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Thread: Certainly an applicable read...

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    Tank,

    Great link. Kevin Kane should be sent back to law school or replaced..


    Even through it may be legal for a permitted gun owner to carry a pistol or revolver in public in Connecticut, the officials say every case is not necessarily legal and they will closely examine those brought to their attention....

    The circumstances to which Kane refers involve how gun owners carry weapons and how members of the public react to an openly carried weapon. If citizens panic and call the police, Kane said, there will be an investigation"

    This sounds like if someone has issue and is alarmed with the way someone is lawfully OC they can be arrested. This is what Goldberg's case was about.

    Great to see the discussion and education of the laws occuring.

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    OK, here we go again. I offer the following analogy:

    "Breach of peace is NOTa lawful charge if someone reacts negatively to your lawful behavior".

    If Mr. Goldberg doesn't win his case on the basis of the above statement, THEN CLEARLY:


    "Breach of peace IS a lawful charge if someone reacts negatively to your lawful behavior".

    So I'm going to do the following from now on:I'm going to call the policeevery timeI see someone walking a dog, even if it's on a leash, because I'M VERY FRIGHTENED OF DOGS (which can escape theirownersandseriously maim or kill me). Owning and walking adog may be lawful behavior, but I REACT NEGATIVELY TO DOGS,so I will LAWFULLY CHARGE Breach of Peace.

    I EXPECT LAW ENFORCEMENT TO ARREST THE DOG OWNER, TAKE THEIR DOG LICENSE AWAY, AND SEIZE (AND HOPEFULLY DESTROY) THEIR DOG, ALL FOR "BREACH OF PEACE" BECAUSE I'M VERY FRIGHTENED OF DOGS.

    Would someone PLEASE tell me if there's a flaw in my thinking here?







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    (Forgive me. I'm on a roll and had to re-write Toadyrock's post):

    Tank,

    Great link. Kevin Kane should be sent back to law school or replaced..

    Even though it may be legal for a licensed dog ownerto walk a dogin public in Connecticut, the officials say every case is not necessarily legal and they will closely examine those brought to their attention....

    The circumstances to which Kane refers involve how dog owners walk dogsand how members of the public react to a publicly walked dog.If citizens panic and call the police, Kane said, there will be an investigation"

    This sounds like if someone has issue and is alarmed with the way someone is walking their dog,they can be arrested. This is what Goldberg's case was about.

    Great to see the discussion and education of the laws occuring.


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    Supermarine: This is exactly the same thinking as my argument will be to anyone stating I can be arrested for breach of peace. And I will make good on pointing to the first person with a dog, or a cell phone, or a cheeseburger or whatever and proclaiming I feel threatened by them and that they must be charged with the same thing I am being charged with.

    After all, if that incorrect interpretation of the law is good enough to take me to jail with, it is good enough for anyone else to be taken to jail with. And if I am falsely arrested, I do plan to make sure their jail is full of law abiding dog walkers the next day.
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Also, I have this 'bad feeling' about some of these radical anti freedom people that they will do or say just about anything to a law enforcement officer to get an open carrier arrested. I think the best (and probably only) way to deal with someone like this if they make trouble for anyone open carrying is to immediately call the police. After all, the police are on our side. We are abiding by the laws. Someone harassing you or threatening you is not.

    Now, if they are willing to have reasonable discourse and possibly be educated, they should be treated respectfully and politely. But if they are only willing to state false claims and make a scene, they should be arrested for disturbing the peace immediately. We need to ban together with the police and make each other work for each other. When these people cause a scene, respond in kind by having them arrested. There needs to be a clear line in the sand that if you infringe upon a law abiding citizen's freedoms that you will be arrested (as the law intends).

    I say this with two incidents in mind that I read on this forum. There was one about an open carrier walking to their car in Walmart and a woman chasing him down and asking him if he was a cop and then causing a scene. It is obviously a matter of personal judgement, but we should not be jumping in our car with our tail between our legs. We should be offering to assist them by calling the police ourselves and having them come down and explain the law that chasing someone to their car and harassing them is not legal.

    I also recall the recent story at home depot of a 'possible' LEO telling someone they couldn't carry and making a scene as well. Impersonating an officer is a serious crime, and being an off duty officer who is harassing a law abiding citizen with false legal information is a serious issue that needs to be addressed with their commanding officer. In that case I would have liked to see the person put the 'officer' on the defensive and ask him for his badge information and if he continued to make a scene by ignoring the data given or by not giving you his ID, call the local police and tell them what is transpiring. Remember, the law is on your side even if you don't believe it. You may have to educate the responding officers, but never let a lie go unchallenged.

    Anyway, that is my two cents. The police are always more likely to be on the side of the 'victim' who calls police first. I don't like the idea of us as law abiding citizens always being on the defensive, we need to strike back and show that we know our rights and that we will not stand for having them trampled upon by anyone. Use the law for what it is for.
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    Rich B wrote:
    I don't like the idea of us as law abiding citizens always being on the defensive, we need to strike back and show that we know our rights and that we will not stand for having them trampled upon by anyone. Use the law for what it is for.
    Damn straight, Rich. Seems like gun owners are too often the ones being harassed by folks bending the law to make it fit their own purposes. Luckily, in most cases, the law is actually on our side, we just can't be afraid to use it.

    Loren

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    i wish more cops would be on our side. it took alot of brave ballsy men to found this country. likewise it will take alot of brave ballsy cops to deal with the "scared" in this state. like nbc says "the more you know", i know its not a cops job to educate the public, it would be so nice if they helped instead of hurt. i fix cars for a living, it is my job to do the fixing, and the advisors job to do the talking, yet 9 times out of 10 i am doing the explaining to the customer what failed and why ect. i lose money when i have to do this, but i suck it up because i know a happy customer is a good customer.

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    Rich,
    You've made some great points. Generally whoever calls the cops first is looked at as the "victim". So like you said, if anyone starts to hassle you while open carrying, the best thing to do might be to immediately dial 911.

    Don
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    I actually try to keep the local phone number of the police non-emergency line on me wherever I go.

    I figure even if the responding officer doesn't agree with me, they can't use abuse of the 911 system as their "Lets get this guy for something" excuse.
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    Rich B wrote:
    Also, I have this 'bad feeling' about some of these radical anti freedom people that they will do or say just about anything to a law enforcement officer to get an open carrier arrested. I think the best (and probably only) way to deal with someone like this if they make trouble for anyone open carrying is to immediately call the police. After all, the police are on our side. We are abiding by the laws. Someone harassing you or threatening you is not.

    Now, if they are willing to have reasonable discourse and possibly be educated, they should be treated respectfully and politely. But if they are only willing to state false claims and make a scene, they should be arrested for disturbing the peace immediately. We need to ban together with the police and make each other work for each other. When these people cause a scene, respond in kind by having them arrested. There needs to be a clear line in the sand that if you infringe upon a law abiding citizen's freedoms that you will be arrested (as the law intends).

    I say this with two incidents in mind that I read on this forum. There was one about an open carrier walking to their car in Walmart and a woman chasing him down and asking him if he was a cop and then causing a scene. It is obviously a matter of personal judgement, but we should not be jumping in our car with our tail between our legs. We should be offering to assist them by calling the police ourselves and having them come down and explain the law that chasing someone to their car and harassing them is not legal.

    I also recall the recent story at home depot of a 'possible' LEO telling someone they couldn't carry and making a scene as well. Impersonating an officer is a serious crime, and being an off duty officer who is harassing a law abiding citizen with false legal information is a serious issue that needs to be addressed with their commanding officer. In that case I would have liked to see the person put the 'officer' on the defensive and ask him for his badge information and if he continued to make a scene by ignoring the data given or by not giving you his ID, call the local police and tell them what is transpiring. Remember, the law is on your side even if you don't believe it. You may have to educate the responding officers, but never let a lie go unchallenged.

    Anyway, that is my two cents. The police are always more likely to be on the side of the 'victim' who calls police first. I don't like the idea of us as law abiding citizens always being on the defensive, we need to strike back and show that we know our rights and that we will not stand for having them trampled upon by anyone. Use the law for what it is for.
    I have NEVER understood how people who are supposedly terrified of guns, and those of us that carry them, will summon the courage toapproach an armed person that they don't know and start spewing their nonsense.



    I guess we gun owners have to work harder on being intimidating and scary.







    mg


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    MGoduto wrote:
    Rich B wrote:
    Also, I have this 'bad feeling' about some of these radical anti freedom people that they will do or say just about anything to a law enforcement officer to get an open carrier arrested. I think the best (and probably only) way to deal with someone like this if they make trouble for anyone open carrying is to immediately call the police. After all, the police are on our side. We are abiding by the laws. Someone harassing you or threatening you is not.

    Now, if they are willing to have reasonable discourse and possibly be educated, they should be treated respectfully and politely. But if they are only willing to state false claims and make a scene, they should be arrested for disturbing the peace immediately. We need to ban together with the police and make each other work for each other. When these people cause a scene, respond in kind by having them arrested. There needs to be a clear line in the sand that if you infringe upon a law abiding citizen's freedoms that you will be arrested (as the law intends).

    I say this with two incidents in mind that I read on this forum. There was one about an open carrier walking to their car in Walmart and a woman chasing him down and asking him if he was a cop and then causing a scene. It is obviously a matter of personal judgement, but we should not be jumping in our car with our tail between our legs. We should be offering to assist them by calling the police ourselves and having them come down and explain the law that chasing someone to their car and harassing them is not legal.

    I also recall the recent story at home depot of a 'possible' LEO telling someone they couldn't carry and making a scene as well. Impersonating an officer is a serious crime, and being an off duty officer who is harassing a law abiding citizen with false legal information is a serious issue that needs to be addressed with their commanding officer. In that case I would have liked to see the person put the 'officer' on the defensive and ask him for his badge information and if he continued to make a scene by ignoring the data given or by not giving you his ID, call the local police and tell them what is transpiring. Remember, the law is on your side even if you don't believe it. You may have to educate the responding officers, but never let a lie go unchallenged.

    Anyway, that is my two cents. The police are always more likely to be on the side of the 'victim' who calls police first. I don't like the idea of us as law abiding citizens always being on the defensive, we need to strike back and show that we know our rights and that we will not stand for having them trampled upon by anyone. Use the law for what it is for.
    I have NEVER understood how people who are supposedly terrified of guns, and those of us that carry them, will summon the courage toapproach an armed person that they don't know and start spewing their nonsense.



    I guess we gun owners have to work harder on being intimidating and scary.







    mg
    X2!! I don't think i'll be chasing down any personoc'ing to ask if he's a LEO!! Some people are brainless............

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