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Thread: Arizona Governor Signs Bill For Concealed Carry Without Permit

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...amp;forum_id=4

    This is the kind of governor we need! Open Carry AND concealed carry with no government license!



    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    McX
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    historic. means nothing here, but at least it's on the same continent.

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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    This is why a state, such as WI, should allow a permit system @ first for CC, as long as it doesn't change the permit-less OC. Once people, and more importantly politicians, put 1 & 1 together, then constitutional carry can become law.

    Right now, WI has those that still spew the "blood in the streets" argument, that's been proven untrue 30+ times in the past 20 years. But, if a permitted CC system were to pass, eventually, like AZ, politicians would see that 1) CC has caused no problems, 2) OC has caused no problems, so it can be assumed that those who put 1/16" thick piece of clothing over their otherwise OC'd handgun should cause no problems.

    In 1993 AZ was an OC only state, they got a permitted system, and now, a permit-less (unless one is wanted for reciprocity) system.

    AK did it even faster, they went from no CC in 1994 to Constitutional carry in 2005.

    Sooner or later, once enough states pass Constitutional carry, those that hold out will have less and less reason for doing so, because the data will show that it is not causing problems.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Regular Member KansasKraut's Avatar
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    Sometimes, only a picture will do:



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    The problem with Wisconsin is, the legislators will never give in here. It creates to much revenue and that is all the politicians care about here is money.

    As long as they can fine someone for breaking these unconstitutional laws they will continue to do so.

    Don't be fooled, there isn't a politician in Wisconsin that actually cares about your rights. They just say what they believe you want to hear so they can get your vote.

    That is what keeps them in office and that is what keeps this state running like the third Reich.

    Besides the only chance Wisconsin had for a Law like Arizonas, just dropped out of the Governors race for lack of support.

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    This is why a state, such as WI, should allow a permit system @ first for CC, as long as it doesn't change the permit-less OC. Once people, and more importantly politicians, put 1 & 1 together, then constitutional carry can become law.
    I disagree. Accept nothing less than constitutional carry. If the politicians see a revenue source in taxing a right then it's going to be hard for them to let it go. If they don't like the sight of people carrying openly then they will have to allow the people to carry concealed.

    This is not only a Second Amendment issue but also a Fourth and Fifth Amendment issue. I should not have to have my "papers in order" to exercise a right codified in the Constitution. Requiring permits to carry concealed gives the police grounds to stop anyone they suspect of carrying a concealed weapon and require them to submit to a search.

    This could easily become a First Amendment issue. The police see people gather to petition the government and they go around searching people for weapons and ID. Every belt pouch suddenly becomes a holster and every wallet in a back pocket looks like a pocket pistol.

    Even if Wisconsin issues permits to carry concealed weapons it still remains a crime to carry a weapon concealed but only the good guys will have a permit to do so. So the criminals face no more of a threat for carrying a concealed weapon but the good guys could find themselves harassed over it.

    Under a system that requires a permit to carry a concealed weapon one would only have to be accused of carrying without a license. If constitutional carry was in effect one would have to be accused of being a prohibited person to be stopped. The only reason a police officer can stop you because they believe you are armed is if they can also reasonably articulate that they believe you are committing or have committed a felony or violent misdemeanor. That is how it is now and that is how it should remain.

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    IA_farmboy wrote:
    This is why a state, such as WI, should allow a permit system @ first for CC, as long as it doesn't change the permit-less OC. Once people, and more importantly politicians, put 1 & 1 together, then constitutional carry can become law.
    I disagree. Accept nothing less than constitutional carry. If the politicians see a revenue source in taxing a right then it's going to be hard for them to let it go. If they don't like the sight of people carrying openly then they will have to allow the people to carry concealed.

    This is not only a Second Amendment issue but also a Fourth and Fifth Amendment issue. I should not have to have my "papers in order" to exercise a right codified in the Constitution. Requiring permits to carry concealed gives the police grounds to stop anyone they suspect of carrying a concealed weapon and require them to submit to a search.

    This could easily become a First Amendment issue. The police see people gather to petition the government and they go around searching people for weapons and ID. Every belt pouch suddenly becomes a holster and every wallet in a back pocket looks like a pocket pistol.

    Even if Wisconsin issues permits to carry concealed weapons it still remains a crime to carry a weapon concealed but only the good guys will have a permit to do so. So the criminals face no more of a threat for carrying a concealed weapon but the good guys could find themselves harassed over it.

    Under a system that requires a permit to carry a concealed weapon one would only have to be accused of carrying without a license. If constitutional carry was in effect one would have to be accused of being a prohibited person to be stopped. The only reason a police officer can stop you because they believe you are armed is if they can also reasonably articulate that they believe you are committing or have committed a felony or violent misdemeanor. That is how it is now and that is how it should remain.
    +1000

    Constitutional Carry = No Compromise!

  8. #8
    McX
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    sooooooooooooo, i hear this arizona thing isn't as big as thought. the police still get the authority, by law, to hold your firearm, for comfort i presume, while interacting with you. and: duty to inform...................regulation by any other name. i hear though they stand to lose a few mil. in cc permit fees.

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    McX wrote:
    sooooooooooooo, i hear this arizona thing isn't as big as thought. the police still get the authority, by law, to hold your firearm, for comfort i presume, while interacting with you. and: duty to inform...................regulation by any other name. i hear though they stand to lose a few mil. in cc permit fees.
    It is that way across the nation in all states from numerous court cases. If an officer "feels" threatened, they can temporarily disarm you. The Arizona law is just putting the already existing law into the statute.

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    I personally do not have an issue with an office taking custody of my weapon during a traffic stop, however that does not give them the permission or right to run the serial number as that would be a search and that would be a violation of my rights.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Phoenix David wrote:
    I personally do not have an issue with an office taking custody of my weapon during a traffic stop, however that does not give them the permission or right to run the serial number as that would be a search and that would be a violation of my rights.
    there really shouldn't be a reason for them to want to take custody of yoyr firearm unless you have a criminal history of some kind.

    But I would say it is not unreasonable for them to hold your firearm during the stop as a matter of officer safety as long as it is not implied that they may hold it indefinitely or that it is mandatory or attempt to run the serial numbers.

    I know many will disagree, however I think over time this would no longer be an issue once officers became more used to the average citizen carrying a firearm.

    Though I would have to ask, how would they know your CCW if they are only stopping you for a traffic stop if Arizona is not requiring a permit? The police don't generally ask you out of the car or search your car on a routine traffic stop. They have no RAS.

    that's just my .02

  12. #12
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    It is office discretion if he/she wishes to take custody of the weapon for the duration of the contact. It will be dependent on what someone is stoped for and thier attitude.

    If you are asked if you are carrying you have to reply truthfully. However doing something legally is not probable cause for anything.

    Generally Arizona Police are very familiar with Arizona weapons laws. But how they act to you depends on what your getting stopped for and your attitude
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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