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Thread: NRA becoming absolete?

  1. #1
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    Is this because the NRA is no longer about gun rights as it is about making a profit? The NRA is about CC with permits and training or hunting. IMHO

    Evan Fox News is afraid of law abiding constitutionalists.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/19...ates-open-new/

    Snippets:

    "But its strategies aren't aggressive or imaginative enough for some gun owners who want to openly carry holstered pistols in public places, or to exploit loopholes in state gun laws to purchase semi-automatic rifles."

    "The NRA is "no longer absolutely the 800-pound gorilla" in the pro-gun movement, said Gary Marbut, a life member of the NRA and president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association, an NRA affiliate. "The NRA is running the risk of becoming insignificant, of fading into the background."




    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    IMHO, in one way, the NRA has always been irrelevant to the Open Carry issue or the Concealed Carry issue because they are about PISTOLS rather than RIFLES.

    However, they have for a long time been the only visible, organized pro-gun proponent operating at the national level. And by protecting the rights of rifle owners, they also protect the rights of gun owners everywhere.

    Where I think they have "lost their way" is in the defense of the 2A which the NRA has never seemed to support to the full extent of their resources.

    Hopefully we can get Ted Nugent in as president soon. I believe if that happens we will see a shift in the policies of the NRA for the better support of ALL gun rights, including Open Carry.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    I think that the NRA does not realize that it has raised the bar--significantly. They need to start trying to reach that new height.

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    As long as they are there for possible legal representation for those who are arrested for unconstitutional laws i will continue to support them. We can only ask so much of an organization like the NRA, there nothing special remember that. The people, like so many on this website are the first line of defense. The NRA is just another outlet for second ammendment protection. We should neverovervaluean entity or group like the NRA.

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    "But its strategies aren't aggressive or imaginative enough for some gun owners who want to openly carry holstered pistols in public places, or to exploit loopholes in state gun laws to purchase semi-automatic rifles."



    this line is what bothered me about the whole peace. Who are trying to exploit loopholes; not law abiding OC and so people want to buy a...semi-auto rifle...:whatfor those with children I'm sorry they may have read that.)
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    BJA wrote:
    As long as they are there for possible legal representation for those who are arrested for unconstitutional laws i will continue to support them. We can only ask so much of an organization like the NRA, there nothing special remember that. The people, like so many on this website are the first line of defense. The NRA is just another outlet for second ammendment protection. We should neverovervaluean entity or group like the NRA.
    Just to inform you, I WAS a member of the NRA for 10 years and they DO NOT help gun owners or their members who are arrested or have fire arms illegally seized. At least they did not help me.

    In 2006, Harris County Pct 4 Constables pulled up on me and a friend who had pulled into a parking lot due to car trouble. We were asked for ID's, and me being a concealed handgun license holder, gave the officer my ID, and CHL. He told me to put my hands on the truck and removed my Glock 23 from my in-the-pants holster. He then went to his car to run our back grounds. Both of us had perfectly clean back grounds, and he told me to put my hands behind my back and was arresting me for "carrying a prohibited weapon in a prohibited place" which is a 3rd degree felony in Texas.

    Now a little back ground on me. I am a criminal justice major and graduated from H.C.C. Police Academy and hold a T.C.L.E.O.S.E. certification from the state of Texas to be a "peace officer" in the state of Texas. The only reason I was not a police officer at the time he arrested me, was because I chose to go back to college and finish my degree so that I would be promoted faster in my law enforcement career.

    Anyways, I politely informed the officer that their must be some mistake, and that I am pretty familiar with the law, and would he please go double check in his car on the his computer (which can very quickly pull up Texas Penal Code statues), to make sure he is not making a mistake. He told me to shut up and that he knew the law. I was arrested and spent 3 days in Harris County jail before my family paid my $5,000 bail.

    Upon my first day in court, I took my penal code book to the judge that I had from the police academy and showed him Texas Penal Code 46.035 (Carrying a prohibited weapon in a prohibited place by a CHL holder), which clearly stated, "it does NOT apply to walkways, drive ways, PARKING LOTS, parking garages...". He dismissed the case immediately.

    I took dismissal papers to Pct. 4 where they were holding my Glock for evidence and after 10 mins the officer in charge of the evidence department told me the district attorney has to sign off on the weapon being released, and she told him "hell will freeze over before he gets that gun back".

    So I called the NRA, and to my surprise, they acted like they didn't care. They told me it was a common problem, and that I needed to contact an attorney. I talked to a few different people/branches of the NRA, and got the same treatment. I decided to not re-new my membership.

    I ended up contacting Alice Trip with the Texas Rifle Association (who I was NOT a member with) and she was very eager to help. She even contacted Corbin Vann Arsdale (house rep) and Texas senator Dan Patrick, and between the three of them, someone made a call or wrote a letter, that got me a call from the head of the evidence department at Pct 4 and told me "come pick up your weapon and stop stirring up trouble". This whole process was a year after I was arrested. I honestly thought after about 5 months, I was not going to see that gun again.

    So for the sake of my fellow gun owners, I personally would not expect a lot of help from the NRA if I was you. To sum it up, I was unlawfully arrested due to the ignorance of a officer who was not familiar with the law, and then after having it confirmed by a judge that there was no case, I had my 2nd amendment rights violated by a district attorney. If that is not a perfect case for the NRA to get involved, I don't know what is.

    In my opinion, the people running the NRA are a bunch of complacent cowards. I hope that Ted Nugent does become the new NRA president, because I would gladly re-new my membership then. He has the back bone that we need to stand up for ALL gun rights (just watch his Texas Monthly interview on youtube).

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    Glad to hear you got the case dropped! Thats why I put "Possible legal representation" in my post lol. I believe we agree that the NRA is just another tool of ours in the box, not the nailgun in the case for us. We are the nailgun in the case.



    One solid truth of the matter:

    For a mere 35$I honestly don't expect that much. LOL

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    Blinn79 wrote:
    Just to inform you, I WAS a member of the NRA for 10 years and they DO NOT help gun owners or their members who are arrested or have fire arms illegally seized. At least they did not help me.

    In 2006, Harris County Pct 4 Constables pulled up on me and a friend who had pulled into a parking lot due to car trouble. We were asked for ID's, and me being a concealed handgun license holder, gave the officer my ID, and CHL. He told me to put my hands on the truck and removed my Glock 23 from my in-the-pants holster. He then went to his car to run our back grounds. Both of us had perfectly clean back grounds, and he told me to put my hands behind my back and was arresting me for "carrying a prohibited weapon in a prohibited place" which is a 3rd degree felony in Texas.

    ...
    Anyways, I politely informed the officer that their must be some mistake, and that I am pretty familiar with the law, and would he please go double check in his car on the his computer..

    Upon my first day in court, I took my penal code book to the judge that I had from the police academy and showed him Texas Penal Code 46.035 (Carrying a prohibited weapon in a prohibited place by a CHL holder), which clearly stated, "it does NOT apply to walkways, drive ways, PARKING LOTS, parking garages...". He dismissed the case immediately.

    ...

    In my opinion, the people running the NRA are a bunch of complacent cowards. I hope that Ted Nugent does become the new NRA president, because I would gladly re-new my membership then. He has the back bone that we need to stand up for ALL gun rights (just watch his Texas Monthly interview on youtube).
    Sounds like you got jacked up by a stubborn and untrained cop. I feel for ya, B79.

    What is the "prohibited place" that you were in? You don't say. Was it a university, police station, courthouse, mental institution,...what?


    Kudos to Texas Rifle Association for helping you out.

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    Blinn79 wrote:
    In my opinion, the people running the NRA are a bunch of complacent cowards. I hope that Ted Nugent does become the new NRA president, because I would gladly re-new my membership then. He has the back bone that we need to stand up for ALL gun rights (just watch his Texas Monthly interview on youtube).
    HenriettaTG missed the point (or avoided it). The thread is "NRA becoming absolete?"

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Blinn79 wrote:
    In my opinion, the people running the NRA are a bunch of complacent cowards. I hope that Ted Nugent does become the new NRA president, because I would gladly re-new my membership then. He has the back bone that we need to stand up for ALL gun rights (just watch his Texas Monthly interview on youtube).
    HenriettaTG missed the point (or avoided it). The thread is "NRA becoming absolete?"
    Only 51 posts away from the coveted OCDO 9,000 post level, Dougs...

    You should make it by ..... Friday. Maybe sooner...if you get on your (high) horse.

    Pre-congrats to you, brother, just in case I'm not around for the big event.

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    HankT wrote:
    just in case I'm not around for the big event.
    We can only hope.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    just in case I'm not around for the big event.
    We can only hope.
    T minus 50 posts...

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    Only 51 posts away from the coveted OCDO 9,000 post level, Dougs...

    You should make it by ..... Friday. Maybe sooner...if you get on your (high) horse.

    Pre-congrats to you, brother, just in case I'm not around for the big event.
    Really Hank this sort of juvenile bashing of members is tiresome and rude.

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    +1

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    The NRA is no friend to open carry. They don't even bother to hold their convention where people can carry handguns.

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    NRA becoming absolete?

    God I hope so!

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    The problem is people forget what the NRA really is. Its mission is firearms training, promoting the shooting sports & administering competitions.
    They try to fight gun legislation but their core mission prevents them being as no compromise as we would like. The very reason GOA & other pro gun groups are here is people are starting to wake up. The NRA will always be here, even when only rich politically connected folks can have guns. They train LEO, most states recognize their training as a requirement for carry permits. They administer matches large & small across the country. These things are why the NRA exists. It should surprise no one who can think that they would not, hell cannot, alienate themselves from our political system & legislature.

    I am a life member of the NRA, but I give GOA my money to fight gun control, they have nothing to lose & everything to gain by going all out in this fight. I honestly think that the NRA-ILA funds should be donated by the NRA to help other grass roots organizations instead of squandered compromising rights away.

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    Leverdude wrote:
    The problem is people forget what the NRA really is. Its mission is firearms training, promoting the shooting sports & administering competitions.
    They try to fight gun legislation but their core mission prevents them being as no compromise as we would like. The very reason GOA & other pro gun groups are here is people are starting to wake up. The NRA will always be here, even when only rich politically connected folks can have guns. They train LEO, most states recognize their training as a requirement for carry permits. They administer matches large & small across the country. These things are why the NRA exists. It should surprise no one who can think that they would not, hell cannot, alienate themselves from our political system & legislature.

    I am a life member of the NRA, but I give GOA my money to fight gun control, they have nothing to lose & everything to gain by going all out in this fight. I honestly think that the NRA-ILA funds should be donated by the NRA to help other grass roots organizations instead of squandered compromising rights away.
    I appreciate that you are a member of both the NRA and the GOA. That seems like a good way to go. I've been thinking about joining the GOA.

    But you seem to fail to see that without the NRA there would be no GOA. The NRA is the daddy. GOA is the offspring. All of us gun owners owe the NRA a deep debt for the work it has done over the last 3 decades. If not for the NRA, our gun ownership/gun buying/gun carryingship capabilities would be vastly reduced from what we have now.

    And you suggest that the NRA-ILA contributions simply be turned over to grass roots orgs? Who would do the national level lobbying, then? That's the important area the is the main mission of the NRA--not competition administration or training.



    Thundar wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Only 51 posts away from the coveted OCDO 9,000 post level, Dougs...

    You should make it by ..... Friday. Maybe sooner...if you get on your (high) horse.

    Pre-congrats to you, brother, just in case I'm not around for the big event.
    Really Hank this sort of juvenile bashing of members is tiresome and rude.
    How in thunder is this "bashing?"

    It's not "bashing" to state that Doug has two posting accounts at OCDO. One with 6,958 posts and another with 1,996 posts.

    How is it "bashing" to say that together, the Dougs have 8,954 posts and that they are nearing the much-coveted and never-before achieved 9,000 post level? It's a significant achievement for Dougs. No one, not Citizen, not LEO 229, not Grapeshot has reached that pinnacle of prolificacy...

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    HankT wrote:

    But you seem to fail to see that without the NRA there would be no GOA. The NRA is the daddy. GOA is the offspring. All of us gun owners owe the NRA a deep debt for the work it has done over the last 3 decades. If not for the NRA, our gun ownership/gun buying/gun carryingship capabilities would be vastly reduced from what we have now.
    I dont believe I fail to see anything. I fail to be fooled & lied to. Think about it, under the NRA's watchfull eye every single piece of gun control now imposed upon us was passed & in most cases endorsed by them. Sure they usually got things watered down a bit so they were less infringing but they still signed on with most of it in the end. Its very hard to find any national gun laws the NRA did not end up supporting.

    Theres no way to say where we'd be at this point without the NRA.

    Why do we owe them a debt? We fund them & in some cases pay them very well for what they do. The NRA officers are not volunteers, I wish I could make half of what LaPierre makes.





    And you suggest that the NRA-ILA contributions simply be turned over to grass roots orgs? Who would do the national level lobbying, then? That's the important area the is the main mission of the NRA--not competition administration or training.
    There is little doubt that if GOA had the funding given to the NRA we would be much better off. The NRA could give literally millions to the GOA instead of donating to campaigns of political crooks who often as not just turn us aside once elected.

    You need to do a bit of research on the NRA if you think they came into being to fight gun control. They came into being in the 1870's to train civilians in marksmanship & grew to administer matches across the country eventually becoming the number one authority on gun training & competition shooting, their core mission is & has always been to promote the shooting sports thru training & competition. They certainly got involved in gun legislation in the early 20th century, makes sense since they are a nationwide firearms authority. However they endorsed all that early legislation & helped lay the groundwork for todays gun control. Heck they endorsed, supported & contributed to NICS which is part of the Brady Bill. They had to because they are so politically intertwined with our legislature.

    Had they instead bowed out & supported GOA with their immense fund raising ability we might not have a Brady bill or NICS & anybody not truly a violent criminal could excercise their RKBA. Instead they sided with the liberals who blamed the VT shootings on the laws that let him get a gun rather than the gun free policy that was really the trouble.

    Unlike the NRA I believe EVERY free person in our country has a right to keep & bear arms. Nobody can tell when someone might snap & laws trying to prevent those snappers from owning guns always disarm more people who would never have hurt a soul & do not deserve to have their rights violated.
    If, even one single innocent person ends up being denied his/her RKBA because of a law that law is wrong, yet NICS has denied countless people wrongly & the NRA endorsed it.

    The NRA should stick to promoting the shooting sports because their position & entanglements prevent them from being as effective in the gun control debates as other unencumbered groups could be IF they had NRA like funding. Least thats how I see it.

    I should add that not ony am I an NRA life member, I am also a certified pistol & rifle trainer as well as a certified NRA RSO, both my children are members as well.
    Trust me, I support the NRA & do not say these things to bash them.
    I'm just tired of people letting themselves be misled.

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    Well said, Leverdude.

    You've got some good points in there.

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    Thank you.

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    Here's a nice article by the NRA specifying its accomplishments. Perhaps some posters in this thread can comment on what the NRA has done. Leverdude?

    Maybe compare and contrast to what GOA has done....



    What The NRA Does For You

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/42775.html



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    You cant seriously think NRA propaganda is a good source for finding their accomplishments can you? As I think I said, I'm not anti NRA & they (we) have done alot of great things.
    That said if we want to turn back the tide, instead of just doing damage control either the NRA needs to stop co operating with gun control efforts or its best to support other less encumbered groups.

    While at this point GOA cannot lay claim to more than the NRA lets see about some of La Pierres claims,

    First and foremost, he can thank the NRA for our 35 years supporting the superb scholarship and practical legal experience that led to the U.S. Supreme Court's June 2008 definitive ruling declaring the Second Amendment to protect an individual constitutional right. That case struck down the District of Columbia's ban on handguns and the ban on any armed self-defense in the home. It wouldn't have happened without the NRA. That goes for the case pending before the same court challenging Chicago's ban and demanding that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms apply to state and local governments.
    the NRA almost sat on the sidelines for Heller, only coming forth when it was becoming obvious that they would be the only national group not involved. A good question to ask here is why the NRA did not bring suit against DC 30 some years ago when the ban passed, or why they let Illinois ban handgun carry or let NYC do as they do.

    The NRA grassroots effort that re-elected President George W. Bush centered on the importance of his high court appointments. Without that total commitment, the court would surely have been dominated by Al Gore's and John Kerry's gun-ban appointees.
    I think Bush woulda got elected anyway, but regardless the man did nothing to strengthen our rights other than nominate a judge or two. He said he'd sign the AWB if it reached his desk & even with both a Rep President & Congress nothing meaningfull came about, other than two wars & trillions of wasted dollars.


    He exercises the right to carry and he can thank the NRA for his "shall-issue" permit. Since 1987, that right has been extended to 40 states with 36 states issuing permits to all qualified applicants.
    As I said, the NRA does some good, but the fact is that permits are infringements and while perhaps better than nothing are not the place to stop & say "Hey! Lookit what I did"

    That brings me to how my young inquirer obtains his firearms. From dealers? At gun shows? From other lawful individuals? Were it not for the NRA, all of those sources would have been closed down long ago.
    Here we see a claim that not only would gun shows be history but retail outlets exist because of the NRA. Utter hogwash.

    Among the citizen safeguards in the landmark 1986 McClure-Volkmer Act, known as the Firearms Owners' Protection Act, is a provision protecting gun owners traversing any state with properly stored firearms. Previous to that, gun owners traveling through states like New Jersey were subject to felony prosecution for illegal possession for transporting a gun in their vehicle. That law reformed the worst provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 and curbed massive abuse of power against gun owners, licensed dealers and collectors.
    He neglects to mention that the NRA endorsed the gun control act of 68, if he wish's credit for fixing it he should take responsability for its creation as well.

    As for the young man's ownership of an AR-15, the NRA was responsible for the sunset provisions of the onerous Clinton gun ban, and we used our collective might to make sure that worthless ban faded from law.
    Thats the one the President (Bush) they got elected said he'd sign right? Those AR's are the ones NRA board member Jim Zumbo bashed with unkind words about their owners arent they?

    Without the NRA, this young man would have no place to shoot or to hunt. Preserving and developing both has long been an aggressive NRA effort, as is our gun safety focus in training millions of gun owners and law enforcement officers.
    Here we see them taking credit for everything shooting related. The biggest reason we have places to hunt is a thing called Pittman Robertson which is focused only on conservation efforts. We need pro gun groups ONLY focused on gun legislation for the same reason. A group like the NRA will never be focused enough to get things back as they were intended to be as far as gun rights.

    The second statement in this quote is why. They train millions of civilians and if that training is to be recognized they must play ball with those who want our rights whittled away. They also train LEO, the guys who will come & lock you up if you violate the law, any law, those the NRA supports & those they are against.
    If the political system decides to stop recognizing NRA training the NRA is dead in the water, they know it & so should we as members.
    The NRA is a great thing & we need them, but people should take the time & make the effort to see exactly whay they are & what they do, how they do it & why they do it. Otherwise you simply cannot make an educated decision regarding who best to donate for pro gun issues.

    If all we do is support the NRA gun control will continue to tighten, not as fast as if they were not here but tighten it will. The bill of rights says RKBA SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED & while I will continue to support & participate in the NRA they are not & will not be my number one choice as far as fighting gun control because they are fine with infringement as long as they endorse it.

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    George Bernard Shaw wrote:
    I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

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    Leverdude wrote:
    You cant seriously think NRA propaganda is a good source for finding their accomplishments can you? As I think I said, I'm not anti NRA & they (we) have done alot of great things.

    The answer is, of course, 'yes.'

    It's the very best starting point. This is premised on the notion that the NRA would be inclined to make sure that such a detailing of accomplishments would include every important and beneficial they could possibly be actually connected to or responsible for.

    It is logical that the NRA/LaPierre didn't leave out anything in its list.

    Now, critical readers of the NRA's list of accomplishments could assess whether that list was accurate, overstated, mis-stated, etc.

    So, 'yes' to your above question.

    All we have to do is consider the NRA article to be the maximum list of NRA accomplishments. Then we can remove those from the list and create a list of confirmed NRAaccomplishments any that it has lied about or overstated.This second list is very valuable in our thinking, strategizing and planning. For all of us, including theanti-NRA folks.

    Both listsare also good for comparing other advocacy organizations, (GOA, SAF, VCDL, BFA, MOC, etc.) to the NRA. Or for understanding why there are differences, if any, between thelist of confirmed NRAaccomplishments and the list of accomplishments ofother 2A-relatedadvocacy orgs.

    If we take one 'accomplishment' on the NRA list and determine by analysis that the NRA really deserves no credit for it--then we can see which other organization deserves credit for it.

    If we confirm that the NRA doesdeserve credit for an 'accomplishment' on the list, then we can still compare to what other advocacy orgs have done on that issue.

    Starting with the NRA list is a fine start in assessing the effectiveness of the NRA, GOA, et al. Saves time. And can get us all to a more educated and knowledgeable level. Better to be educated and knowledgeable about such an important field as that we are dealing with, than not.


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