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Look, I can/will defend my family!

marshaul

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

Yeah, for the record I agree with HankT.

You may not have brandished which means your behavior was neither aggressive nor illegal, but it came close to the former.

There was no threat whatsoever, and yet because (as you've readily admitted) you see everyone around you as a BG, you responded with a show of potential force.

Wrong? No. Adolescent, puerile even? Yes. Unlikely to help further the cause of OC? Absolutely.

OC the damn thing before you get nervous, and then you won't have to show off your piece like a gangster wannabe. :quirky

Isn't that what this site is about anyway?

In response to your question: No, actual OC will never be show-offy (unless your handle is kwikrnu). But you weren't OCing. You were CCing and you decided you needed to... wait for it... show off your gun. ;)
 
M

mrh2008

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Mesa, Arizona, USA
imported post

armedman wrote:
My occupation is very dangerous and my weapon is a tool for the job. I don't carry to look cool or get a false since of security like so many here.
Click to expand...
The world is a dangerous place. I dont carry to look cool, nor do i get a false sense of security when i carry. I carry for self defense, i dont get a false sense of security from my weapon, i get a true sense of security, like so many here. Knowing that i can put 3 in the BG's chest to instantly stop a deadly encounter is NOT a "false sence of security" i dont know how you came up with all of us OC'ing for that reason and i find it quite disrespectfull that you would say that many of us carry for reasons other than the right ones. And you saying that you get more exceptions while "brandishing" because you work for the government ticks me off. When you clock out, you are NO diferent than i am, why do you get to break the law? what makes you so special? Thats the problem with soo many government employees... they think the rules dont apply to them becase they have a "badge":cuss::cuss:
 
marshaul

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

mrh2008 wrote:
When you clock out, you are NO diferent than i am, why do you get to break the law? what makes you so special? Thats the problem with soo many government employees... they think the rules dont apply to them becase they have a "badge":cuss::cuss:
Click to expand...
There's a tool here, but it isn't the gun...
 
M

mrh2008

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
96
Location
Mesa, Arizona, USA
imported post

marshaul wrote:
mrh2008 wrote:
When you clock out, you are NO diferent than i am, why do you get to break the law? what makes you so special? Thats the problem with soo many government employees... they think the rules dont apply to them becase they have a "badge":cuss::cuss:
Click to expand...
There's a tool here, but it isn't the gun...
Click to expand...
I hope you were not refering to me. I believe that EVERYONE should be required to abide by the same laws, not just some of us. I seem to notice a lot of LEO's breaking various laws every single day that i would get punished for. I dont think thats right. (nearly all of them are driving violations, but violations none the less)
 
B

badbass

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
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11
Location
queen creek, arizona, ,
imported post

I still am curious as to what Federal errands that armedman does for a living. Maybe his point would be better understood if we knew what he has to deal with on a day to day basis.
 
M

mrh2008

Regular Member
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Messages
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Location
Mesa, Arizona, USA
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armedman wrote:
So by being a "gangster want a be" and letting him see that I am armed was worse than possibly having to put 3 slugs in his chest, like some are so ready to do.
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I do believe i specificaly said "to imediately stop a deadly encounter." I dont go out looking for trouble, and i dont go around intimidateing "people that dont fit in" because they are smokeing where I think they should not be smokeing at... i can almost gaurantee that if you are in a deadly situation, and youhad to shoot, you would shoot, as would anyone else. Please, next time you want to sumarize something i say, do it in a way that accurately depicts what i originaly said, or just quote me instead of giveing others the assumption that i am readily willing to put 3 in someone for no apperent reason. Thank you.
 
marshaul

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

mrh2008 wrote:
marshaul wrote:
mrh2008 wrote:
When you clock out, you are NO diferent than i am, why do you get to break the law? what makes you so special? Thats the problem with soo many government employees... they think the rules dont apply to them becase they have a "badge":cuss::cuss:
Click to expand...
There's a tool here, but it isn't the gun...
Click to expand...
I hope you were not refering to me. I believe that EVERYONE should be required to abide by the same laws, not just some of us. I seem to notice a lot of LEO's breaking various laws every single day that i would get punished for. I dont think thats right. (nearly all of them are driving violations, but violations none the less)
Click to expand...
No, I was just making a bad joke, and it wasn't about you.
 
HankT

HankT

State Researcher
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Feb 20, 2007
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Invisible Mode
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armedman wrote:
You think I should have waited until I needed to use actual force that would of involved arresting him or much worse. If he was planning something bad I made him choose a softer target, not me. No law was broken.
Click to expand...

AM, what law did the person break that he should be at risk of getting arrested by you?

What law did you perceive that he might be "planning" to break?

You described him and his actions as:

  • Male
  • (euphemistically or sarcastically) Outstanding community member
  • Didn't fit in with area
  • Standing
  • Smoking
  • Watching you (but not staring)
before you strategically rearranged your clothing to "let him get a good look at the 45 on my hip?"

That, coupled with your melodramatic thread title of "Look, I can/will defend my family! " make it seem like you perceived a threat where none really existed.

Unlessyou can reasonably articulate what the standing/outstanding ill-fitting smoking watchinghombre did that made you suspect bad intentions which got you thinking it wise or necessary to purposefully show him your big black gun, it seems like a kabuki deal to me. With a quick run home to "da guys" to let them all know how cool and righteous you were.

How many mags were you carrying, BTW?
 
SCJeffro

SCJeffro

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
135
Location
Laughlin, NV / Bullhead City, AZ, , USA
imported post

badbass wrote:
I still am curious as to what Federal errands that armedman does for a living. Maybe his point would be better understood if we knew what he has to deal with on a day to day basis.
Click to expand...
I must admit I am a bit curious too... Especially after reading this little gem...

armedman wrote:
... I wear a weapon 10-12hrs a day required as part of my job. The gun gets brandished I'm shure over a 100 times a shift. This comes from placing my hand on the weapon and looking a person straight in the eyes often times upholstering it by my side ...
Click to expand...
What king of "Federal errand running jobs" are you doing that require you to brandish your weapon over 100 times a shift???!!!

I know US Marshals that serve felony warrants as their primary duty and don't brandish their weapons 100 times a week let alone a shift!!
 
B

badbass

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
11
Location
queen creek, arizona, ,
imported post

Since armedman chose not to answer, I will have to guess at what he does. Running errands for the feds= Mailman? Maybe it is what I thought from the begining, a mall ninja. Either way it smells and I am not buying it. Seems like wherever he goes he runs into some confrontation. I imagine that this mystery job would require some psych eval, doubt he would pass that. My TROLL alert has been alarming and I call BS.
 
GWbiker

GWbiker

Guest
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
958
Location
USA
imported post

badbass wrote:
Since armedman chose not to answer, I will have to guess at what he does.   Running errands for the feds= Mailman? Maybe it is what I thought from the begining, a mall ninja. Either way it smells and I am not buying it. Seems like wherever he goes he runs into some confrontation. I imagine that this mystery job would require some psych eval, doubt he would pass that.  My TROLL alert has been alarming and I call BS.
Click to expand...

+1. More I read his tale, higher the meter goes....
 
HankT

HankT

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This armedman case, it it is real, reminds me of the young fellow PackininVB escapade at Lynnhaven Mall that we discussed extensively a long time ago.

It was a classic case of I was only going from CC to OC--not brandishing. There are some interesting arguments, biases and tangents in this one. Which would apply to armedman conversion case. But PiVB did get in trouble for his executed CC to OC conversion (but not arrested).

There are similarities. For example there was no real threat in either case. And the converters in both cases had a very hard time understanding thatthey did something wrong. The arguments and comments are worth reading again, though.

Incident at Lynnhaven Mall on Saturday

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/1354.html
 
mFonz77

mFonz77

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Sierra Vista, AZ
imported post

I don't explicitly call BS on this, but it seems to me like there have been a LOT of either questionable or outright BS posts on this board lately (compared to other boards where you get MAYBE one or two a year -- seems like here it's one a week).

That said, methinks an overzealous prosecutor could have a case here.

While we do have defensive display in Arizona, specific language below seems to indicate that you performed a defensive display WITHOUT the prerequisite belief that physical force was necessary to protect yourself from physical or deadly force. In this thread alone you have at least 10 other members of the carry community who, based on the facts you presented, seem to have a consensus that no immediate threat existed. Condition Orange at highest.

The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
Click to expand...
 
D

Dahwg

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
661
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
imported post

badbass wrote:
Since armedman chose not to answer, I will have to guess at what he does.   Running errands for the feds= Mailman? Maybe it is what I thought from the begining, a mall ninja. Either way it smells and I am not buying it. Seems like wherever he goes he runs into some confrontation. I imagine that this mystery job would require some psych eval, doubt he would pass that.  My TROLL alert has been alarming and I call BS.
Click to expand...

May work for Wackenhut escorting illegals. Yep he'd probably have to unholster.

Interesting how people from other states come in and authoritatively state what brandishing is and isn't.- INAL but from what I read there's no such law in AZ. There is a law against threatening deadly force- that's called Aggravated Assault, but so far as lifting your shirt up, nothing...

I've done it (switch from concealed to open) myself- not to show someone I'm carrying, rather to get more comfortable.

Was it the wise move? Dunno, but the sketchy looking guy moved on. Sounds like business was taken care of.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
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Valhalla
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armedman wrote:
The other evening in a parking lot, the wife and myself were putting the baby in the car seat. I noticed a man, you know, one of those outstanding members of our community, that did not "fit in" with the area. He stood at the back of the truck smoking, he was watching us but not staring at us. No words were exchanged. All I did was pull up my shirt and let him get a good look at the 45 on my hip. He walked away and we went on our way.
It was not a normal place for a smoke break. He probably was just going to give me a sob story looking for a hand out. I will never know, all I know is nothing bad happened that may have....
Click to expand...
In Virginia a deliberate display like that is considered brandishing - no doubt about it.
On the other hand if one takes their outer garment off because it is too hot or uncomfortable, that it is OK. Timing and circumstances have a lot to do with it.

I realize that laws and terms differ from state to state.

Yata hey
 
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