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Thread: Arbys in Lapeer, Positive LEO encounter.

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    After I went to the pit today with my daughter, we went to Arbys. Well, as I got my pistol out and loaded it outside like the law wants, the obvious happened. Someone called. As I was standing in line, I noticed a Mi state cop walk in, so I gave him a nod, and turned back around. After about a minute, he came up and asked if the festiva was mine, (he pointed at it) I said yes, so he called me over. I told Eko to wait in line for dinner, and I went over to him. At this time, an OCSD car pulled up, and a Lapeer car. The other officers waited outside. He said to me that someone saw me get out, load my gun, and then holster it. I said, yes thats right, he asked for my ID, so I gave it to him. I know I diddnt have to, but he was being cool, and it makes things go smoother. I knew I was within the law. He asked where the gun was, I raised my leg a bit, and gestured in that direction being sure not to raise concern. I was not disarmed. He asked for my CPL, I said I diddnt have one, he asked if I was doing the OC thing, I said yes. he went outside with my DL, and let me go sit down to eat. The place was full, and with 3 police cars, the interveiw, and the leg drop XD rig, well, we had everyones attension. Eko and I got about half way through lunch, and the state cop walked in with my license, I stood to meet him out of respect, and he handed it back, saying I was clean and everything checked out. I shook his hand, and thanked him, saying to be careful out there. he thanked me, then went to the manager and told her I was ok, then left. Eko and I finished our dinner amongst conversation and glances, then left. I did ring the bell on the way out.

    Oh yeah, they had cannons and the bowling ball mortar at the pit!! Id was bad @$$



    A gerat day, with a positive LEO experience with a bunch of newly educated general public on OC.

    When we were done, I spotted this little gun store and stopped in. The owner? asked after a few minutes if I were exercising my right to OC, and that got a conversation started with everyone there. That went well. I gave him a MOC card, and was able to gain some more OC exposure there. This time, without the cops.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Glad to hear things turned out alright. I would not be happy if he ran my ID illegally though. Sounds like a learning experience for those around you, which is good.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    After I went to the pit today with my daughter, we went to Arbys. Well, as I got my pistol out and loaded it outside like the law wants, the obvious happened. Someone called. As I was standing in line, I noticed a Mi state cop walk in, so I gave him a nod, and turned back around. After about a minute, he came up and asked if the festiva was mine, (he pointed at it) I said yes, so he called me over. I told Eko to wait in line for dinner, and I went over to him. At this time, an OCSD car pulled up, and a Lapeer car. The other officers waited outside. He said to me that someone saw me get out, load my gun, and then holster it. I said, yes thats right, he asked for my ID, so I gave it to him. I know I diddnt have to, but he was being cool, and it makes things go smoother. I knew I was within the law. He asked where the gun was, I raised my leg a bit, and gestured in that direction being sure not to raise concern. I was not disarmed. He asked for my CPL, I said I diddnt have one, he asked if I was doing the OC thing, I said yes. he went outside with my DL, and let me go sit down to eat. The place was full, and with 3 police cars, the interveiw, and the leg drop XD rig, well, we had everyones attension. Eko and I got about half way through lunch, and the state cop walked in with my license, I stood to meet him out of respect, and he handed it back, saying I was clean and everything checked out. I shook his hand, and thanked him, saying to be careful out there. he thanked me, then went to the manager and told her I was ok, then left. Eko and I finished our dinner amongst conversation and glances, then left. I did ring the bell on the way out.

    Oh yeah, they had cannons and the bowling ball mortar at the pit!! Id was bad @$$



    A gerat day, with a positive LEO experience with a bunch of newly educated general public on OC.

    When we were done, I spotted this little gun store and stopped in. The owner? asked after a few minutes if I were exercising my right to OC, and that got a conversation started with everyone there. That went well. I gave him a MOC card, and was able to gain some more OC exposure there. This time, without the cops.
    That is some great situational awareness if you ask me, he missed a drop leg holster?springerdave.

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    Lapeer law enforcement is coming around.

    I ran into plain clothes sheriff's deputies at the tea party last week and they didn't say a word about my pistols.

    I am happy that the officers get to see there are other citizens who open carry in and around lapeer county. I didn't want them to think i was the only one lol

    What time was the incident? I'll foia the 911 calls and radio traffic. Might make some good listening. I think the last cd i got from them was about $30, and they had it ready within 2 hours of submitting the request.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    2:30ish I think. We left the pit at around 2, so it must have been around then.

    I couldnt beleive he missed the leg drop either. One reason I wear like that is to make it unmistakably obvious.



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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Stainless, you received a lot of criticism about your actions in losing your CPL, and I was one of the critics. But it seems you are being very careful with non-CPL OC, and you're getting out there and doing it and educating folks.

    Good to see your post of this positive experience (as positive as it can be considering LEO interaction). Continue being very careful, and good to see you remaining active in the movement!
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Thanks.

    I hope my experience helps others. It was tough. really tough.

    I have learned a lot, and am very careful about what I say and do now. I couldnt just quit, screw that, just hope to regain some credibility. I am better off now, having this experience.

    Just looking forward to July 26 when I get my CPL back. One thing about this, I wont be concealing afterwards. this experience has solidified my position on OC. After considering OC, CC, I dont really beleive in CC. thats for criminals spies, and the shady, as for the law abiding, and police, let us open carry, we have nothing to hide.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    he asked if I was doing the OC thing, I said yes.
    You could have said, "If OC thing you mean protecting myself and my daughter, then yes." Then again, I'm not sure how the police are in MI.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    DanM wrote:
    Stainless, you received a lot of criticism about your actions in losing your CPL, and I was one of the critics. But it seems you are being very careful with non-CPL OC, and you're getting out there and doing it and educating folks.

    Good to see your post of this positive experience (as positive as it can be considering LEO interaction). Continue being very careful, and good to see you remaining active in the movement!
    Yea, me too.

    Just be aware that, while these positive encounters are occurring, the s can hit the fan at any moment for you with respect to the transport law.

    All it will take is an officer arresting you for unlawful transport, and a prosecutor willing to pursue it. You will sit in jail for a long time waiting for a trial or a plea deal.

    There is no case law on the transport statute. Keep that in mind.

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    anybody want to donate a few bucks to the foia ? I expect it will only be about $30.00

    I don't mind paying for it, but would much rather share the cost with a few others.

    *edit* this will be only for the 911 center audio ie: 911 call and police radio traffic.

    might be fun to listen to the caller say something like....."he's carrying a gun in a holster!" "now he's standing in line paying for his food!" etc etc.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    CV67PAT wrote
    There is no case law on the transport statute. Keep that in mind.

    I know.This bothers me relentlessly.


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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    Excellent experience. Cooperation is always helpful, even if you just at least gave a name verbally. I don't fault anyone for judging their situation and cooperating as they see fit.
    United we STAND!

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    JeffSayers wrote:
    Excellent experience. Cooperation is always helpful, even if you just at least gave a name verbally. I don't fault anyone for judging their situation and cooperating as they see fit.
    Educating the police during an encounter, I believe, is the wrong time and place.

    It seldom leads to anything constructive. It is better to address an issue on your turf instead of theirs.

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    EM87 wrote:
    Glad to hear things turned out alright. I would not be happy if he ran my ID illegally though. Sounds like a learning experience for those around you, which is good.
    To say the officer illegally ran his ID is wrong. Stainless offered his ID, therefore giving the officer permission to run it. I'd have done the same thing. To each their own. Good job, stainless.

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    Thanks.

    I made no attempt to educate the officers. They already knew They brought OC up, I stuck with the yes sir no sir route.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    Thanks.

    I made no attempt to educate the officers. They already knew They brought OC up, I stuck with the yes sir no sir route.
    Not saying you were.

    You handled it well.

    It was a generalized statement by me.

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    scot623 wrote:
    EM87 wrote:
    Glad to hear things turned out alright. I would not be happy if he ran my ID illegally though. Sounds like a learning experience for those around you, which is good.
    To say the officer illegally ran his ID is wrong. Stainless offered his ID, therefore giving the officer permission to run it. I'd have done the same thing. To each their own. Good job, stainless.
    Agreed 100%.

    Scot623 has demonstrated repeatedly how to deal with LEOs that are both challenging and congenial.

    His are great examples of how to interact in an encounter with LEOs.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    scot623 wrote:
    EM87 wrote:
    Glad to hear things turned out alright. I would not be happy if he ran my ID illegally though. Sounds like a learning experience for those around you, which is good.
    To say the officer illegally ran his ID is wrong. Stainless offered his ID, therefore giving the officer permission to run it. I'd have done the same thing. To each their own. Good job, stainless.
    Agreed 100%.

    Scot623 has demonstrated repeatedly how to deal with LEOs that are both challenging and congenial.

    His are great examples of how to interact in an encounter with LEOs.
    I agree that once you give them your ID you have given permission for them to run you.

    Also I would have likely given them my ID ... it depends on the situation and so forth.

    Like I said over on MOC I think he handled himself just fine. And lots of folks got educated that day.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    i just submitted the fioa request in person. It is entirely possible that it will be processed later today.

    this will be audio of:

    911 calls and
    police radio traffic

    as well as a paper report of all the times and units dispatched to the scene
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    cool! where are you going to post it? youtube?

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Why give ID when you are not required to? Are we just sheep? What this accomplishesis the LEO thinks/learns thathe/she can demand it and take it from anyone at anytime. Do we want to train LEOs that way?

    Just wondering?
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

    If the cop starts off being cool, then I show ID, to recipricate. this usually makes things go smoother for both of us. The defenses start to come down, and may keep the cop from looking deeper to find a reason to bust you. Like tossing a cigarette, if you smoke, or swearing, spitting, a pocket knife CCW charge, speeding, whatever.

    We are in the process of building bridges, changing minds, and opening doors. We want to have respect, and credibility, not to come off as a bunch of pricks.


    ETA. If a cop wants to be a ***** to me first, then Im not giving my ID. And I take the 5th. Later, probably in court, I will explain to the judge that I have had many LEO encounters, and that the only reason it went differently is because of the actions of the officer in question. Further, I would request that the judge order that officer in particular to be the one to personally return my gun to me.:P

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

    If the cop starts off being cool, then I show ID, to recipricate. this usually makes things go smoother for both of us. The defenses start to come down, and may keep the cop from looking deeper to find a reason to bust you. Like tossing a cigarette, if you smoke, or swearing, spitting, a pocket knife CCW charge, speeding, whatever.

    We are in the process of building bridges, changing minds, and opening doors. We want to have respect, and credibility, not to come off as a bunch of pricks.


    ETA. If a cop wants to be a ***** to me first, then Im not giving my ID. And I take the 5th. Later, probably in court, I will explain to the judge that I have had many LEO encounters, and that the only reason it went differently is because of the actions of the officer in question. Further, I would request that the judge order that officer in particular to be the one to personally return my gun to me.:P
    Doesn't really address my concerns of a growing police state does it? I know that the Jews were polite to the police too, they wanted it to go SMOOTHLY too,look what it got them.

    I don't want to attract flies, vinegar in the eye is a great wake up call.

    We can build bridges by following the law and give ID when we are REQUIRED to.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Thats how it changesfrom an option to a requirement.

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    it didn't get done today, and i work tomorrow, so it will probably be monday before i can pick it up.

    Last time i submitted a foia to this organization it was ready for me to pick up in about 2 hours. Maybe they were busy today, or had someone call in sick. After all, their primary job is to dispatch and answer 911 calls.


    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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