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Thread: CC in a PFZ..former LEO

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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    So do former LEO have to follow the same rules as us Joe Citizen's??? The situaiton is this person is CCing on school property. I do know he's a former deputy. Not employed by them now. Not looking to rat him out, but wondered if he'd get into the same trouble like anyone else.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Jblack44 wrote:
    So do former LEO have to follow the same rules as us Joe Citizen's???* The situaiton is this person is CCing on school property. I do know he's a former deputy. Not employed by them now.* Not looking to rat him out, but wondered if he'd get into the same trouble like anyone else.
    Yes, unless the former LEO is retired, and has himself a proper Retired LEO ID that is LEOSA compliant - then he has more rights.

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    Jblack44 wrote:
    So do former LEO have to follow the same rules as us Joe Citizen's??? The situaiton is this person is CCing on school property. I do know he's a former deputy. Not employed by them now. Not looking to rat him out, but wondered if he'd get into the same trouble like anyone else.

    HR 218 for active and retired LEO's:

    http://www.leaa.org/218/218text.html

    SEC. 3. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

    (a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is further amended by inserting after section 926B the following:

    `Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers


    `(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

    `(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--


    `(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or


    `(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.



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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    Well he's not retired...victim of downsizing. Thanks for the info. I was wondering when I noticed him printing last time I saw him.


    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Jblack44 wrote:
    Well he's not retired...victim of downsizing. Thanks for the info. I was wondering when I noticed him printing last time I saw him.

    If he is not retired and is not currently a LEO then he is breaking the law by carrying CC in a school.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member mel5051's Avatar
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    There is a good chance that his CPL has the exemption box checked for PFZ's. Many of the laid off deputies are eligible for call back. Most have been accepted into the Reserve program.

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    mel5051 wrote:
    There is a good chance that his CPL has the exemption box checked for PFZ's. Many of the laid off deputies are eligible for call back. Most have been accepted into the Reserve program.
    If laid off, fired or quit, this is how they maintain their certifications.

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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    mel5051 wrote:
    There is a good chance that his CPL has the exemption box checked for PFZ's. Many of the laid off deputies are eligible for call back. Most have been accepted into the Reserve program.
    That's what I wondered.I may bring it up in the future to him and see.

    We are on school property, but it's for a baseball league. So only using the grounds. I'm still not 100% sure of the laws regarding school property. I currently have a CPL and know that I can OC there. But what happens as soon as I get in my car. Since I'm not dropping off or picking up my child from school, wouldn't I be considered CC on the property at that point?
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Jblack44 wrote:
    mel5051 wrote:
    There is a good chance that his CPL has the exemption box checked for PFZ's. Many of the laid off deputies are eligible for call back. Most have been accepted into the Reserve program.
    That's what I wondered.I may bring it up in the future to him and see.

    We are on school property, but it's for a baseball league. So only using the grounds. I'm still not 100% sure of the laws regarding school property. I currently have a CPL and know that I can OC there. But what happens as soon as I get in my car. Since I'm not dropping off or picking up my child from school, wouldn't I be considered CC on the property at that point?
    Per 28.425o

    (3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).

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    mel5051 wrote:
    There is a good chance that his CPL has the exemption box checked for PFZ's.* Many of the laid off deputies are eligible for call back.* Most have been accepted into the Reserve program.
    Checkbox or not, he still can't carry if he's not a qualified individual or a qualified retired individual.

    The Checkbox has no legal standing whatsoever.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    mel5051 wrote:
    There is a good chance that his CPL has the exemption box checked for PFZ's. Many of the laid off deputies are eligible for call back. Most have been accepted into the Reserve program.
    Checkbox or not, he still can't carry if he's not a qualified individual or a qualified retired individual.

    The Checkbox has no legal standing whatsoever.
    Agree on both parts. There is no Michigan statute that requires the box checked for those who are already exempt.

    ETA: If for some reason he's a Reserve Deputy (Local) in Michigan, it's legal for him to CC both on and off duty.

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    It's my understanding the LEO's only have off duty concealed carry/pfz exemption privlidges in their own juristiction, no? Unless of course they also have a cpl. Not all officers have a cpl. I'm sure proffesional courtesy between PD's is shown, but it is still not legal.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    scot623 wrote:
    It's my understanding the LEO's only have off duty concealed carry/pfz exemption privlidges in their own juristiction, no? Unless of course they also have a cpl. Not all officers have a cpl. I'm sure proffesional courtesy between PD's is shown, but it is still not legal.
    There is no such thing as jurisdiction in MI for MCOLES Certified officers. They retain all powers anywhere in the state that MCOLES certified officers have powers.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    scot623 wrote:
    It's my understanding the LEO's only have off duty concealed carry/pfz exemption privlidges in their own juristiction, no? Unless of course they also have a cpl. Not all officers have a cpl. I'm sure proffesional courtesy between PD's is shown, but it is still not legal.
    There is no such thing as jurisdiction in MI for MCOLES Certified officers. They retain all powers anywhere in the state that MCOLES certified officers have powers.
    To add to that, LEOSA extends certain privileges to all LEOs nationwide.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enf...ers_Safety_Act

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    Good to know. That's why I love this site. Great place to learn. Thanks guys.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    scot623 wrote:
    It's my understanding the LEO's only have off duty concealed carry/pfz exemption privlidges in their own juristiction, no? Unless of course they also have a cpl. Not all officers have a cpl. I'm sure proffesional courtesy between PD's is shown, but it is still not legal.
    There is no such thing as jurisdiction in MI for MCOLES Certified officers. They retain all powers anywhere in the state that MCOLES certified officers have powers.
    To add to that, LEOSA extends certain privileges to all LEOs nationwide.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enf...ers_Safety_Act
    A certified peace officer receives some exemptions under the law to include more liberal concealed carry. However, his arrest authority is limited to the jurisdiction he is employed. A Detroit City Police Officer can only arrest for a misdemeanor within the city limits of Detroit. Other states provide state wide authority for all certified officers regardless of geographically employment, Michigan is not like that.

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