Leverdude
Regular Member
imported post
Thank you.
Thank you.
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NRA becoming absolete?
- Thread starter Packer fan
- Start date
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
Here's a nice article by the NRA specifying its accomplishments. Perhaps some posters in this thread can comment on what the NRA has done. Leverdude?
Maybe compare and contrast to what GOA has done....
What The NRA Does For You
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/42775.html
Here's a nice article by the NRA specifying its accomplishments. Perhaps some posters in this thread can comment on what the NRA has done. Leverdude?
Maybe compare and contrast to what GOA has done....
What The NRA Does For You
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/42775.html
Leverdude
Regular Member
imported post
You cant seriously think NRA propaganda is a good source for finding their accomplishments can you? As I think I said, I'm not anti NRA & they (we) have done alot of great things.
That said if we want to turn back the tide, instead of just doing damage control either the NRA needs to stop co operating with gun control efforts or its best to support other less encumbered groups.
While at this point GOA cannot lay claim to more than the NRA lets see about some of La Pierres claims,
I think Bush woulda got elected anyway, but regardless the man did nothing to strengthen our rights other than nominate a judge or two. He said he'd sign the AWB if it reached his desk & even with both a Rep President & Congress nothing meaningfull came about, other than two wars & trillions of wasted dollars.
Here we see a claim that not only would gun shows be history but retail outlets exist because of the NRA. Utter hogwash.
The second statement in this quote is why. They train millions of civilians and if that training is to be recognized they must play ball with those who want our rights whittled away. They also train LEO, the guys who will come & lock you up if you violate the law, any law, those the NRA supports & those they are against.
If the political system decides to stop recognizing NRA training the NRA is dead in the water, they know it & so should we as members.
The NRA is a great thing & we need them, but people should take the time & make the effort to see exactly whay they are & what they do, how they do it & why they do it. Otherwise you simply cannot make an educated decision regarding who best to donate for pro gun issues.
If all we do is support the NRA gun control will continue to tighten, not as fast as if they were not here but tighten it will. The bill of rights says RKBA SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED & while I will continue to support & participate in the NRA they are not & will not be my number one choice as far as fighting gun control because they are fine with infringement as long as they endorse it.
You cant seriously think NRA propaganda is a good source for finding their accomplishments can you? As I think I said, I'm not anti NRA & they (we) have done alot of great things.
That said if we want to turn back the tide, instead of just doing damage control either the NRA needs to stop co operating with gun control efforts or its best to support other less encumbered groups.
While at this point GOA cannot lay claim to more than the NRA lets see about some of La Pierres claims,
the NRA almost sat on the sidelines for Heller, only coming forth when it was becoming obvious that they would be the only national group not involved. A good question to ask here is why the NRA did not bring suit against DC 30 some years ago when the ban passed, or why they let Illinois ban handgun carry or let NYC do as they do.
I think Bush woulda got elected anyway, but regardless the man did nothing to strengthen our rights other than nominate a judge or two. He said he'd sign the AWB if it reached his desk & even with both a Rep President & Congress nothing meaningfull came about, other than two wars & trillions of wasted dollars.
As I said, the NRA does some good, but the fact is that permits are infringements and while perhaps better than nothing are not the place to stop & say "Hey! Lookit what I did"
Here we see a claim that not only would gun shows be history but retail outlets exist because of the NRA. Utter hogwash.
He neglects to mention that the NRA endorsed the gun control act of 68, if he wish's credit for fixing it he should take responsability for its creation as well.
Thats the one the President (Bush) they got elected said he'd sign right? Those AR's are the ones NRA board member Jim Zumbo bashed with unkind words about their owners arent they?
Here we see them taking credit for everything shooting related. The biggest reason we have places to hunt is a thing called Pittman Robertson which is focused only on conservation efforts. We need pro gun groups ONLY focused on gun legislation for the same reason. A group like the NRA will never be focused enough to get things back as they were intended to be as far as gun rights.
The second statement in this quote is why. They train millions of civilians and if that training is to be recognized they must play ball with those who want our rights whittled away. They also train LEO, the guys who will come & lock you up if you violate the law, any law, those the NRA supports & those they are against.
If the political system decides to stop recognizing NRA training the NRA is dead in the water, they know it & so should we as members.
The NRA is a great thing & we need them, but people should take the time & make the effort to see exactly whay they are & what they do, how they do it & why they do it. Otherwise you simply cannot make an educated decision regarding who best to donate for pro gun issues.
If all we do is support the NRA gun control will continue to tighten, not as fast as if they were not here but tighten it will. The bill of rights says RKBA SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED & while I will continue to support & participate in the NRA they are not & will not be my number one choice as far as fighting gun control because they are fine with infringement as long as they endorse it.
Master Doug Huffman
Banned
imported post
George Bernard Shaw wrote:
George Bernard Shaw wrote:
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
Leverdude wrote:
The answer is, of course, 'yes.'
It's the very best starting point. This is premised on the notion that the NRA would be inclined to make sure that such a detailing of accomplishments would include every important and beneficial they could possibly be actually connected to or responsible for.
It is logical that the NRA/LaPierre didn't leave out anything in its list.
Now, critical readers of the NRA's list of accomplishments could assess whether that list was accurate, overstated, mis-stated, etc.
So, 'yes' to your above question.
All we have to do is consider the NRA article to be the maximum list of NRA accomplishments. Then we can remove those from the list and create a list of confirmed NRAaccomplishments any that it has lied about or overstated.This second list is very valuable in our thinking, strategizing and planning. For all of us, including theanti-NRA folks.
Both listsare also good for comparing other advocacy organizations, (GOA, SAF, VCDL, BFA, MOC, etc.) to the NRA. Or for understanding why there are differences, if any, between thelist of confirmed NRAaccomplishments and the list of accomplishments ofother 2A-relatedadvocacy orgs.
If we take one 'accomplishment' on the NRA list and determine by analysis that the NRA really deserves no credit for it--then we can see which other organization deserves credit for it.
If we confirm that the NRA doesdeserve credit for an 'accomplishment' on the list, then we can still compare to what other advocacy orgs have done on that issue.
Starting with the NRA list is a fine start in assessing the effectiveness of the NRA, GOA, et al. Saves time. And can get us all to a more educated and knowledgeable level. Better to be educated and knowledgeable about such an important field as that we are dealing with, than not.
Leverdude wrote:
The answer is, of course, 'yes.'
It's the very best starting point. This is premised on the notion that the NRA would be inclined to make sure that such a detailing of accomplishments would include every important and beneficial they could possibly be actually connected to or responsible for.
It is logical that the NRA/LaPierre didn't leave out anything in its list.
Now, critical readers of the NRA's list of accomplishments could assess whether that list was accurate, overstated, mis-stated, etc.
So, 'yes' to your above question.
All we have to do is consider the NRA article to be the maximum list of NRA accomplishments. Then we can remove those from the list and create a list of confirmed NRAaccomplishments any that it has lied about or overstated.This second list is very valuable in our thinking, strategizing and planning. For all of us, including theanti-NRA folks.
Both listsare also good for comparing other advocacy organizations, (GOA, SAF, VCDL, BFA, MOC, etc.) to the NRA. Or for understanding why there are differences, if any, between thelist of confirmed NRAaccomplishments and the list of accomplishments ofother 2A-relatedadvocacy orgs.
If we take one 'accomplishment' on the NRA list and determine by analysis that the NRA really deserves no credit for it--then we can see which other organization deserves credit for it.
If we confirm that the NRA doesdeserve credit for an 'accomplishment' on the list, then we can still compare to what other advocacy orgs have done on that issue.
Starting with the NRA list is a fine start in assessing the effectiveness of the NRA, GOA, et al. Saves time. And can get us all to a more educated and knowledgeable level. Better to be educated and knowledgeable about such an important field as that we are dealing with, than not.
Leverdude
Regular Member
imported post
I agree with everything you said except,
Because, I was questioning if you thought that list a good source of genuine NRA accomplishments. From what I now gather I think you are saying its a worthwhile thing to dissect & ferret out the truth from and, as I said I do agree. I had thought you were suggesting I/we just accept the propaganda at face value.
I agree with everything you said except,
Because, I was questioning if you thought that list a good source of genuine NRA accomplishments. From what I now gather I think you are saying its a worthwhile thing to dissect & ferret out the truth from and, as I said I do agree. I had thought you were suggesting I/we just accept the propaganda at face value.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
First off... it's spelled 'obsolete... with an 'o'.
The NRA isa business. It's cash cow is advertising... not memberships. The advertisers generally haven't been 'carry' oriented 'til somewhat recently. NRA is also rife with FUDDS... (the weekend golfers with guns).What's pushing 2A RKBA is outfits like VCDL, AzCDL et al. The general public and the MSMhowever will near automatically attribute any gun legislation (pro or con) to the NRA 'cause it's a KNOWN.
The anti's will always refer to NRA 'talking points'... even tho there are none. Not that facts ever bothered a dedicated anti... but it rolls off their tongues like gun nut... and right wing activist. That 'carry' is an actualcivil right escapes them. The people in MD, NJ, NY, IL and even CA have to tolerate this constant propaganda and institutionalized endemic racially motivated denial of RKBA by their MSM and hoplophobic politicians. (If you think it doesn't have racist roots,... go look up Bearing Arms 1867 Maryland Constitutional Convention.)
NRA has done 'squat' to promote any for of the 2A as a right to self defense in those states which do not have any 'right to bear arms' in their state constitutions. I'm a member... grudgingly. They get my dues 'cause I get National Rifleman in return. That's the extent of it.
First off... it's spelled 'obsolete... with an 'o'.
The NRA isa business. It's cash cow is advertising... not memberships. The advertisers generally haven't been 'carry' oriented 'til somewhat recently. NRA is also rife with FUDDS... (the weekend golfers with guns).What's pushing 2A RKBA is outfits like VCDL, AzCDL et al. The general public and the MSMhowever will near automatically attribute any gun legislation (pro or con) to the NRA 'cause it's a KNOWN.
The anti's will always refer to NRA 'talking points'... even tho there are none. Not that facts ever bothered a dedicated anti... but it rolls off their tongues like gun nut... and right wing activist. That 'carry' is an actualcivil right escapes them. The people in MD, NJ, NY, IL and even CA have to tolerate this constant propaganda and institutionalized endemic racially motivated denial of RKBA by their MSM and hoplophobic politicians. (If you think it doesn't have racist roots,... go look up Bearing Arms 1867 Maryland Constitutional Convention.)
NRA has done 'squat' to promote any for of the 2A as a right to self defense in those states which do not have any 'right to bear arms' in their state constitutions. I'm a member... grudgingly. They get my dues 'cause I get National Rifleman in return. That's the extent of it.
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Maybe you could obtain the magazine on the open market somehow. Then you could end your NRA membership ...and have some more validity in your anti-NRA position.
Blinn79
Regular Member
imported post
HankT wrote:
HankT wrote:
The "prohibited place" was a middle school (junior high) @ 9pm on a friday night. Nobody, including staff members, where there. We had pulled maybe 10 feet into the edge of the parking lot. The school was easily 80 to 100 yards away.
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
Master Doug Huffman wrote:
[align=left]
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Dougs did it!!!!!
9,000 posts!!!!
Congratumalations Dougs!
How fitting that your 9,000th post would be a post in a thread about the organization that certifies you as a Instructor.
!
Dougs is now the Numero Unos OCDO poster of all time!
More than LEO 229....more thanCitizen.... more than everyone.
The only one that can possibly catch you now is...Grapeshot.....maybe he'll do it. He's got a shot.
Keep up the pace, Dougs. You know youse can do it.
And onward...ever onward... toward the previously unthinkable........
[align=left]10,000 Posts!!!!
[/align]
Master Doug Huffman wrote:
[align=left]
Dougs did it!!!!!
9,000 posts!!!!
Congratumalations Dougs!
How fitting that your 9,000th post would be a post in a thread about the organization that certifies you as a Instructor.
!
Dougs is now the Numero Unos OCDO poster of all time!
More than LEO 229....more thanCitizen.... more than everyone.
The only one that can possibly catch you now is...Grapeshot.....maybe he'll do it. He's got a shot.
Keep up the pace, Dougs. You know youse can do it.
And onward...ever onward... toward the previously unthinkable........
[align=left]10,000 Posts!!!!
[/align]
Brimstone Baritone
Regular Member
imported post
^^^ Stalker much?
^^^ Stalker much?
Uber_Olafsun
Regular Member
imported post
Yes and no
The one good thing is that it is a national group that everyone knows about. The bad is that they are only thinking nationally and really "picking" their fights. I have gotten more updates from VCDL then the NRA and the local groups seem more focused on the rights as a whole not just let us carry concealed rules.
Now if only the local groups could fully get together on the national level. Be able to feed off one another. Look at state A that bans weapons has crime rate X but state B allows anything and their crime rate is Y. State B then says look at State A changing their laws and now their crime rate is Z.
Guess can't have our cake and eat it too.
Yes and no
The one good thing is that it is a national group that everyone knows about. The bad is that they are only thinking nationally and really "picking" their fights. I have gotten more updates from VCDL then the NRA and the local groups seem more focused on the rights as a whole not just let us carry concealed rules.
Now if only the local groups could fully get together on the national level. Be able to feed off one another. Look at state A that bans weapons has crime rate X but state B allows anything and their crime rate is Y. State B then says look at State A changing their laws and now their crime rate is Z.
Guess can't have our cake and eat it too.
stainless1911
Banned
imported post
NRA= N egotiate R ights A way
And they heavent been supporting open carry.
NRA= N egotiate R ights A way
And they heavent been supporting open carry.
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
Uber_Olafsun wrote:
I think the nature of the system is that pro-2A/pro-gun rights is an international/national/state/local complex.
All the advocacy groups have their mission and scope. But they must also work together and in concert to improve/maintain the total pro-gun/pro-2A effort.
For a VCDL (or BFA, etc.) member to say, "We don't need the NRA" is as foolish as for the NRA member to say, "We don't need the VCDL (or BFA, etc.)."
I want maximization of proponency for my 2A/guns. Cutting out the NRA,which is impossible anyway, is not the way to do it.
If you can only afford to join one advocacy group, join the NRA. It provides the best ROI.
If you can afford to join more than one, join as many as are relevant to your interests...
Uber_Olafsun wrote:
I think the nature of the system is that pro-2A/pro-gun rights is an international/national/state/local complex.
All the advocacy groups have their mission and scope. But they must also work together and in concert to improve/maintain the total pro-gun/pro-2A effort.
For a VCDL (or BFA, etc.) member to say, "We don't need the NRA" is as foolish as for the NRA member to say, "We don't need the VCDL (or BFA, etc.)."
I want maximization of proponency for my 2A/guns. Cutting out the NRA,which is impossible anyway, is not the way to do it.
If you can only afford to join one advocacy group, join the NRA. It provides the best ROI.
If you can afford to join more than one, join as many as are relevant to your interests...
Packer fan
Regular Member
imported post
HankT wrote:
HankT wrote:
I think Hank has a crush on Doug:>Master Doug Huffman wrote:
[align=left][/align]
Dougs did it!!!!!
9,000 posts!!!!
Congratumalations Dougs!
How fitting that your 9,000th post would be a post in a thread about the organization that certifies you as a Instructor.
!
Dougs is now the Numero Unos OCDO poster of all time!
More than LEO 229....more thanCitizen.... more than everyone.
The only one that can possibly catch you now is...Grapeshot.....maybe he'll do it. He's got a shot.
Keep up the pace, Dougs. You know youse can do it.
And onward...ever onward... toward the previously unthinkable........
[align=left]10,000 Posts!!!!
[/align]
soldier.53
Regular Member
imported post
I will END my member ship with the NRA as of the 17th! I have been a member of the NRA from 1970 to date, BUT if they will not stand up for WE THE PEOPLE THAT PUT THEM IN THERE JOBS TO HE11 WITH THE NRA! POINT IN CASE MR. DAVID OLOFSON! WHAT THE HE11 HAPPEN TO THE NRA? THEY HAVE GOT TO BIG AND LOST THERE WAY!
AS A RETIRED ARMY VET AND A E-7 TO HE11 WITH THE FAT CATS THAT WILL TURN THEY BACKS WHEN A GOOD PERSON NEEDS THEM!!!!!!!! G.O.A. ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!
I will END my member ship with the NRA as of the 17th! I have been a member of the NRA from 1970 to date, BUT if they will not stand up for WE THE PEOPLE THAT PUT THEM IN THERE JOBS TO HE11 WITH THE NRA! POINT IN CASE MR. DAVID OLOFSON! WHAT THE HE11 HAPPEN TO THE NRA? THEY HAVE GOT TO BIG AND LOST THERE WAY!
AS A RETIRED ARMY VET AND A E-7 TO HE11 WITH THE FAT CATS THAT WILL TURN THEY BACKS WHEN A GOOD PERSON NEEDS THEM!!!!!!!! G.O.A. ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!
stainless1911
Banned
imported post
Be sure to tell them why.
Im not renewing until the NRA takes an obvious and active role in promoting OC.
Be sure to tell them why.
Im not renewing until the NRA takes an obvious and active role in promoting OC.
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
soldier.53 wrote:
Wow. You've been a member of the NRA for 37 years.
That's waymore than most people.
Are you a member of the GOA already?
soldier.53 wrote:
Wow. You've been a member of the NRA for 37 years.
That's waymore than most people.
Are you a member of the GOA already?
soldier.53
Regular Member
imported post
As of the 17th I will be! My Dad paid for my first member ship after 1973 I picked up the bill!
As of the 17th I will be! My Dad paid for my first member ship after 1973 I picked up the bill!
soldier.53
Regular Member
imported post
At one time I called the fat cats to give me the name of a gun Attorney and this nut told me he did not do gun law all the time but for $5000.00 down he would help me? I asked him if he ever did a gun case in his live? he told me no but he may be able to help me? MAY BE ABLE TO HELP ME FOR $5000.00 DOWN? AND IT WOULD COST MORE AS THE CASE WENT ON? I asked if he knows a Attorney that has worked a gun case and won? he told me not at this time, he would be my best chance I told him I will look for a good Attorney one that has worked in the field! he tried to call me but I told me he was my best bet? I told him to have a great day! I called the NRA and they gave me a two number's and the numbers where out of order!? I called the NRA AND ASK THEM IF THEY WOULD GET THERE HEAD OUT OF THERE A$$ AND PLEASE GIVE ME A GOOD NUMBER TO A GUN Attorney!! THEY DID NOT HAVE ONE IN MI?????? BUT I CALLED THEM AND ASKED IF THEY COULD HELP ME AND SENT THEM A LETTER TO HELP ME WITH THE COST AFTER I FOUND A Attorney THEY TOLD ME NO! SO TO HE11 WITH THE FAT CATS AT THE NRA, THEY HAVE LOST THERE WAY! THEY LOVE THE MONEY WE PAY THEM TO GO FISHING ON US! AND ALL THE TRIPS THEY TAKE ON WE THE PEOPLE!! IF WE ALL SEND A MESSAGE TO NRA THAT WE THE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO STAND BY THEM IF THEY WILL NOT STAND BY US!!!
At one time I called the fat cats to give me the name of a gun Attorney and this nut told me he did not do gun law all the time but for $5000.00 down he would help me? I asked him if he ever did a gun case in his live? he told me no but he may be able to help me? MAY BE ABLE TO HELP ME FOR $5000.00 DOWN? AND IT WOULD COST MORE AS THE CASE WENT ON? I asked if he knows a Attorney that has worked a gun case and won? he told me not at this time, he would be my best chance I told him I will look for a good Attorney one that has worked in the field! he tried to call me but I told me he was my best bet? I told him to have a great day! I called the NRA and they gave me a two number's and the numbers where out of order!? I called the NRA AND ASK THEM IF THEY WOULD GET THERE HEAD OUT OF THERE A$$ AND PLEASE GIVE ME A GOOD NUMBER TO A GUN Attorney!! THEY DID NOT HAVE ONE IN MI?????? BUT I CALLED THEM AND ASKED IF THEY COULD HELP ME AND SENT THEM A LETTER TO HELP ME WITH THE COST AFTER I FOUND A Attorney THEY TOLD ME NO! SO TO HE11 WITH THE FAT CATS AT THE NRA, THEY HAVE LOST THERE WAY! THEY LOVE THE MONEY WE PAY THEM TO GO FISHING ON US! AND ALL THE TRIPS THEY TAKE ON WE THE PEOPLE!! IF WE ALL SEND A MESSAGE TO NRA THAT WE THE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO STAND BY THEM IF THEY WILL NOT STAND BY US!!!