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Thread: Possible citizen's arrest backfired

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    A cautionary tale perhaps. No real details provided yet.

    http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/east_kin.../91086294.html

    "MARYSVILLE — A Redmond man who attempted a citizen's arrest in Marysville on April 15 has found himself facing a $25,000 bail..."


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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    That man must really love the movie industry!


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    A text book example of someone acting outside the realm of self defense and trying to act in a law enforcement area of responsibility, otherwise known as wannabe's

    The man told responding officers that he was pointing the gun at another man, whom he claimed had stolen movies from Hollywood Video across the street. The gunman also told officers that he pulled out the gun in self-defense, claiming that he thought he was going to get run over by the car.
    He appears to have acted under the guise of stolen movies and then escalated the incident by drawing his weapon, what an idiot.

    A perfect example of the concept we bear the responsibility of knowing the laws and tactics when we choose to exercise our rights to bear arms.

    Wondering if he visits any gun forums?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    So very many parts of this story seemed like a BAD idea. I mean really, over a few rental dvd's? Write down the license plate # and call the cops. *sigh* why do people like this have to own firearms?

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    Regular Member Mech's Avatar
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    Doesn't seem like the gunman was in any immediate danger (ie. no one pointed a gun at him or made physical threats against him), it wasn't an armed robbery, and sure as heck didn't seem right for him to pull his gun for something stolen from across the street....

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    Mech wrote:
    Doesn't seem like the gunman was in any immediate danger (ie. no one pointed a gun at him or made physical threats against him), it wasn't an armed robbery, and sure as heck didn't seem right for him to pull his gun for something stolen from across the street....
    But it's what the police do... Don't you watch Cops?

    He probably pulled his gun in the name of Citizen Safety!

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    Norman wrote:
    *sigh* why do people like this have to own firearms?

    Because the 2nd amendment affords them the choice to be able to freely decide to own and carry.

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    If I recall correctly you cant make a citizens arrest for a violation of WA. state law unless you witness a felony.

    if that is the case then this guy could be charged with false imprisonment also.

    I think the theft would have to be valued at $250 or more to be a felony.


    Edit: The felony amount for theft is $750. Thank you for the correction Onlurker
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Rhetorical question lurker. Like: Why do drunks have to drive? It gives the rest of us drunks a bad name.Just because this guy has a right to be stupid, doesn't mean he has to exercise it. I hope he spends some time in jail and has to pay for some therapy for the woman he drew down on.

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    ^^Understood, I was just answering a rhetorical with another :P


    You have to exceed $750 in value of the goods stolen.

    3rd degree -> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.050

    2nd degree -> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.040 (class C felony territory)

    1st degree -> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.030

    Edit:

    Theft of firearms and motor vehicles is also a felony (class B) in this state:

    Motor vehicles: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.065

    Firearms: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.300

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    Theft of a firearm is good to know. It makes sense. A stolen firearm could potentially be a large public safety hazard. Thanks Onlurker

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    You're welcome for the info. This is something that sits in the back of my mind all the time whenever I break out the camera gear. It's almost a necessity to know what I can and cannot exercise depending on how much of my gear I have with me.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    onlurker wrote:
    Norman wrote:
    *sigh* why do people like this have to own firearms?

    Because the 2nd amendment affords them the choice to be able to freely decide to own and carry.
    But it doesn't protect them from the consequences of their stupid actions.

    Unfortunately, Stupid is not a Felony in itself. If it were there would be no room in the jails.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    END_THE_FED wrote:
    If I recall correctly you cant make a citizens arrest for a violation of WA. state law unless you witness a felony.

    if that is the case then this guy could be charged with false imprisonment also.

    I think the theft would have to be valued at $250 or more to be a felony.


    Edit: The felony amount for theft is $750. Thank you for the correction Onlurker
    Ome of thr things I like about this board is how much I learn, mainly about laws. Then I get very confused and wonder what exactly did I just read. These types of things cause to wear out my google button in trying to figure it out. Here we have that one cannot make a citizen's arrest unless it is a felony.

    If we jump to this thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/42494.htmlI learned that a LEO cannot make an arrest for a misdomeaner unless he observes the person committing it. Now if I combine the two it sounds as if I commit a misdomeaner and a LEO does not witness it then I am off scott free. Now I don't think that is quite correct so would someone care to elaborate on it?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    PT111 wrote:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/42494.htmlI learned that a LEO cannot make an arrest for a misdomeaner unless he observes the person committing it. Now if I combine the two it sounds as if I commit a misdomeaner and a LEO does not witness it then I am off scott free. Now I don't think that is quite correct so would someone care to elaborate on it?
    If you commit any crime, and a LEO doesn't wittness you doing so it certainly does not mean you are free and clear. I merely means that he can not arrest you now. He CAN investigate, gather evidence and witness statements, present them to the Prosecutor and the Prosecutor can then file charges. He can, at that point, seek a warrant for your arrest. The actual process may vary somebut rest assured, if they can prove you did it they will eventually arrest you and charge you for it.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Is this guy serious? Drawing a gun over stolen DVDs? LOL

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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/42494.html I learned that a LEO cannot make an arrest for a misdomeaner unless he observes the person committing it. Now if I combine the two it sounds as if I commit a misdomeaner and a LEO does not witness it then I am off scott free. Now I don't think that is quite correct so would someone care to elaborate on it?
    There is a very broad range of exceptions for this. They the threat of harm, harm, various traffic offenses, indecent exposure, alcohol, vandalism, trespassing, and various others, including the most dangerous of all: cannabis.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.31.100

    And the alternative to arrest is a summons, which means they'll mail the charges and book you then. It doesn't mean you get off, it means that you don't get taken in immediately.
    I think it used to be, a long time ago, they can't arrest you without a warrant on any misdemeanor, but that was when there wasn't many misdemeanors either. As we've moved more and more toward legislative totalitarianism ("law and order") and increased government interference in everyday lives, the idea of arresting people for lesser things became more acceptable. In US v. John Bad Elk in 1900, a guy killed a cop (Bad Elk was also a cop) while resisting arrest for a misdemeanor without warrant, and his death sentence was overturned and he was released on the basis of self-defense.

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    I think that my problem comes from what I consider arrest and how many other people use the term.

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/arrest
    A seizure or forcible restraint; an exercise of the power to deprive a person of his or her liberty; the taking or keeping of a person in custody by legal authority, especially, in response to a criminal charge.

    Just for example my wife come in one day and tells me that she just saw that weird fellow that keeps walking through our neighborhood riding my daughter's bicycle that we noticed missing a few days ago down the street. It certainly appears that he is the one that has stolen the bicycle. The value of the bicyle would make it a misdomeanor rather than a felony.

    I walk outside and see the fellow now walking past my neighbor's house and at the same time see a LEO driving by. I flag the LEO down, tell him what I believe happened and point out the weird guy.

    Can the LEO arrest, take into custody even stop and question the weird guy? Since I did not see with the bicycle but my wife did see him with it can she arrest him? Do we just have to go down to the police station, fill out a report, wait for a judge to issue a warrant, and hope the weird guy hasn't left town or sold the bicycle before then.

    How about instead of stealing a bicycle the weird guy was walking around with his privates hanging out and my wife saw it.

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    In the scenario you described I would think that the LEO you flag down would not be able to make an arrest for the theft but could maybe arrest him with "possession of stolen property" he did not witness the theft but he witnessed this guy walking around with a stolen bike.

    as far as the man walking around nude it kinda depends on what else he is doing.
    Nudity in and of itself does not qualify as indecent exposure. So if he is just walking around its not a crime but if he does a "lewd act" then it becomes a crime. As an example if he grabs himself or says something like "hey baby i got something for you"
    and points down there then its a crime.

    please note I have not reviewed the relevant RCWs recently so im not positive.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    IMO ....

    The guy from Redmond has a John Wayne / Clint Eastwood complex !

    There was no threat to his life or personal property. I would of wrote down a description of the car and people and walked that info into the video store, then let them handle it and then I would of drove home to Redmond.

    To me some of this crap is like fighting a forest fire ... ... if the fire is too close and it's going to burn you then "Protect yourself" otherwise, at times, it's best to let the fire burn its self out.

    Know what I mean ?



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    Can the LEO arrest, take into custody even stop and question the weird guy? Since I did not see with the bicycle but my wife did see him with it can she arrest him? Do we just have to go down to the police station, fill out a report, wait for a judge to issue a warrant, and hope the weird guy hasn't left town or sold the bicycle before then.
    Absolutely. Theft is one of the crimes they can arrest without warrant even without witnessing.

    Read this.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.31.100

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