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Thread: Veterinarian fully vets the issue of guns, laws and pit bulls

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifesty...tviews16_N.htm

    Veterinarian fully vets the issue of guns, laws and pit bulls

    By Patty Khuly, Special for USA TODAY


    At the outset, let me state that I am unwaveringly in favor of gun control measures designed very specifically to keep guns out of the paws of our country's criminal element.

    With that in mind, it seems reasonable to assume I'd be blanketly supportive of more restrictive gun control measures. And yes, when it comes to confirmed criminals, I'm all for keeping arms as far from them as possible. Surely we can justify that as a penalty for their offenses.

    But recently, I tuned into arguments put forth by those who convene in Washington, D.C., today to march in support of gun rights. In so doing, I couldn't help but observe the almost identical nature of arguments made by those who support the preservation of basic gun rights and those who oppose breed-specific legislation such as the pit bull ban we have here in Miami-Dade County.

    Icky though that may have sounded to a leftish-wing animal lover who would never deign to keep a firearm at home, my individual rights-supporting side won out. I got the message — part of it, anyway.

    Why?

    As a veterinarian, Miami-Dade resident and former pit bull owner, I've been a close watcher of breed-specific legislation. And consequently — let me speak plainly now — I hate these laws.

    They are based on:

    • Biological misinformation (pit bulls' jaws don't "lock").

    • Lack of attention to dog-bite statistics (breed bans have not curbed dog bites).

    • A profound lack of attention to reality (pit bulls are even more popular now that they're banned).

    • A failure to recognize the obvious (those who want aggressive dogs will raise them, regardless of breed).

    And these laws are so arbitrarily enforced that those who would socialize their dogs properly in park settings are predominantly targeted over those who would wreak violent havoc with their (mostly hidden) dogs.

    These myopic, tyranny-of-the-majority-enacted bans are fear-based. Aimed at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale, they have no regard for science or public welfare — just for the kind of political expediency that prompts municipal leaders to get their names attached to a proposal that any safety-loving voter stands prepared to swallow whole.

    But then, I guess it'll always be sexier to ban something than to actually work hard to deliver intelligent laws — or to enforce them.

    OK, rant over.

    But perhaps you see my point now. The ban on pit bull dogs (among other breeds), as for weapons, would seem anathema to our national values given that the Second Amendment is right there with all responsible dog owners: You can't take away my dog based on her breed any more than you can take away my revolver just because bad people tend to use a .357 Magnum. The law doesn't allow you to make those decisions for me. Not if I haven't given it just cause to discriminate against me.

    Sure, the problem with the Second Amendment is that our forefathers never foresaw a nation of AK-47-wielding street thugs terrorizing common citizens with their drive-bys, or an urban culture where spike-collared, muscle-bound dogs (of all breeds) straining against their chains was considered the epitome of street-sexy.

    As a mother and a frequent animal-bite observer, of course I'd like more laws targeting these evildoing, dog-wielding creeps (not least because the dogs suffer, too). But am I willing to accept the consequences of such laws? Not when they unfairly target the dogs instead of the people. What we need is not more laws crafted to punish the dogs. Rather, we simply need to enforce existing laws to punish animal cruelty offenders and those whose dogs commit violent acts.

    As with guns, the push should be to punish the criminal, not his weapon, and not to penalize those who would choose to peacefully keep a dog of any particular breed.

    Now, don't condemn me for equating pit bulls with guns. As a former pit bull owner (and a defender of dogs in general), I don't typically see dogs in this light at all. But that doesn't alter the fact that those who would ban them do. And with that recognition comes the obvious conclusion:

    If you respect an individual's right to bear arms, whether for protection, sport or collector's obsession, then any censure of an individual breed of dog (ostensibly for its inherent danger to the population at large) deserves the same broad protections — along with the kind of enhanced enforcement of crimes that result from their abuse.




  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Good post Buster!!!!

    I know some very well behaved pit-bulls, my brother just got turned down because he has German Shepards ( from Germany and German trained ).

    It just goes to show people of all sorts will resort to propaganda and fear mongering over reasoning and statistics. I know gun owners who are in favor of Pit-bull bans.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I really think she made some very valid points that will be lost on the vast majority of people. Many of the arguments put forth by almost any special interest group fall under almost the exact same two or three categories. Just changesome of the wording but not the actual content and you would never even know it. As much as most conservatives hate the ACLU because the case they want to make conflicts with what the conservatives want it is the exact same argument that the conservatives use when they want something passed.

    The majority of gun owners on this board want to ab able to openly carry their gun around in public without being hasseled by the police. If someone brings up something about proper dress or type of gun to use while OC a full fledged fight breaks loose on here between those that say you should dress nicely and only carry non-threatening guns and those that say if they want to wear a T-Shirt promoting Ten Nugent for President and carry a hog-leg it is their right. However if you say that police shouldn't look twice at someone with their pants down to their knees, wearing a basketball jersey 9 sizes too big, a cap turned sideways and 20 pounds of jewelry you will get a totally different response about their right to carry a gun openly.

    We all have trouble realizing that our rights also apply to others and no matter if we agree with them or not they still have those rights. This is not unique to this board, gun boards in general or the Internet but in everyday life as well as politics. I heard a comedian telling about pets one time. He said that if you wanted a pet to get a dog. A dog would love you no matter what or who you were, that a dog only judged you by what you did to them and not what others thought of you. He said even Hitler had a dog and that dog loved him. Sometimes maybe we should take a few tips from Hitler's dog.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    In my apartment complex they have breed bans. Pit bulls being the big one. We have a nice dog run as part of the complex and other apartments in the area allow dogs so they come over to play (no problem for us though technically the dog run is only for us). Well one owner in another complex has a pure pit bull puppy. He brings it out to play and it is super friendly and nice. It got a little rough jumping on our Pomeranian and ours chased it around. Hilarious stuff.

    Now our neighbors had a "lab dalmatian" mix aka a pit mix looking at the jaw structure build etc. This dog has attacked other dogs and even another owner out there. The dog went after the person not biting because they were trying to break them up but to attack them. The manager says they can't do anything because the dog is listed as mixed on the application. Now I love all animals but dogs that attack owners and other dogs have no business being there being out there.

    Its a simple matter of dogs training and owners. I have had Rotts that I would trust around babies and seen mini pins that I would not trust around an MMA fighter. The breed is not to blame but how it is raised.

    Whats hilarious is since I started to open carry some people only come to the dog run when I am out there because they are afraid that the aggressive dogs may be out there and they know I am not going to stand by and let it attack anyone. Also a few more open carriers have come out and I know a few concealed ones as well. I have never had one person leave because I am out there but tons of questions and a lot of really we can do that comments.

    Darn that individual responsibility to behave like a good person

    Oh and for the record I do know between dogs just playing a little rough and one targeting a human and actually attacking. Fido has nothing to worry about for accidentally nipping someone. That happens sometimes when you have a dog.

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    Regular Member 25sierraman's Avatar
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    Uber_Olafsun wrote:
    In my apartment complex they have breed bans. Pit bulls being the big one. We have a nice dog run as part of the complex and other apartments in the area allow dogs so they come over to play (no problem for us though technically the dog run is only for us). Well one owner in another complex has a pure pit bull puppy. He brings it out to play and it is super friendly and nice. It got a little rough jumping on our Pomeranian and ours chased it around. Hilarious stuff.

    Now our neighbors had a "lab dalmatian" mix aka a pit mix looking at the jaw structure build etc. This dog has attacked other dogs and even another owner out there. The dog went after the person not biting because they were trying to break them up but to attack them. The manager says they can't do anything because the dog is listed as mixed on the application. Now I love all animals but dogs that attack owners and other dogs have no business being there being out there.

    Its a simple matter of dogs training and owners. I have had Rotts that I would trust around babies and seen mini pins that I would not trust around an MMA fighter. The breed is not to blame but how it is raised.

    Whats hilarious is since I started to open carry some people only come to the dog run when I am out there because they are afraid that the aggressive dogs may be out there and they know I am not going to stand by and let it attack anyone. Also a few more open carriers have come out and I know a few concealed ones as well. I have never had one person leave because I am out there but tons of questions and a lot of really we can do that comments.

    Darn that individual responsibility to behave like a good person

    Oh and for the record I do know between dogs just playing a little rough and one targeting a human and actually attacking. Fido has nothing to worry about for accidentally nipping someone. That happens sometimes when you have a dog.
    I see youre also from Alexandria. They are crazy around here with their breed restrictions. I was looking to adopt a dog and my wife and i immediately fell in love with this little baby Staffordshire terrier (basically a pit bull) and we found out that we could not keep her because of her breed. She was the most friendly dog ive ever seen and she was deaf (hilarious when she would bark). I was really mad i didnt catch that when signing my lease agreement. The author of that article really did make some awesome points and its nice to see someone who doesnt necessarily agree with us but has the intelligence to see through her own feelings and respect the rights of others.
    HOOAH?

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    The point isn't really about pit bulls. It was that someone who is admittedly "unwaveringly in favor of gun control" may be able to see the error of their waysif it's presented to them properly.

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