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Thread: Questions about surrendering firearms to police...

  1. #1
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    I open carry very often and while it hasn't happened yet, I'd like to know what my rights are when I'm asked by police to surrender my weapon.



    Here's an example of where I'm unsure:



    Whenever I'm stopped by police I always shut the car off, turn on the overhead light, open the window and put my hands at 10 & 2. I've never been stopped when carrying but if I am and being left-handed, I'll have to roll to the right to get my wallet from my back pocket. At this point an openly carried weapon will likely become visible to the police. My plan was always to first notify the officer that I carry a valid NH pistol license and I have a .45 on my left side. Since I'm unsure of my rights beyond this point, I'd have no choice but to do whatever I'm told.



    I've had friends who have been removed from the car at gunpoint at this juncture and other that have voluntarily surrendered their firearm at the request of the police for "both of their safety". I don’t know anyone who has kindly declined a request to surrender their gun.



    In a situation like this, what am I obligated to do? What are my rights and how does the law protect me? If an unlawful request is being demanded even after I inform them of the unlawfulness of their request, what do I do? Drive to a police station? Submit? Insist on a supervisor? I realize I'm supposed to follow the instructions of the police but if they are giving an instruction I know is illegal and it's involving the surrender of my weapon, to me, thats another story.



    If I don’t have to surrender it, I don’t plan to. I'm not one to give up rights to avoid a ticket, etc. If I did wrong, I'd prefer to pay for it with cash, not constitutional liberties.



    Any input would be appreciated.



    Thanks,

    NHOC

  2. #2
    McX
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    stopped by this one. i have no valid credential to speak of car carry. our state has no real car carry. but if it was me, i'd do the inform bit, then wait and see what kind of cop you get that day. i'm sure he will have no problem telling you what, if anything to do next. comply, so it won't escalate roadside, if your offended, take it to the station after the encounter is over.

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    The street is NOT the place to argue with or attempt to educate an officer.

    You may always state I do not voluntarily consent to disarming, pat down or whatever but will not resist or refuse if you so demand.

    Follow up after the fact, if you feel you were wrong/violated.

    Disarming a driver at a traffic stop is related to officer safety et al and much depends on your state laws and court decisions.

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
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    In the process of doing all your stuff, remove your firearm and put it somewhere near when you get into your car. When asked to get out of the car, get out and lock your door and it's safely in your car and not surrendered.

  5. #5
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    nhoc wrote:

    I open carry very often and while it hasn't happened yet, I'd like to know what my rights are when I'm asked by police to surrender my weapon.



    Here's an example of where I'm unsure:



    Whenever I'm stopped by police I always shut the car off, turn on the overhead light, open the window and put my hands at 10 & 2. I've never been stopped when carrying but if I am and being left-handed, I'll have to roll to the right to get my wallet from my back pocket. At this point an openly carried weapon will likely become visible to the police. My plan was always to first notify the officer that I carry a valid NH pistol license and I have a .45 on my left side. Since I'm unsure of my rights beyond this point, I'd have no choice but to do whatever I'm told.



    I've had friends who have been removed from the car at gunpoint at this juncture and other that have voluntarily surrendered their firearm at the request of the police for "both of their safety". I don’t know anyone who has kindly declined a request to surrender their gun.



    In a situation like this, what am I obligated to do? What are my rights and how does the law protect me? If an unlawful request is being demanded even after I inform them of the unlawfulness of their request, what do I do? Drive to a police station? Submit? Insist on a supervisor? I realize I'm supposed to follow the instructions of the police but if they are giving an instruction I know is illegal and it's involving the surrender of my weapon, to me, thats another story.



    If I don’t have to surrender it, I don’t plan to. I'm not one to give up rights to avoid a ticket, etc. If I did wrong, I'd prefer to pay for it with cash, not constitutional liberties.



    Any input would be appreciated.



    Thanks,

    NHOC
    What I found out after doing a ride along with my local PD is if your pulled over by a PD other then the one that issued you the CCW they will have no record of your CCW other then what you hand them. My PD said if stop in town and my information is ran it will come back that I have a CCW even if I choose not to inform the officer that I have one and that I'M armed. Remember NH is not a must inform state meaning your under no obligation to even inform the officer that your armed when stopped. If it's just a traffic stop I would not bother with it just keep your hands in view and you should be fine. I keep all my information in one easy to reach place so i don't have to do a lot of reaching.
    Best thing you can do is what Doobie says if asked to get out of the car remove the weapon and leave it in the locked car. Watch this video it will give you some good tips also give them a call they are great.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCe6...eature=related

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    NewHampshireNative2005 wrote:
    Best thing you can do is what Doobie says if asked to get out of the car remove the weapon and leave it in the locked car.
    That is not what Doobie is saying. He is saying to remove it before you even start the car to leave.

    The LAST thing you want to do is attempt to remove a firearm from your person during a traffic stop. That can make a bad day even worse.





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    nhsig220 wrote:
    NewHampshireNative2005 wrote:
    Best thing you can do is what Doobie says if asked to get out of the car remove the weapon and leave it in the locked car.
    That is not what Doobie is saying. He is saying to remove it before you even start the car to leave.

    The LAST thing you want to do is attempt to remove a firearm from your person during a traffic stop. That can make a bad day even worse.



    Yeah, don't touch your firearm once the cops are near. They'll use that as grounds to relieve the pressure in your head or chest permanently. I've had a number of occasions I've taken my pistol out and left it on the dash.... never been stopped doing that.... But make sure that it is on a non-slip surface. You don't want it sliding onto the floor or our of your reach.

    This also doesn't work if it is loaded and a non-license holder is in the car...

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    nhsig220 wrote:
    NewHampshireNative2005 wrote:
    Best thing you can do is what Doobie says if asked to get out of the car remove the weapon and leave it in the locked car.
    That is not what Doobie is saying. He is saying to remove it before you even start the car to leave.

    The LAST thing you want to do is attempt to remove a firearm from your person during a traffic stop. That can make a bad day even worse.



    LOL sorry I seem to have typo that by adding "Removing" yes don't touch it when your at a traffic stop. I always keep mine on me while in the car unless we are going to be driving for a while then I stick it in the drivers side door panel or glove box. Bottom line is if your asked to get out of your car for any reason. Roll up the windows and lock the car before getting out.

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    i open carry mostly but if i was concealed i would not mention it as was said you don't have too.

    i was pulled for speeding a while back and was open carry but he could not see it. I happen to have a shrunken down laminated copy of my permit in with my reg and insuarnce card, i handed them over to him. He asked me "do you have a gun on you now" i said "yes". he asked me "is it loaded" i said " yes" and he was like "fine".

    i think the car issue is they want to know you have the permit as that is a legal must. if they know you passed a backround check they done't care

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrgrn View Post
    SNIP If they know you passed a backround check they done't care
    Unfortunately, not all cops use judgement. We have had more than one report of a cop who automatically seized the gun temporarily without regard to permit. Coupled with multiple reports of foot encounters where cops said they needed to check if the person was legal to carry, it would seem some cops, rather than use judgement, just automatically seize guns so they can run serial numbers--just more fishing expedition.

    The moral of the story is that if you disclose, sooner or later your gun may be seized "just because."

  11. #11
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    Defend yourself if the tyrant calls

    Senator Samuel Pomeroy, debate of 14th A, as quoted by the MacDonald court opinion: "Every man...should have the right to bear arms for the defence of himself and family and his homestead. And if the cabin door of the freedman is broken open and the intruder enters for purposes as vile as were known to slavery, thenshould a well-loaded musket be in the hand of the occupant to send the polluted wretch to another world, where his wretchedness will forever remain complete."

  12. #12
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    i think it should be surrendering your firearm to police only if you trade up.

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    Oklahoma

    Oklahoma is a notify state if and when stopped by the police you must produce your concealed carry permit with your license and car insurance. I have been stopped 3 times and the officer requested to see the weapons I had on board. Being an oldwest re-enactor it was no problem showing him the collection of weapons used in our gunfights. All of those weapons were empty. Only once when stopped was I asked for my concealed weapon. I informed the officer that I had to step out of the car to remove it from inside my waist band (Pager Pal Holster). When I stepped outside my vehicle I informed him that before I let him have a look at my weapon that I must unload it first. Never ever hand a loaded weapon to anyone law enforcement included. After unloading My Makarov 9x18 I presented my weapon. He looked at it and we had a discussion on the merits of my choice in handguns. His interest was curiosity and nothing more. He handed me back my piece and we went about our seperate ways. Oh by the way he only wrote me a warning for my discression of speeding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gprod55 View Post
    Oklahoma is a notify state if and when stopped by the police you must produce your concealed carry permit with your license and car insurance. I have been stopped 3 times and the officer requested to see the weapons I had on board. Being an oldwest re-enactor it was no problem showing him the collection of weapons used in our gunfights. All of those weapons were empty. Only once when stopped was I asked for my concealed weapon. I informed the officer that I had to step out of the car to remove it from inside my waist band (Pager Pal Holster). When I stepped outside my vehicle I informed him that before I let him have a look at my weapon that I must unload it first. Never ever hand a loaded weapon to anyone law enforcement included. After unloading My Makarov 9x18 I presented my weapon. He looked at it and we had a discussion on the merits of my choice in handguns. His interest was curiosity and nothing more. He handed me back my piece and we went about our seperate ways. Oh by the way he only wrote me a warning for my discression of speeding.
    I fail to see how this has anything to do with the thread topic? The poster lives in NH and asked about NH laws not what OK laws state. In New Hampshire if you have a concealed weapons permit the only time it will show up is in your own town/city. I asked My PD one night while doing a ride along and they said if the officer is from the PD who gave you the permit when they run your DL it will come back that you have the permit. He then said if any other PD pulls you over when they run your DL it will not come back as you having a permit. New Hampshire is not a inform state and unless asked you do not have to tell them you have a weapon. The officer I spoke to said just keep your hands at ten and two on the wheel and you should be fine.

    That is why NH law states that if you move you must inform the new PD in writing that you have moved into town and that you have a CCW. So your new town/city PD will have you in their data base as having a CCW if they ever pull you over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireNative2005 View Post
    I fail to see how this has anything to do with the thread topic? The poster lives in NH and asked about NH laws not what OK laws state. In New Hampshire if you have a concealed weapons permit the only time it will show up is in your own town/city. I asked My PD one night while doing a ride along and they said if the officer is from the PD who gave you the permit when they run your DL it will come back that you have the permit. He then said if any other PD pulls you over when they run your DL it will not come back as you having a permit. New Hampshire is not a inform state and unless asked you do not have to tell them you have a weapon. The officer I spoke to said just keep your hands at ten and two on the wheel and you should be fine.

    That is why NH law states that if you move you must inform the new PD in writing that you have moved into town and that you have a CCW. So your new town/city PD will have you in their data base as having a CCW if they ever pull you over.
    My response was to notify him that not all officers who pull you over for other reasons are nothing more then curious about your choice of weapons. This goes for any state not just for Oklahoma. Be proud of the fact that you can legally carry a weapon and choose to do so. I am.

  16. #16
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    Inform the officer as soon as possible

    Whenever I'm stopped by police I always shut the car off, turn on the overhead light, open the window and put my hands at 10 & 2. I've never been stopped when carrying but if I am and being left-handed, I'll have to roll to the right to get my wallet from my back pocket. At this point an openly carried weapon will likely become visible to the police. My plan was always to first notify the officer that I carry a valid NH pistol license and I have a .45 on my left side. Since I'm unsure of my rights beyond this point, I'd have no choice but to do whatever I'm told.


    Make sure when the officer first speaks to you the first thing you should say is i have a pisol permit and im carrying a concealed pistol about your persons and keep your hands on the steering wheel my brother in-law is a virginian police officer who has been pulled over in multiple states because of the many benefits of being an officer and the first thing out his mouth is "I am a police officer and i am armed"

    I've had friends who have been removed from the car at gunpoint at this juncture and other that have voluntarily surrendered their firearm at the request of the police for "both of their safety". I don’t know anyone who has kindly declined a request to surrender their gun.



    In a situation like this, what am I obligated to do? What are my rights and how does the law protect me? If an unlawful request is being demanded even after I inform them of the unlawfulness of their request, what do I do? Drive to a police station? Submit? Insist on a supervisor? I realize I'm supposed to follow the instructions of the police but if they are giving an instruction I know is illegal and it's involving the surrender of my weapon, to me, thats another story.



    If I don’t have to surrender it, I don’t plan to. I'm not one to give up rights to avoid a ticket, etc. If I did wrong, I'd prefer to pay for it with cash, not constitutional liberties.



    Any input would be appreciated.



    Thanks,

    NHOC[/QUOTE]

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    Furthermore

    The officer may temporarily secure the firearm for the duraration of the traffic stop since u are technically detained by police officer during a traffic stop" you cant leave right?" but at the conclusion of the stop they must return it to you (probably a good idea to inform them whether its loaded or not during initial contact)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sethman View Post
    The officer may temporarily secure the firearm for the duraration of the traffic stop since u are technically detained by police officer during a traffic stop" you cant leave right?" but at the conclusion of the stop they must return it to you (probably a good idea to inform them whether its loaded or not during initial contact)
    This is not always the case in GA. In a 2008 case State v. Jones, the unanimous state supreme court ruled that police do not have carte blanch authority to secure all weapons in a traffic stop.
    Georgia decisions agree that in order to justify a search of a vehicle for weapons, some conduct on the part of the occupants such as furtive movements or other indications of danger to the officer must be shown, and the officer must have an "objectively reasonable" belief that the occupants of a vehicle are "potentially dangerous." Silva v. State, 278 Ga. 506, 508 (604 SE2d 171) (2004) (driver leaned under seat as if to conceal weapon and drove recklessly while in that position, then offered implausible explanation for his conduct.) Here, no evidence was presented of furtive movements or danger; in fact, the officer candidly acknowledged that the search was merely his standard procedure because any firearm might be stolen. On its face, as noted by Jones, this policy justifies the search of any vehicle occupied by hunters or sport shooters with their firearms, or any pickup truck with a rifle or shotgun on the rear window rack. This is precisely the danger of "carte blanche authority to `secure' all weapons during a routine traffic stop," noted by the special concurrence in Megesi, supra, 277 Ga. App. at 860.
    Don't freely surrender your weapon. Do what you think is right but be polite, firm, deny consent to search, say as little as possible, and followup on the encounter with the officer's CLEO.

    Even Terry v. Ohio says the officer must have an objectively reasonable fear the suspect is armed and dangerous before frisking the person.

  19. #19
    McX
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    never surrender your firearm to the police unless your trading up.

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