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Thread: Third anniversary

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    As you probably know, today is the third anniversary of the mass murder at Virginia Tech.

    Many friends and acquaintances are marking this day to remember the victims and their families. I would like to join them, but not by hand-wringing and merely "wishing" it hadn't happened.

    Does anyone have a link to a good essay that remembers these victims, but that also calls into question why we still require our college campuses to be large free-target zones?

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I'm going to start you off here: http://mostlycajun.com/wordpress/

    It's not an essay as such. Just a note on what happened.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    John Connors' response to the Tech shootings best exemplifies how I feel.

    It is not gentle and goes straight to the heart of the matter.

    Read it and see what you think.

    http://www.gunsmagazine.com/Odd0907.html

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thanks, Grape. Good read.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    I haven't yet found a link URL but Noon news on WABC AM77 NY mentioned a report that school mass shootings continue to increase, often due to broken hearts, and mentioned 281 school shooting deaths.

    As usual the controllers are dancing in the blood of innocents.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    John Connors' response to the Tech shootings best exemplifies how I feel.

    It is not gentle and goes straight to the heart of the matter.

    Read it and see what you think.

    http://www.gunsmagazine.com/Odd0907.html

    Yata hey
    Did anyone else have trouble with non-printing characters in that link?

    I found a copy here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n27320077/

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    I haven't yet found a link URL but Noon news on WABC AM77 NY mentioned a report that school mass shootings continue to increase, often due to broken hearts, and mentioned 281 school shooting deaths.

    As usual the controllers are dancing in the blood of innocents.
    I do not think this is complete, but it is fairly extensive.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elated_attacks

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    That list is almost as long as the number of wars our government has initiated!
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    3 years since the gun ban was shown to be a victim disarmament zone, and the Commonwealth legislature has still failed to direct that state universities and colleges allow students to defend themselves.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    3 years since the gun ban was shown to be a victim disarmament zone, and the Commonwealth legislature has still failed to direct that state universities and colleges allow students to defend themselves.
    That is the real crux of the problem.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I was discussing this with a guy the other night. He said allowing students to be armed would kill innocents????????????

    Typical libtard strawman arguements. He argued that allowing guns may not have prevented the killings. I retorted that banning weapons for self defense sure did not help any of the victims. At least they would have had a chance.

    One thing is very certain: the defenseless victim zone (GFZ) did not save anyone.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

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    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    riverrat10k wrote:
    I was discussing this with a guy the other night. He said allowing students to be armed would kill innocents????????????

    Typical libtard strawman arguements. He argued that allowing guns may not have prevented the killings. I retorted that banning weapons for self defense sure did not help any of the victims. At least they would have had a chance.

    One thing is very certain: the defenseless victim zone (GFZ) did not save anyone.
    I feel very strongly about this and think that I have shocked a few into thinking for themselves. Their reply to my "one defensive gun could have made such a difference," is "You don't know that." Always done with a scowl and a sideways shake of the head dismissing my radical thought.

    You're right, but the absence guaranteed that that they would not see another beautiful sunrise.

    There are a litany of other reasons we hear about why guns don't belong here or there - I cannot but lay the blame on those that would guarantee the outcome when things go bad.

    Always have and always will fault the Va.Tech administration and our GA equally for permitting this guarantee to be in place.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Lori Haas (VT)v Suzanna Hupp (Luby's), each seeking different solutions to the same problem, to wit, how to best protect a gathering of innocents againstindiscriminant slaughterby a gun wielding attacker.

    Rules prohibitng weapons have only limited effectiveness, as they will usually only be honored by law-abiding individuals. To discourage others, more draconian measures are needed.

    Unless each and every individual seeking access to the gathering place is searched for weapons,the attacker can gain legitimate access to the gathering,creating an internal threat, for whichthere is no premptive defense. (Sometimes, even physical barriers are insufficient.)

    The only effectivedefense is reactive, anditmust come from within the gathering,such asfrom armed security staff person(s) (LEO, etc) and/or armed member(s) of the gathering. Any response must be immediatelydirected at the attacker with the intent of neutralizing the threat. Clearly, the identification of the attacker(s) within the midst of a confused, panicked crowd will be difficult, and there is risk that one or more defenders will mistake another defender as an attacker, which may result in "friendly fire" casualties.

    But we already know the alternatives.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    (snip) Clearly, the identification of the attacker(s) within the midst of a confused, panicked crowd will be difficult, and there is risk that one or more defenders will mistake another defender as an attacker, which may result in "friendly fire" casualties.

    But we already know the alternatives.
    I would disagree with your over-generalized assertion above. "Most" of those who would carry for their personal defense will be aware of the elemental Rules of Engagement and the "4 Rules" to the point of waiting for a clear and clean shot. "Some" who have availed themselves of "advanced" training and are willing to rush the attacker will (hopefully) be seen by the rest as not another attacker but someone dynamically responsing to the attack(er). And all that is said with the knowledge that my statements are as over-generalized as yours. It's just that no one can know how a dynamic situation will play out.

    Anybody want to set up a large-scale Force-on-Force exercise and play through a few rounds of the basic scenario? At least then we could critique what took place rather than speculating based on nothing but guesses.

    As for "But we already know the alternatives" - Amen, brother! Amen! Gun Free Zone = Victim Disarmament Zone = Beyond This Point Only Criminals Have Firearms. wish they had signs like that posted.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    As for "But we already know the alternatives" - Amen, brother! Amen! Gun Free Zone = Victim Disarmament Zone = Beyond This Point Only Criminals Have Firearms. wish they had signs like that posted.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    + Enter At Your Own Risk

    Might give pause to those whose head is otherwise deeply embedded.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    As for "But we already know the alternatives" - Amen, brother! Amen! Gun Free Zone = Victim Disarmament Zone = Beyond This Point Only Criminals Have Firearms. wish they had signs like that posted.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    + Enter At Your Own Risk

    Might give pause to those whose head is otherwise deeply embedded.

    Yata hey
    Firearms(regardless of who has them) "Beyond This Point..." would make posting "Enter At Your Own Risk" signs a mandate for both sides.


    If this has a familiar ring, the exact same arguments were madeabout firearms carry in Nat'l Parks. "Bringing guns into the park makes it unsafe." vs "We need to bring our guns because there's danger in there." At least now (post 2/22/2010)we can make our own choices when entering one of these venues.

    18th v 21st amendments, anyone?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    As for "But we already know the alternatives" - Amen, brother! Amen! Gun Free Zone = Victim Disarmament Zone = Beyond This Point Only Criminals Have Firearms. wish they had signs like that posted.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    + Enter At Your Own Risk

    Might give pause to those whose head is otherwise deeply embedded.

    Yata hey
    Firearms(regardless of who has them) "Beyond This Point..." would make posting "Enter At Your Own Risk" signs a mandate for both sides.


    If this has a familiar ring, the exact same arguments were madeabout firearms carry in Nat'l Parks. "Bringing guns into the park makes it unsafe." vs "We need to bring our guns because there's danger in there." At least now (post 2/22/2010)we can make our own choices when entering one of these venues.

    18th v 21st amendments, anyone?
    Reference to
    Gun Free Zone
    Victim Disarmament Zone
    Beyond This Point Only Criminals Have Firearms
    Enter At Your Own Risk


    was, I thought, an obviously intended warning to unarmed potential victims and not to any notion otherwise.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
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    My prof. cancelled class Fri. so I ended up making a trip to Blacksburg this weekend. Apr. 16 I OC'd like I always do everyday. OC'd at Walmart with no issues (the one I remember reading someone got asked to leave at) as well as Dicks Sporting Goods (again, no issues). OC'd everywhere else I went too. I didn't spend much time on campus though, a few of the roads there were closed Fri anyways.

    All I can say is driving past Montgomery Regional Hospital yesterday brought back some bad memories of 3 years ago...

  19. #19
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    As for "But we already know the alternatives" - Amen, brother! Amen! Gun Free Zone = Victim Disarmament Zone = Beyond This Point Only Criminals Have Firearms. wish they had signs like that posted.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    + Enter At Your Own Risk

    Might give pause to those whose head is otherwise deeply embedded.

    Yata hey
    Firearms(regardless of who has them) "Beyond This Point..." would make posting "Enter At Your Own Risk" signs a mandate for both sides.


    If this has a familiar ring, the exact same arguments were madeabout firearms carry in Nat'l Parks. "Bringing guns into the park makes it unsafe." vs "We need to bring our guns because there's danger in there." At least now (post 2/22/2010)we can make our own choices when entering one of these venues.

    18th v 21st amendments, anyone?
    Reference to


    Gun Free Zone
    Victim Disarmament Zone


    Beyond This Point Only Criminals Have Firearms
    Enter At Your Own Risk


    was, I thought, an obviously intended warning to unarmed potential victims and not to any notion otherwise.

    Yata hey
    Andit would be nice ifthe Anti's sign also allowed for personal responsibility for one's own safety.


    Gun Free Zone
    No Weapons Allowed


    Enter At Your Own Risk

    like the signs posted at beaches & swimming pools

    No Lifeguard On Duty

    Swim At Your Own Risk
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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