, walking the dog, grabbing a cup of coffee at Starbucks, or buying a book at Barnes & Noble. Those who choose open carry are just going about their business while armed, just as do the 6 million-plus Americans who hold concealed-carry permits. The only difference—open carriers have taken their jackets off.

    . . .

    But with open carry legal in some form in 43 states, and with the practice becoming increasingly common, it is not surprising that citizens unfamiliar with the practice might have questions when they first see a neighbor carrying openly. And these questions are often directed to local law enforcement. One of our key missions at OpenCarry.org is to serve as an educational resource for citizens and law enforcement alike when such questions arise in order to insure that interactions between citizens and law enforcement respect both the rights of the citizen and the difficult job being performed by the officer. Interestingly, the increasing normality of open carry has helped to ensure that law enforcement officers across the country have been educated about its legality, rendering such encounters infrequent.

    So is open carry right for America? The answer is an unequivocal "yes!" Already present in the vast majority of states, the increasing popularity of the open-carry movement is a visible symbol that the right to bear arms remains a vital, core right of American citizens.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Thanks! That is indeed pretty much as I had gathered.

    Much as Ghandi worked to change unjust laws in his homeland through peaceful exercise of lawful actions, those who choose to OC are working to bring this issue to the forefront of public consciousness, and provide an example to the people whose lives they touch upon as they go about their legal, Constitutionally protected activities. This requires some guts, to say the least.

    You have our gratitude.


    Z

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    Our purpose is to be but pawns in HankT's sick world. :?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Our purpose is to be but pawns in HankT's sick world. :?
    Wishing him no ill will, his absence of late has has likely made a few hearts grow fonder.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Candygram for Tomahawk!

    Candygram for Tomahawk!

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    HankT wrote:

    Candygram for Tomahawk!

    Candygram for Tomahawk!
    Ah, there you are! I was beginning to get worried. The forum is boring when you're not around.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    Now if the Tenn. members will simply start writing and campaigning to change TN law and the TN. Constitution to provide for the unlicensed carry of firearms--Alaskan style...



    Too many people in this state seem enamored by the permit system--they either don't realize or don't care that the permit is merely meant to bring in more money for the state, nothing more or less.

    If I could I would move to a free state...I have always wanted to go to Alaska anyway.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    Now if the Tenn. members will simply start writing and campaigning to change TN law and the TN. Constitution to provide for the unlicensed carry of firearms--Alaskan style...



    Too many people in this state seem enamored by the permit system--they either don't realize or don't care that the permit is merely meant to bring in more money for the state, nothing more or less.

    If I could I would move to a free state...I have always wanted to go to Alaska anyway.
    Most that havea permit can care less about real freedom. The State has decided that people who cannot afford the $115 plus a class and ammo that cost another $80 or so, should not be able to defend themselves. Those who may be on probation for a class a misdemeanoror who have failed to pay child support, should not be able to defend themselves.

    The permits bring in $2 million a year @ 30,000 permitees per year after the $48 for the checks.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    You forgot "normal handgun" to go with your "properly holstered".

    Just specifying the true limitations imposed by this particular segment of the movement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    You forgot "normal handgun" to go with your "properly holstered".

    Just specifying the true limitations imposed by this particular segment of the movement.
    Never said I was without fault - leave it to you to keep me straight.

    That and I did say "short version." :?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    slowfiveoh wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    You forgot "normal handgun" to go with your "properly holstered".

    Just specifying the true limitations imposed by this particular segment of the movement.
    Never said I was without fault - leave it to you to keep me straight.

    That and I did say "short version." :?

    Yata hey
    Relax. It wasn't spiteful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    slowfiveoh wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    You forgot "normal handgun" to go with your "properly holstered".

    Just specifying the true limitations imposed by this particular segment of the movement.
    Never said I was without fault - leave it to you to keep me straight.

    That and I did say "short version." :?

    Yata hey
    Relax. It wasn't spiteful.
    Didn't take it as a flame - was giving you credit and with a smile.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
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    Right on
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    Now if the Tenn. members will simply start writing and campaigning to change TN law and the TN. Constitution to provide for the unlicensed carry of firearms--Alaskan style...



    Too many people in this state seem enamored by the permit system--they either don't realize or don't care that the permit is merely meant to bring in more money for the state, nothing more or less.

    If I could I would move to a free state...I have always wanted to go to Alaska anyway.
    Most that havea permit can care less about real freedom. The State has decided that people who cannot afford the $115 plus a class and ammo that cost another $80 or so, should not be able to defend themselves. Those who may be on probation for a class a misdemeanoror who have failed to pay child support, should not be able to defend themselves.

    The permits bring in $2 million a year @ 30,000 permitees per year after the $48 for the checks.
    As I have said--this state is about the mighty $$$$ that can be gained.

    $115 for the application
    $50-90 for the permit course
    $30-35 for the ammunition depending on what you shoot
    $15-30 for the weapon rental if you don't already own one.


    They will justify the permit by saying it is about "training"--training? an 8hr course--4 hours in the class where you listen to things the majority of which I learned when I was 6yrs old and my parents chose to teach me how to shoot, the rest of which I learned by reading. Then about 4hrs on the range where you spend it listening to the instructor walking the line telling you how to handle the firearm--which many already knew, and then you shoot from the 5, 10 and 15yd line and have to fire a certain amount of ammunition and make a "minimum score"--and then it is wham, bam, thank you ma'am you pass, take the pretty paper back to the Tn. Dept of Safety and send in your application after being printed--at a cost of $3 and wait about 30-35 days to get your permit in the mail and you're legal under Tn. law to carry a handgun in this state....

    BUT it is all about "training"---ask your state legislator and they will tell you so....what a crock. If it was about "training"--they would mandate that everyone 17-45 in the state of TN. be required to receive basic and advanced weapons and first aide training and be required to qualify once a year with their weapon--meaning they would basically have an IDF type draft where everyone was a citizen soldier. I mean if it is about "training"--the state should really make it about training.....

    This state does not care a bit more whether anyone has any "training" or not--it has always been about the $$$--always has been and unless things change, it always will be. That is why the permit course is the way it is--the only revision is the new change in TN. law where you can have a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol as long as you are not consuming and the facility is not posted......

    The permit is a pretty privilege that the state can give and the state can just as easily take away--and then you're left with a Chicago type situation where only the police and the criminals can carry--while the citizen is left to the wolves. A privilege is not a right.....You would think people would wake up and see that--but no, they are so enamored by the permit system and the state that gave it......they don't even realize what this state is about.

  17. #17
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    suntzu wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    Now if the Tenn. members will simply start writing and campaigning to change TN law and the TN. Constitution to provide for the unlicensed carry of firearms--Alaskan style...



    Too many people in this state seem enamored by the permit system--they either don't realize or don't care that the permit is merely meant to bring in more money for the state, nothing more or less.

    If I could I would move to a free state...I have always wanted to go to Alaska anyway.
    Most that havea permit can care less about real freedom. The State has decided that people who cannot afford the $115 plus a class and ammo that cost another $80 or so, should not be able to defend themselves. Those who may be on probation for a class a misdemeanoror who have failed to pay child support, should not be able to defend themselves.

    The permits bring in $2 million a year @ 30,000 permitees per year after the $48 for the checks.
    As I have said--this state is about the mighty $$$$ that can be gained.

    $115 for the application
    $50-90 for the permit course
    $30-35 for the ammunition depending on what you shoot
    $15-30 for the weapon rental if you don't already own one.


    They will justify the permit by saying it is about "training"--training? an 8hr course--4 hours in the class where you listen to things the majority of which I learned when I was 6yrs old and my parents chose to teach me how to shoot, the rest of which I learned by reading. Then about 4hrs on the range where you spend it listening to the instructor walking the line telling you how to handle the firearm--which many already knew, and then you shoot from the 5, 10 and 15yd line and have to fire a certain amount of ammunition and make a "minimum score"--and then it is wham, bam, thank you ma'am you pass, take the pretty paper back to the Tn. Dept of Safety and send in your application after being printed--at a cost of $3 and wait about 30-35 days to get your permit in the mail and you're legal under Tn. law to carry a handgun in this state....

    BUT it is all about "training"---ask your state legislator and they will tell you so....what a crock. If it was about "training"--they would mandate that everyone 17-45 in the state of TN. be required to receive basic and advanced weapons and first aide training and be required to qualify once a year with their weapon--meaning they would basically have an IDF type draft where everyone was a citizen soldier. I mean if it is about "training"--the state should really make it about training.....

    This state does not care a bit more whether anyone has any "training" or not--it has always been about the $$$--always has been and unless things change, it always will be. That is why the permit course is the way it is--the only revision is the new change in TN. law where you can have a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol as long as you are not consuming and the facility is not posted......

    The permit is a pretty privilege that the state can give and the state can just as easily take away--and then you're left with a Chicago type situation where only the police and the criminals can carry--while the citizen is left to the wolves. A privilege is not a right.....You would think people would wake up and see that--but no, they are so enamored by the permit system and the state that gave it......they don't even realize what this state is about.
    If you go back and listen to judiciary committee meetings in 1997 when they raised the fee from $100 to $115 you'll find out that law abiding citizens paid for the fingerprinting machines and personnel in Tennessee to process all fingerprints. Instead of that money coming from the general fund of all tax payers they made law abiding citizens who wanted carry permits fund the project which mainly is used for identifying criminals thoughout the State.



    What many people do not care about is our State Constitution. I'll bet if challenged in a court that most of the training might be declared unconstitutional. The Legislature may only regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime. How does shooting 50 rounds down range prevent crime? How does teaching the different parts of a handgun prevent crime?

    The law also prohibits people who do not pay child support from carrying a handgun. How is that Constitutional?

    Obviously in my case they have prevented me from carrying, yet I have not been charged with anything. How is that Constitutional? I've already challenged this in Chancery Court and still waiting the answer.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    That's the short version.

    Yata hey
    Now if the Tenn. members will simply start writing and campaigning to change TN law and the TN. Constitution to provide for the unlicensed carry of firearms--Alaskan style...



    Too many people in this state seem enamored by the permit system--they either don't realize or don't care that the permit is merely meant to bring in more money for the state, nothing more or less.

    If I could I would move to a free state...I have always wanted to go to Alaska anyway.
    Most that havea permit can care less about real freedom. The State has decided that people who cannot afford the $115 plus a class and ammo that cost another $80 or so, should not be able to defend themselves. Those who may be on probation for a class a misdemeanoror who have failed to pay child support, should not be able to defend themselves.

    The permits bring in $2 million a year @ 30,000 permitees per year after the $48 for the checks.
    As I have said--this state is about the mighty $$$$ that can be gained.

    $115 for the application
    $50-90 for the permit course
    $30-35 for the ammunition depending on what you shoot
    $15-30 for the weapon rental if you don't already own one.


    They will justify the permit by saying it is about "training"--training? an 8hr course--4 hours in the class where you listen to things the majority of which I learned when I was 6yrs old and my parents chose to teach me how to shoot, the rest of which I learned by reading. Then about 4hrs on the range where you spend it listening to the instructor walking the line telling you how to handle the firearm--which many already knew, and then you shoot from the 5, 10 and 15yd line and have to fire a certain amount of ammunition and make a "minimum score"--and then it is wham, bam, thank you ma'am you pass, take the pretty paper back to the Tn. Dept of Safety and send in your application after being printed--at a cost of $3 and wait about 30-35 days to get your permit in the mail and you're legal under Tn. law to carry a handgun in this state....

    BUT it is all about "training"---ask your state legislator and they will tell you so....what a crock. If it was about "training"--they would mandate that everyone 17-45 in the state of TN. be required to receive basic and advanced weapons and first aide training and be required to qualify once a year with their weapon--meaning they would basically have an IDF type draft where everyone was a citizen soldier. I mean if it is about "training"--the state should really make it about training.....

    This state does not care a bit more whether anyone has any "training" or not--it has always been about the $$$--always has been and unless things change, it always will be. That is why the permit course is the way it is--the only revision is the new change in TN. law where you can have a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol as long as you are not consuming and the facility is not posted......

    The permit is a pretty privilege that the state can give and the state can just as easily take away--and then you're left with a Chicago type situation where only the police and the criminals can carry--while the citizen is left to the wolves. A privilege is not a right.....You would think people would wake up and see that--but no, they are so enamored by the permit system and the state that gave it......they don't even realize what this state is about.
    The Legislature may only regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime. How does shooting 50 rounds down range prevent crime? How does teaching the different parts of a handgun prevent crime?

    The law also prohibits people who do not pay child support from carrying a handgun. How is that Constitutional?

    Obviously in my case they have prevented me from carrying, yet I have not been charged with anything. How is that Constitutional? I've already challenged this in Chancery Court and still waiting the answer.
    First, since when do they care about the Constitution--they take the parts they want while flippantly dismissing the parts they don't--namely the 2nd Amendment.

    Second--I am still waiting for my elected representatives to kindly explain to me how the legislature regulating the wearing of arms has prevented any crime--criminals certainly don't care what regulations the legislature sees fit to place--they will always get their guns and carry them--illegally I might add--but since when does the legislature actually care about the law abiding citizen?

    Third--it is about the mighty $$$, it always has been, and always will be. If this state could figure out how to tax the air we breathe they would do it--I have no doubt about that.



  19. #19
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    kwikrnu wrote: As I have said--this state is about the mighty $$$$ that can be gained.

    $115 for the application
    $50-90 for the permit course
    $30-35 for the ammunition depending on what you shoot
    $15-30 for the weapon rental if you don't already own one.


    They will justify the permit by saying it is about "training"--training? an 8hr course--4 hours in the class where you listen to things the majority of which I learned when I was 6yrs old and my parents chose to teach me how to shoot, the rest of which I learned by reading. Then about 4hrs on the range where you spend it listening to the instructor walking the line telling you how to handle the firearm--which many already knew, and then you shoot from the 5, 10 and 15yd line and have to fire a certain amount of ammunition and make a "minimum score"--and then it is wham, bam, thank you ma'am you pass, take the pretty paper back to the Tn. Dept of Safety and send in your application after being printed--at a cost of $3 and wait about 30-35 days to get your permit in the mail and you're legal under Tn. law to carry a handgun in this state....

    BUT it is all about "training"---ask your state legislator and they will tell you so....what a crock. If it was about "training"--they would mandate that everyone 17-45 in the state of TN. be required to receive basic and advanced weapons and first aide training and be required to qualify once a year with their weapon--meaning they would basically have an IDF type draft where everyone was a citizen soldier. I mean if it is about "training"--the state should really make it about training.....

    This state does not care a bit more whether anyone has any "training" or not--it has always been about the $$$--always has been and unless things change, it always will be. That is why the permit course is the way it is--the only revision is the new change in TN. law where you can have a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol as long as you are not consuming and the facility is not posted......

    The permit is a pretty privilege that the state can give and the state can just as easily take away--and then you're left with a Chicago type situation where only the police and the criminals can carry--while the citizen is left to the wolves. A privilege is not a right.....You would think people would wake up and see that--but no, they are so enamored by the permit system and the state that gave it......they don't even realize what this state is about.
    This is what I mean by the Concealed Carry Instructor Industry (C2I2) and the financial gain that is made by some in supporting the turning of a right into a priveledge. The NRA and their instructor certification program are the biggest C2I2 beneficiaries. They often work to include NRA certified instructor training as one of the requirements for the priveledge of CC. It is indeed an incestuous relationship.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    This is what I mean by the Concealed Carry Instructor Industry (C2I2) and the financial gain that is made by some in supporting the turning of a right into a priveledge. The NRA and their instructor certification program are the biggest C2I2 beneficiaries. They often work to include NRA certified instructor training as one of the requirements for the priveledge of CC. It is indeed an incestuous relationship.
    The commissioner of safety is the one who decides if the qualifications are good enough to teach the class. IMO, this makes the whole process subjective. The entire permitting system is corrupt in Tennessee.

    My constitutional challenge to the law will be transfered from Williamson County Chancery Court to Davidson County next week and the AG asked for 15 additional days to work on his answer to my complaint.
    Last edited by kwikrnu; 07-03-2010 at 04:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    This is what I mean by the Concealed Carry Instructor Industry (C2I2) and the financial gain that is made by some in supporting the turning of a right into a priveledge. The NRA and their instructor certification program are the biggest C2I2 beneficiaries. They often work to include NRA certified instructor training as one of the requirements for the priveledge of CC. It is indeed an incestuous relationship.
    Which is one reason among many why I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the NRA.

    What I learned in my state sponsored privilege course I had already learned from my parents, and from lots and lots of reading.

    We should be a free state--but until the people of Tennessee wake up and start working their legislators often, it will not happen. Sadly, the majority in TN seem content with their pretty privilege and hold it as some form of sacred cow that should never be messed with.

    It is a shame, it really is-because TN could be as gun friendly as AZ and AK if the people would only wake up and work for it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post

    My constitutional challenge to the law will be transfered from Williamson County Chancery Court to Davidson County next week and the AG asked for 15 additional days to work on his answer to my complaint.
    Are they hoping that you will just give in and fade away? It would seem to me they have had plenty of time to answer your complaint....

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Are they hoping that you will just give in and fade away? It would seem to me they have had plenty of time to answer your complaint....
    They've only had about a month since I filed my writ of mandamus in chancery court. I spoke with the attorney working my case today. He called me from the office, working. They must be backed up to be working on 4th of July weekends. I should have filed it in Davidson County to start with, but I didn't know until I had already filed it in Williamson County.

    Here is what I asked for in my suit I filed on May 25, 2010:

    1. Hearing for Writ of Mandamus, and or injunctive relief be had on these matters.
    2. An order declaring Tennessee law restricting open carry of handguns to those only meeting the standards of TCA 39-17-1351 void as unconstitutional.
    3. An order declaring TCA 39-17-1352(a)(3) void as being vague.
    4. An order permanently enjoining the respondents, their officers, agents, servants, employees, and all persons in active concert or participation with them from enforcing Tennessee State Law TCA 39-17-1307(a) through 39-17-1307(b), barring the loaded carry of a firearm by those who are not criminals.
    5. An order permanently enjoining the respondents, their officers, agents, servants, employees, and all persons in active concert or participation with them from enforcing Tennessee State Law TCA 39-17-1352(a)(3) upon those who have not been charged with a crime, convicted of a crime, or adjudicated mentally deficient.
    6. An order declaring Leonard Embody immediately be reinstated as a valid permit holder and receive both handgun carry permits which were turned in to the Tennessee Department of Safety.
    7. An order that the Tennessee Department of Safety administrative court hearing on whether Leonard Embody is a “material likelihood of risk to the public be postponed until one month after the ruling of this court or in the alternative be dismissed and handgun permits returned.
    8. Attorney fees and costs pursuant to TCA 39-17-1358(c)
    9. Declaratory relief consistent with the injunction.
    10. Costs of suit

  24. #24
    Regular Member RussP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Are they hoping that you will just give in and fade away? It would seem to me they have had plenty of time to answer your complaint....
    Actually, it is just the opposite.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    They've only had about a month since I filed my writ of mandamus in chancery court. I spoke with the attorney working my case today. He called me from the office, working. They must be backed up to be working on 4th of July weekends. I should have filed it in Davidson County to start with, but I didn't know until I had already filed it in Williamson County.

    Here is what I asked for in my suit I filed on May 25, 2010:

    1. Hearing for Writ of Mandamus, and or injunctive relief be had on these matters.
    2. An order declaring Tennessee law restricting open carry of handguns to those only meeting the standards of TCA 39-17-1351 void as unconstitutional.
    3. An order declaring TCA 39-17-1352(a)(3) void as being vague.
    4. An order permanently enjoining the respondents, their officers, agents, servants, employees, and all persons in active concert or participation with them from enforcing Tennessee State Law TCA 39-17-1307(a) through 39-17-1307(b), barring the loaded carry of a firearm by those who are not criminals.
    5. An order permanently enjoining the respondents, their officers, agents, servants, employees, and all persons in active concert or participation with them from enforcing Tennessee State Law TCA 39-17-1352(a)(3) upon those who have not been charged with a crime, convicted of a crime, or adjudicated mentally deficient.
    6. An order declaring Leonard Embody immediately be reinstated as a valid permit holder and receive both handgun carry permits which were turned in to the Tennessee Department of Safety.
    7. An order that the Tennessee Department of Safety administrative court hearing on whether Leonard Embody is a “material likelihood of risk to the public be postponed until one month after the ruling of this court or in the alternative be dismissed and handgun permits returned.
    8. Attorney fees and costs pursuant to TCA 39-17-1358(c)
    9. Declaratory relief consistent with the injunction.
    10. Costs of suit

    If they are enjoined from enforcing 39-17-1307(a) through 39-17-1307(b) what it essentially gives us is a free state--until of course this miserable money hungry legislature we have changes the law and it goes back to being a non-free privilege only state.

    unless I read it wrong of course.

    Here is to hoping that you win kwik.

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