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Thread: OC not allowed on Makah Rez

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    Just got off the phone with Makah Police Chief Sam White. I will be headed to Neah Bay on Thursday and wanted to know if I can CC or OC. He told me that as long as I have a CPL I can CC on the rez. He said that they follow state law on CC. When I asked him if I can OC, there was a slight pause and the he said "negative" even though state law allows it there is no OC on the Makah Rez. I guess I will just CC over there but at least I got an answer (after calling 3 times).



    kenzmad

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    What's Makah Rez?

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    MakahIndian Reservation in Neah Bay WA. Out on the tip of the Olympic Penninsula.



    kenzmad

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    it's my understanding that they must follow state law in that regard. are they allowed to have separate laws for firearms?

    Bobby

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Indian Reservations in some regards are considered to be separate entities with their own laws. Indian reservations are allowed their own laws in regards to firearms. Here in AZ for example -- don't go off the main federal roads OCing in Navajo land-- you will lose your gun and you will never see it again. Don't think I need to give a history lesson. CC is usually ok, but OC on most indian land is a big NONO.

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    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    It's my understanding that, at least in Washington, that the only laws beyond that of the states laws that they can enforce is on thier own tribal members.

    Per another thread, it was stated that they can cite you until they run out of paper, but when it goes to court it will be tossed out.

    If this is wrong, I stand corrected.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    It's too bad they don't have a copy of their tribal laws on their website. I'll bet the open carry prohibition is not in their actual laws.

    Tribal laws, to the non-indian, are basically nothing more than company policies. A tribal firearms ban, in Washington, is nothing more than a no firearms sign on any other private property.
    well I won't push the issue as I do not want to be asked to leave. this is an annual lingcod trip that we really look forward to every year. once the boat leaves the dock, OC all day. CC when arriving back to port.



    kenzmad

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    Sparky508 wrote:
    It's my understanding that, at least in Washington, that the only laws beyond that of the states laws that they can enforce is on thier own tribal members.

    Per another thread, it was stated that they can cite you until they run out of paper, but when it goes to court it will be tossed out.

    If this is wrong, I stand corrected.
    This is correct except that tribal laws, unless they are specifically allowed by congress, only apply to non-indians across the US. It is covered under Oliphant V Suquamish Indian Tribe.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    It's too bad they don't have a copy of their tribal laws on their website. I'll bet the open carry prohibition is not in their actual laws.

    Tribal laws, to the non-indian, are basically nothing more than company policies. A tribal firearms ban, in Washington, is nothing more than a no firearms sign on any other private property.
    Handgunlaw.us has a link to tribal laws at the National Indian Law Library. Here is the Makah Law and Order Code

    At quick glance, I don't see anything specific about open carry.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


    Talk to your cats about catnip - before it's too late.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Look up the term PL280 Indian in google.

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    seems that to me after reading the Makah laws that he had no legal reason to tell me that I can't OC. as long as I am not brandishing or threatening anyone then I should be ok. I do not like the part that says I cannot use my firearm "or uses a weapon in a fight or quarrel". This would seem to me that if someone attacked me and I used my firearm to defend myself, I would be in deep doo doo. I would like to OC and may still do it but I do not want to ruin a great fishing trip to try to test his theory. I will call him again tomorrow and see if I can get a reason why I can't OC or get a clarification on the Makah laws.



    kenzmad

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The Makah are great people, and their LEO the last inter-reaction I had with them were very reasonable. They can trespass you, and you don't necessarily have to break any "laws".

    They are also a "dry" reservation.

    We were camping surfing their beautiful beach with a huge group of freinds. There is a list of items you are supposed to have by tribal law to do so, that I wasn't aware of including a permit to be there. The tribal LEO who came out at night went out of his way to help me rationalize and come up with qualifications for compliance with his list, and wished us a good weekend and labled us an approved site.

    My suggestion is to get to know the LEO personally and some others who are important to the tribe, you will find a little familiarity and respect go a long way on tribal lands.

    Or treat it like you would the Mall, just conceal while there.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    I too spend lots of time up on the Makah Reservation. I went so far as to write the Tribal Judge (Stanley B. Meyers Jr) and ask about carrying on the Reservation. I was told by him to contact Chief White.
    I spoke to Chief White and was told if he had a copy of my CPL & Drivers license, I would be ok to carry. This was to insure if there was an issue he had my info on hand and knew I was good to go.

    However this may have all changed since I wrote to them back in April 2008.

    Jarhead and I were on the reservation last month for a trip out to Cape Flatterly & Hobuck Beachand. Coming back into town we stopped off and got coffee & educated a few folks on OC & WA gun laws, we did not have any issues.

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    Again keeping in mind that you can't be in "deep doo doo". All they can do is ask you to leave. They can't charge you with anything.

    If they were to ask you to leave, I would probably write a letter to the judge citing the tribal law and asking why you were asked to leave when you were not violating that law.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Please keep in mind that you are a guest on the land they belong to. Have the same respect you would in someone's home.

    Edit for spelling

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    kingfish wrote:
    Please keep in mind that you are a guest on the land they belong to. Have the same respect you would in someone's home.

    Edit for spelling
    As soon as they show the same when they are off "their land".
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    heresolong wrote:
    Again keeping in mind that you can't be in "deep doo doo". All they can do is ask you to leave. They can't charge you with anything.

    If they were to ask you to leave, I would probably write a letter to the judge citing the tribal law and asking why you were asked to leave when you were not violating that law.
    maybe I am wrong here but if something were to happen and I had to use deadly force, I have a hard time believing that the tribal police would just ask me to leave the reservation. I understand that the local police of our land can and will charge if deemed proper but are you saying that the tribe has absolutely no jurisdiction on non tribal members on "their" land? how would this work anyway, who would do the investigation? I sure wouldn't want the tribal police investigating and the forwarding their findings to our authorities. do our police have the legal right to investigate and interview witnesses that are probably going to be natives? just wondering.



    kenzmad

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    You really should read Oliphant v. Suquamish.

    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...downfile;id=34
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    As far as I know, they are a political subdivision of the US, not the state, but I could be wrong about that.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    kenzmad wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    Again keeping in mind that you can't be in "deep doo doo". All they can do is ask you to leave. They can't charge you with anything.

    If they were to ask you to leave, I would probably write a letter to the judge citing the tribal law and asking why you were asked to leave when you were not violating that law.
    maybe I am wrong here but if something were to happen and I had to use deadly force, I have a hard time believing that the tribal police would just ask me to leave the reservation. I understand that the local police of our land can and will charge if deemed proper but are you saying that the tribe has absolutely no jurisdiction on non tribal members on "their" land? how would this work anyway, who would do the investigation? I sure wouldn't want the tribal police investigating and the forwarding their findings to our authorities. do our police have the legal right to investigate and interview witnesses that are probably going to be natives? just wondering.



    kenzmad
    The tribal police cannot enforce TRIBAL LAWS on non-indians. Tribal police can enforce WA state law on non-indians, including arrest and citation powers, both on and off the reservation, however. Illegal actions according to WA state law are still illegal on or off the reservation.

    Tribal police must turn arrested persons and citations over to non-indian LEO's/courts.
    Exactly. So open carry should result in, at worst, a request to leave. Anything illegal under Washington state law could result in a citation or arrest and referral to the WA state courts.

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