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Thread: Wall Street Journal - Gun advocates open a new front, open carry leading the way

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    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...essive+Tactics

    SNIP

    Gun Advocates Open a New Front
    Saying NRA Isn't Imaginative, Splinter Groups Seek More Aggressive Tactics
    By VANESSA O'CONNELL

    Some gun owners, saying that the National Rifle Association isn't battling hard enough for their rights, are taking the fight into their own hands.

    The 4.3 million-member NRA, one of the most powerful and well-funded lobbying groups in Washington, has for 35 years dominated the push to expand gun rights.

    But its strategies aren't aggressive or imaginative enough for some gun owners who want to openly carry holstered pistols in public places, or to exploit loopholes in state gun laws to purchase semi-automatic rifles.

    They are coming together in smaller, loosely organized groups that recruit on the Internet . . .

    The NRA is "no longer absolutely the 800-pound gorilla" in the pro-gun movement, said Gary Marbut, a life member of the NRA and president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association, an NRA affiliate. "The NRA is running the risk of becoming insignificant, of fading into the background."

    . . .

    To be sure, the rise of the new groups hasn't hurt the NRA in terms of membership or revenue. Fueled by an increase in gun ownership, its membership is 25% to 30% above typical levels during the tenure of President George W. Bush. Altogether, an estimated 80 million people in the U.S. own guns.

    The NRA's political action committee has taken in $10.25 million for the 2010 elections, and ranks sixth in terms of receipts among all federally registered PACs, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks Federal Election Commission disclosures. The NRA's total revenue, including member dues, investment income and contributions, rose to $307 million in 2009, from $268 million a year earlier.

    "The NRA approval ratings are the highest they have ever been," said NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre. Gun ownership "is a freedom the overwhelming majority of Americans support," he said. "There's different voices under that umbrella of freedom. And that's a good thing."

    . . .

    But Ben Cannon, 29, of Healdsburg, Calif., a founding member of the board of Calguns Inc., an Internet-based organization founded in 2002, said some younger gun owners felt that because the NRA must cater to all gun owners, it didn't embrace their own interests enough.

    Calguns aims to fashion itself as a hipper pro-gun group. It has two entities—a free Web forum with 40,000 registered members that makes revenue from advertising, and a two-year-old nonprofit arm that raises money through donations. Most supporters are in their 20s and 30s, college-educated and urban dwelling.

    . . .

    Another alternative group gaining momentum with young gun owners is Opencarry.org, a six-year-old Internet-based organization with an estimated 22,000 registered users dedicated to openly carrying handguns in public in the 43 states where doing so is legal.

    The open-carry movement has succeeded in small yet visible ways. Businesses, including Starbucks Corp. coffee shops, have resisted pressure from gun-control advocates to ban the practice in their stores.

    . . .

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    . . .

    Another alternative group gaining momentum with young gun owners is Opencarry.org, a six-year-old Internet-based organization with an estimated 22,000 registered users dedicated to openly carrying handguns in public in the 43 states where doing so is legal.

    The open-carry movement has succeeded in small yet visible ways. Businesses, including Starbucks Corp. coffee shops, have resisted pressure from gun-control advocates to ban the practice in their stores.

    . . .
    Wow. WSJ.

    OCDO is indeed having great success in advancing gun carry rights across the land, especially OC.

    Kudos to Mike, John, and others who were part of the early OCDO and who represent it well today. It's a really big success story.

    I don't know about the 22,000 registered users business. That's obviously not a good measure of the actual OCDO membership.

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    The simple fact of the matter is that 22,000 people have taken the time to register.

    We have 22,343 members, 39,805 topics, 717,026 posts. Please welcome our newest member ...
    Yeah, some have been trolls. Some have even been intellectually honest opponents of OC. However, 22,000 is still an excellent estimate of the number of people who have signed up with a genuine interest in the cause here. I am sure that thousands have lurked regularly and not signed up, even though they are in accord with OC

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Wow and I can remember when we split off from the old packing.org. How far we have come.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    But its strategies aren't aggressive or imaginative enough for some gun owners who
    want to openly carry holstered pistols in public places, or to exploit loopholes in
    state gun laws to purchase
    semi-automatic rifles.
    What is this talking about? Not exactly a neutral or objective sentence.

    TFred

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    But its strategies aren't aggressive or imaginative enough for some gun owners who
    want to openly carry holstered pistols in public places, or to exploit loopholes in
    state gun laws to purchase
    semi-automatic rifles.
    What is this talking about? Not exactly a neutral or objective sentence.

    TFred
    Yeah, that one bothered me also ... other than Kalifornia, is there any state where anyone has to exploit any loopholes to purchase a SEMI-AUTO RIFLE?

    Some serious fear-mongering going on there!
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    But its strategies aren't aggressive or imaginative enough for some gun owners who want to openly carry holstered pistols in public places, or to exploit loopholes in state gun laws to purchase semi-automatic rifles.

    Loopholes?? what loopholes?? We don't need no steenking loopholes. These lamestream idiot reporters drive me absolutely crazy!!!
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    WSJ wrote:
    . . .

    Another alternative group gaining momentum with young gun owners is Opencarry.org, a six-year-old Internet-based organization with an estimated 22,000 registered users dedicated to openly carrying handguns in public in the 43 states where doing so is legal.

    The open-carry movement has succeeded in small yet visible ways. Businesses, including Starbucks Corp. coffee shops, have resisted pressure from gun-control advocates to ban the practice in their stores.

    . . .
    It's interesting that O'Connell used "young" as a modifier to OCDO-represented gun owners. She's perceptive.

    There has been a trend toward a younger crowd around here in the last year or so. Few things seem tomake an 18 or 19-year old more enthusiastic than the realization that they can legally carry a firearm, handgun or long gun, without a license or training in some states. Just get the gun--and go.

    Hey, it's a good thing that our youth is interested in firearms, right?

    And the more gun carriers we have, the better it is for all of us.

    Right?

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    Hank hasn't been around recently, evidently, to read our Moderator's comments on personal appearance and its effect on the movement.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Isn't it wonderful when folks who don't OC question the rights of those who do?

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    HankT wrote:
    It's interesting that O'Connell used "young" as a modifier to OCDO-represented gun owners. She's perceptive.

    There has been a trend toward a younger crowd around here in the last year or so. Few things seem tomake an 18 or 19-year old more enthusiastic than the realization that they can legally carry a firearm, handgun or long gun, without a license or training in some states. Just get the gun--and go.
    Speaking of young people, I think that the aparent concealed only focus of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus has hurt their abilitiy to recruit members and student interest - many or most college students would be interested in learning about gun rights if they had a way to participate but as most states require folks to be 21+ to get a concealed permit, and by then college students are focussed on graduating and getting a job to pay student loans, civic activism is pretty low on their list of priorities.

    While a policy focus on removing barriers to concealed carry on campus for students is fine, perhaps the group should consider holding soe open carry events off campus so more students could participate in a tangible way.



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    Mike wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    It's interesting that O'Connell used "young" as a modifier to OCDO-represented gun owners. She's perceptive.

    There has been a trend toward a younger crowd around here in the last year or so. Few things seem tomake an 18 or 19-year old more enthusiastic than the realization that they can legally carry a firearm, handgun or long gun, without a license or training in some states. Just get the gun--and go.
    Speaking of young people, I think that the aparent concealed only focus of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus has hurt their abilitiy to recruit members and student interest - many or most college students would be interested in learning about gun rights if they had a way to participate but as most states require folks to be 21+ to get a concealed permit, and by then college students are focussed on graduating and getting a job to pay student loans, civic activism is pretty low on their list of priorities.

    While a policy focus on removing barriers to concealed carry on campus for students is fine, perhaps the group should consider holding soe open carry events off campus so more students could participate in a tangible way.
    So very true! The SCCC while well intended and working under difficult circumstances has limited their focus on but one aspect of carry. Expanding their horizons cannot but help them.

    IMO an anti open carry stance (Texas) did measurable harm to them.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Young? I'm 62 years old, a Vietnam vet, a registered member of OCDO, but not the NRA.

    What's the NRA's position of fighting the states (and the subdivisions thereof) to obey existing law concerning open carry? Huh? Huh? Dead silence.

    What's the NRA's position of fighting the federal government concerning ATF abuses? Huh? Huh? Dead silence.

    What's the NRA's position, any position, on the various Firearms Freedom acts passed by several state governments? Huh? Huh? Dead silence.



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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    The simple fact of the matter is that 22,000 people have taken the time to register.

    We have 22,343 members, 39,805 topics, 717,026 posts. Please welcome our newest member ...
    Yeah, some have been trolls. Some have even been intellectually honest opponents of OC. However, 22,000 is still an excellent estimate of the number of people who have signed up with a genuine interest in the cause here. I am sure that thousands have lurked regularly and not signed up, even though they are in accord with OC
    Nah, 22,000 for "registered users" or"registered members"("with a genuine interest in the cause here") is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy overstated.Your "simple fact" is not correct. Just take a look at the membership list.

    I think I've seen an adjusted/estimated number of 8,000 or so from Mike.

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    she spent the whole day at cabelas in MI interviewing open carriers there that setup a table with OC info,and taking pics...and thats all she wrote??

    better than nothing i suppose,and its not a horribly bad article.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    HankT wrote:
    Nah, 22,000 for "registered users" or"registered members" ("with a genuine interest in the cause here") is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy overstated.Your "simple fact" is not correct. Just take a look at the membership list.

    I think I've seen an adjusted/estimated number of 8,000 or so from Mike.
    I don't think I ever said that - John recently "pruned" are membership from 29,000+ down to 22,000 - apparently he can kill off members who registered but rarely ever posted or are spambots...

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    exploit loopholes in state gun laws to purchase semi-automatic rifles.
    If there are any loopholes out there, I want to know about them!

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    Freightdog wrote:
    exploit loopholes in state gun laws to purchase semi-automatic rifles.
    If there are any loopholes out there, I want to know about them!
    Since "loophole" means any legal means, all of my guns are purchased accordingly.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    One man's loophole is another man's right.

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    A loophole is an inadvertent failure to restrict.

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    A loophole is a way of escaping a difficulty, especially an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law that provides a means of evading complianc.It can also be a small hole or slit in a wall, especially one through which small arms may be fired.
    When a criminal invades your home and has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.

    My Definition of Gun Control: The idea that dozens of people found dead in the Broadway Café, Tasmania, and many also seriously wounded, all while waiting for police, who were called to show up and protect them, is somehow morally superior to having several armed and therefore alive civilian's explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    Regular Member Rich Keagy's Avatar
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    I have it on good authority there is no such thing as a loop hole. If something is not prohibited, it is permitted.
    Loop holes don't exist, just like 'air pockets'.
    Rich Keagy
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    Rich Keagy wrote:
    I have it on good authority there is no such thing as a loop hole. If something is not prohibited, it is permitted.
    Loop holes don't exist, just like 'air pockets'.
    I think a loophole occurs when an activity was intended to be prohibited, but a flaw in the wording does not prohibit it, or when a law is deliberately worded as to appear to prohibit an activity, but, for some nefarious reason, does not actually prohibit it.

    For an example of a loophole, check out the guns on the Mall thread.

    Loopholes and air pockets exist just as surely as the number zero does.

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    Regular Member Rich Keagy's Avatar
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    I just can't buy the idea that the writers of a law perhaps misused words or said something the wrong way, or forgot something.
    I worked for a small county government before I retired. When we wanted to draft a new ordinance, we first solicited similar ordinances from surrounding counties and other entities that have had success with their laws.
    Things were gone over very carefully. I'm not saying the process is perfect, but you'll have to ask the writers their original intent to discern whether something was overlooked, an honest mistake or that it was purposely omitted.
    Rich Keagy
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    Again, check out the Mall thread. The authors of the law clearly would have wanted DC to exercise authority over the bearing of arms at national parks within the boundary of DC. However, the used the word "state." Furthermore, they defined "state" to mean a State, a territory, or a possession, none of which DC is.

    Loophole. If one were arrested for carrying on the Mall, which surely the authors intended to be against the law, the defense would be pretty easy: By black-letter law, DC does NOT have jurisdiction in the matter of bearing arms in national parks within boundaries of DC.

    Yeah, it was foolish on the part of the drafters, but drafters of law often end up with laws that say something other than they intended.

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