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Thread: e-Trace is essentially a Federal Gun Registration System...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    It's not a "conspiracy theory" when they admit it in print, folks...

    When your firearm is seized so that an LEO can "run the serial# to be sure it's not stolen", what they are REALLY doing is most likely running the serial# through e-Trace, a nation-wide system operated by BATFE for tracing and tracking firearms, and then amending the database with your ID info for that particular firearm.

    According to a recent article in the Feb 2010 issue of "The Police Chief" (an LE professionals magazine), one of the capabilities of e-Trace is that it allows anyone who does a query on a specific serial# to "add information on possessors or completed firearm descriptions", as described in this excerpt from the article:
    Other eTrace Capabilities
    eTrace allows for updating trace requests, adding information on possessors or completed firearms descriptions when it becomes available, and accepting batch trace submissions electronically from individual, department-generated data extracts.
    You can read the entire article here:

    http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/m...issue_id=22010

    Just another reason to never give them your ID if you don't live in a state with "stop and identify" laws. If they don't have your name and address, they can't put it in their database...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 05-13-2012 at 11:18 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    You think this has been e-checked? :P That is my personal firearm. WSP = Washington State Patrol.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Yes, this is a very big threat to RKBA. My advice to all is to purchase old hand guns and pre-1968 rifles and shotguns that do not have serial numbers.

    The firearms that have no numbers are not traceable, and therefore will be impossible to account for when gun registration and/or gun confiscation is promulgated.

    You can sometimes find these firearms on Auction Arms or Gunbroker, but smart sellers know that these weapons can be sold for more than they otherwise would be worth.

    My other bit of advice is to buy 80% guns without serial numbers and finish them yourself.


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    At OCDO there are two things that are not tolerated, open carry intolerance and long gun open carry.
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    You have to put an SN on your 80% guns to be legal, so this is no different than buying a gun from a private seller. Either way, the gun will end up in the system if it gets looked at. If it doesn't have an SN, you're in a whole different world of problems. My hand guns are all transferred through FFls, so I'm already "registered".

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    You think this has been e-checked? :PÂ* That is my personal firearm. WSP = Washington State Patrol.

    So I've gotta ask, what got the sticker put on there in the first place?
    Everything posted by me should be viewed is hypothetical ONLY. And should not be viewed or understood as my opinion, a suggestion, or recommendation to or not to preform or take any action.

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    Thundar wrote:
    Yes, this is a very big threat to RKBA. My advice to all is to purchase old hand guns and pre-1968 rifles and shotguns that do not have serial numbers.

    The firearms that have no numbers are not traceable, and therefore will be impossible to account for when gun registration and/or gun confiscation is promulgated.

    You can sometimes find these firearms on Auction Arms or Gunbroker, but smart sellers know that these weapons can be sold for more than they otherwise would be worth.

    My other bit of advice is to buy 80% guns without serial numbers and finish them yourself.
    Thundar,

    Come on man...people buy and sell guns all the time...there is no record or a way to track where my guns have gone (unless ffl is used each time) and I don't remember what lake they fell into...lol.

    And if/when the time comes, people will probablybe dead when they read the #'s off of rifles or pistols. Why not have the best equipment on hand?


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    Shawn wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Yes, this is a very big threat to RKBA.Â* My advice to all is to purchase old hand guns and pre-1968 rifles and shotguns that do not have serial numbers.Â*

    The firearms that have no numbers are not traceable, and therefore will be impossible to account for when gun registration and/or gun confiscation is promulgated.

    You can sometimes find these firearms on Auction Arms or Gunbroker, but smart sellers know that these weapons can be sold for more than they otherwise would be worth.

    My other bit of advice is to buy 80% guns without serial numbers and finish them yourself.Â*
    Thundar,

    Come on man...people buy and sell guns all the time...there is no record or a way to track where my guns have gone (unless ffl is used each time) and I don't remember what lake they fell into...lol.

    And if/when the time comes, people will probablyÂ*be dead when they read the #'s off of rifles or pistols.Â* Why not have the best equipment on hand?
    Because you can't buy modern Class III weapons? :P
    Everything posted by me should be viewed is hypothetical ONLY. And should not be viewed or understood as my opinion, a suggestion, or recommendation to or not to preform or take any action.

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    Shawn wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Yes, this is a very big threat to RKBA. My advice to all is to purchase old hand guns and pre-1968 rifles and shotguns that do not have serial numbers.

    The firearms that have no numbers are not traceable, and therefore will be impossible to account for when gun registration and/or gun confiscation is promulgated.

    You can sometimes find these firearms on Auction Arms or Gunbroker, but smart sellers know that these weapons can be sold for more than they otherwise would be worth.

    My other bit of advice is to buy 80% guns without serial numbers and finish them yourself.
    Thundar,

    Come on man...people buy and sell guns all the time...there is no record or a way to track where my guns have gone (unless ffl is used each time) and I don't remember what lake they fell into...lol.

    And if/when the time comes, people will probablybe dead when they read the #'s off of rifles or pistols. Why not have the best equipment on hand?
    They fell into the Atlantic Ocean. Send BATFE looking for them.

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    Dreamer wrote:
    According to a recent article in the Feb 2010 issue of "The Police Chief" (an LE professionals magazine), one of the capabilities of e-Trace is that it allows anyone who does a query on a specific serial# to "add information on possessors or completed firearm descriptions", as described in this excerpt from the article:

    Other eTrace CapabilitieseTrace allows for updating trace requests, adding information on possessors or completed firearms descriptions when it becomes available, and accepting batch trace submissions electronically from individual, department-generated data extracts.
    You can read the entire article here:

    http://policechiefmagazine.org/magaz...issue_id=22010
    Hmm, OK, does anyone know of the controlling statute and regulation associated with E-Trace?

    I find it hard to believe that personally identifiable information and firearm serial numbers are being added to federal databases merely because a local police officer temporarily secured a firearm during, say, a routine traffic stop.

    I also thought the article was a bit of a puffed up marketing pitch for E-Trace - it did not explain for example that the trace can only be finished after an existing FFL looks up the 4473, or BATFE employee does for files it has taken control of from FFLs who go out of business; that FFLs can and sometimes do destroy 4473s 20 years after sale; that subsequent LEGAL private transfers in many or most cases make the effort end up in an Etrace to nowhere; and nowhere did I see the article cite to statistics of crime solved by E-Trace.

    Anyway, I want to learn more about this - maybe Congress needs to step in and either require that 4473s be promptly destroyed after a firearm transfer is complete, or drastiocally shorten the time at which FFLs must or even may retain the files.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    cabbitone wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    You think this has been e-checked? :P That is my personal firearm. WSP = Washington State Patrol.

    So I've gotta ask, what got the sticker put on there in the first place?
    Was in a very bad car accident, lots of injuries ( I was injured the worse), I was running around helping everyone out when the trooper and paramedics finally made me lay on the stretcher to take me to the hospital the trooper asked to remove firearm and I can get it later.

    He also asked if I had a CPL, I stated somewhere in the vehicle, he said " It don't matter you are open carrying anyway". While in the ambulance another officer came in to give me some bad news and also informed me where to pick up weapon.

    Since I was in hospital longer than expected and then had no transportation,and injuredto the point walking and mobility was restrictedthe officer in charge of evidence hand delivered my firearm to me. I have to give a big Kudos to our State Patrol. Since I bought the firearm at the dealer it is already is registered fully to me so no worries there.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
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    The police say I am paranoid, but each time a story like this surfaces it shows I had reason to be.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    And as if the e-Trace system used domestically wasn't enough to make you REALLY paranoid, the BATFE recently announced they are making e-Trace available and accessible to the Belgian government and police.

    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...agreement.html

    Why should this make you paranoid? Because Belgium is the headquarters of the EU, and the European HQ of the UN, and it also has Euro HQs for the IMF, World Bank and BIS. Begium is, essentially, the European Headquarters of the non-existent "New World Order", who doesn't exist, and doesn't want to take away your guns, your free speech, your sovereignty, and definitely doesn't want to place the entire planet into bankster-controlled serfdom...

    And don't think that Belgium is the first foreign nation to adopt e-Trace. According to the ATF's own website, there is a bushel of other nations already using it, and they all have access to each other's data--including OUR data...

    Foreign countries currently using eTrace include: Anguilla, Antigua, Aruba, Australia, the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Belize, Canada, Cayman Islands, Costa Rica, Curacao, Dominica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Germany, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Jamaica, Japan, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago, and the United Kingdom.
    http://www.atf.gov/publications/fact...et-etrace.html

    But the BATFE-Belgium e-Trace collaboration shouldn't raise any alarms. Nothing to see here, folks, just move along...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarryOpen View Post
    You have to put an SN on your 80% guns to be legal, so this is no different than buying a gun from a private seller. ...
    You should re read the law and check out what BAFTE has said about it. Last I did so it seemed to indicate the SN was needed upon transfer to another person.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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