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Thread: Apparently the Deputy Sheriff's in Autauga County think OC is illegal!!

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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    A little back story before I get to the good part.



    I live on 6 acres of property well outside the Prattville city limits. I've target shot on this property for the past six months with very few problems. I had one neighbor claim that bullets were 'whistling' over his head while he was outside of his shop that is adjacent to my property. *See pic for reference* We changed the direction we shot in and haven't heard anything since. Fast forward to yesterday. A friend and I decide we're going to do a little target shooting before we head to Montgomery for the Starbuck's OC. He fires off a couple magazines of .45 and I fire the Taurus PT709 that I picked up recently. During this session a couple of his .45 rounds ricochet and hit the guy's shed (unbeknownst to us) with one landing in the floor of it.

    He apparently called the sheriff today once he found those rounds and had them come out to take a look. I get a call at work from my roommate telling me that they'd been to the house looking for me and explained what happened. No big problem, I'll just build a backstop and let the guy know that I'm still going to target shoot on my property.

    While he was at the house either my roomie or my girlfriend asked them about the legality of open carry. Here's where it gets fun. He tells them that open carry in Alabama is illegal and that I can have my permit taken away and be put in jail for it! I know the deputy that came out and know that he also sits at a local gas station around the time I'm heading home from work. I've already printed out a copy of the tri-fold and plan on educating this deputy. I'm also going to be writing a letter to the sheriff letting him know that his deputies are spreading false information regarding the open carrying of firearms and that they need to be retrained.



    I'm so mad right now it isn't funny. Part of it is because of my neighbor and the other part is for the ignorance of the same people who are supposed to uphold and follow the law.

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    Send him a copy of DT Marshall's letter. There's a copy posted in the thread asking for letters.

    Unless you hear from the Autauga sheriff re OC, I'd say we don't do Prattville Starbucks next weekend and pick a shop in Montgomery.

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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    I think that would be wise. I'm currently gathering everything I need in order to make sure this issue is resolved.

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    Regular Member Monkeytown's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    Send him a copy of DT Marshall's letter. There's a copy posted in the thread asking for letters.

    Unless you hear from the Autauga sheriff re OC, I'd say we don't do Prattville Starbucks next weekend and pick a shop in Montgomery.
    wise you are my friend!!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The OP need to do some serious work on his range safety and some public relations work with his neighbor.

    Two "incidents" does not make for good neighbor relations.

    Just saying......

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    The OP need to do some serious work on his range safety and some public relations work with his neighbor.

    Two "incidents" does not make for good neighbor relations.

    Just saying......

    Yata hey


    The first incident he asked us to shoot in a safe direction. We did so and had no more problems, until now. This time he calls the sheriff without even letting us know that we had hit anything. Below is our lane of fire and his shed.



    Edit: I'd really like to know how a round can ricochet that far and still penetrate. That's almost 250ft at a very sharp angle.

    Edit: Might even be further. Either way I'm still mystified.







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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    DJDD wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    The OP need to do some serious work on his range safety and some public relations work with his neighbor.

    Two "incidents" does not make for good neighbor relations.

    Just saying......

    Yata hey
    The first incident he asked us to shoot in a safe direction. We did so and had no more problems, until now. This time he calls the sheriff without even letting us know that we had hit anything. Below is our lane of fire and his shed.



    Edit: I'd really like to know how a round can ricochet that far and still penetrate. That's almost 250ft at a very sharp angle.

    Edit: Might even be further. Either way I'm still mystified.
    I'm really not trying to pick a bone with you, but there are some things that don't sit comfortably.

    He had to ask you to shoot in a safe direction and then you did or thought you did?

    Remember the rule about always know your backstop? That comes before you shoot.
    And yes a ricochet can travel that far with lethal effect.

    IMO the land as I view it is very problematic for use as a range, especially w/o a well constructed berm in a safe direction - that is where I think the biggest problem lies.

    Range safety and where your rounds go is your responsibility.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    DJDD wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    The OP need to do some serious work on his range safety and some public relations work with his neighbor.

    Two "incidents" does not make for good neighbor relations.

    Just saying......

    Yata hey
    The first incident he asked us to shoot in a safe direction. We did so and had no more problems, until now. This time he calls the sheriff without even letting us know that we had hit anything. Below is our lane of fire and his shed.



    Edit: I'd really like to know how a round can ricochet that far and still penetrate. That's almost 250ft at a very sharp angle.

    Edit: Might even be further. Either way I'm still mystified.
    I'm really not trying to pick a bone with you, but there are some things that don't sit comfortably.

    He had to ask you to shoot in a safe direction and then you did or thought you did?

    Remember the rule about always know your backstop? That comes before you shoot.
    And yes a ricochet can travel that far with lethal effect.

    IMO the land as I view it is very problematic for use as a range, especially w/o a well constructed berm in a safe direction - that is where I think the biggest problem lies.

    Range safety and where your rounds go is your responsibility.

    Yata hey
    He had to ask the first time because we had no idea the shed was there. The way the land and trees aresituated you can't see the shed unless you go into that very far corner. We saw trees, brush, open space, and more trees. Once I saw where the shed was I set up in a different direction which, from my viewpoint, was in a safe direction. Now that I know the rounds have ricocheted I will be constructing a berm.

    Either way, I'm not too concerned with my neighbor. I'll build a berm and be done with it. Had he called me and let me know I would have apologized and told him that there would be no more shooting until I had constructed a backstop and then arranged a time to meet with him so we could tell if the measures I had put in place were adequate.

    My main problem with the whole situation is the misinformation that the deputy put out there. I'm not brushing the situation off with my neighbor, but better communication could have saved both of us some trouble.

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    DJDD wrote:
    A little back story before I get to the good part.

    I live on 6 acres of property well outside the Prattville city limits. I've target shot on this property for the past six months with very few problems. I had one neighbor claim that bullets were 'whistling' over his head while he was outside of his shop that is adjacent to my property. *See pic for reference* We changed the direction we shot in and haven't heard anything since. Fast forward to yesterday. A friend and I decide we're going to do a little target shooting before we head to Montgomery for the Starbuck's OC. He fires off a couple magazines of .45 and I fire the Taurus PT709 that I picked up recently. During this session a couple of his .45 rounds ricochet and hit the guy's shed (unbeknownst to us) with one landing in the floor of it.

    He apparently called the sheriff today once he found those rounds and had them come out to take a look. I get a call at work from my roommate telling me that they'd been to the house looking for me and explained what happened. No big problem, I'll just build a backstop and let the guy know that I'm still going to target shoot on my property.

    .....
    This sounds like irresponsible and dangerous behavior on your part.





    Difference between trauma and "no big problem": Trauma is when it happens to me...

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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    DJDD wrote:
    A little back story before I get to the good part.

    I live on 6 acres of property well outside the Prattville city limits. I've target shot on this property for the past six months with very few problems. I had one neighbor claim that bullets were 'whistling' over his head while he was outside of his shop that is adjacent to my property. *See pic for reference* We changed the direction we shot in and haven't heard anything since. Fast forward to yesterday. A friend and I decide we're going to do a little target shooting before we head to Montgomery for the Starbuck's OC. He fires off a couple magazines of .45 and I fire the Taurus PT709 that I picked up recently. During this session a couple of his .45 rounds ricochet and hit the guy's shed (unbeknownst to us) with one landing in the floor of it.

    He apparently called the sheriff today once he found those rounds and had them come out to take a look. I get a call at work from my roommate telling me that they'd been to the house looking for me and explained what happened. No big problem, I'll just build a backstop and let the guy know that I'm still going to target shoot on my property.

    .....
    This sounds like irresponsible and dangerous behavior on your part.





    Difference between trauma and "no big problem": Trauma is when it happens to me...
    Howso? We had no idea his shed was even back there before we started using that area as a target area. The trees are thick enough even in the winter time that you could not see it unless you climbed through bushes and trees to get to a certain corner. It is no big problem, I will build a berm/backstop, verify nothing can get over to his place, and continue using MY property as I see fit. Also, just a bit of clarification, the firing lane you see on the map is the one we switched to after the first incident. There is nothing but field behind it for a good 50 acres, its the safest firing lane I could see on that whole property. I'm not trying to be an ass, but two bullets out of the 500 or so we've shot using that exact same firing lane is just a very bad coincidence. I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen again but in order for me to make sure that everything is safe I need people to communicate with me. Calling the cops after I've done whatwas requested is unnecessary. What's next, him telling me I can't shoot any gun bigger than a .22?

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    I fullyrealize how you feel about using your property in your own way.

    Now stop and think--really think--about how you would feel about being arrested for negligent homicide after a fatal ricochet.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    DJDD - I think you're beating the wrong horse when you seek to defend errant rounds.

    You, the shooter, are responsible for knowing where every round goes. Even if you are not the actual shooter, but permit same on your property you incur potential liability.

    There is NO excuse possible - not trees, not bushes, not anything. If you build a berm that satisfies everybody and somehow a round still injures another or does property damage, who do you think is going to be held accountable? Hate to say it, but you are starting to look foolish.

    Think it is your property all you want - there are likely laws, ordinances, statutes that say what you can do and how.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    DJDD - I think you're beating the wrong horse when you seek to defend errant rounds.

    You, the shooter, are responsible for knowing where every round goes. Even if you are not the actual shooter, but permit same on your property you incur potential liability.

    There is NO excuse possible - not trees, not bushes, not anything. If you build a berm that satisfies everybody and somehow a round still injures another or does property damage, who do you think is going to be held accountable? Hate to say it, but you are starting to look foolish.

    Think it is your property all you want - there are likely laws, ordinances, statutes that say what you can do and how.

    Yata hey
    How am I defending errant rounds? I stated above that I was unaware that they had ricocheted AFTER CHANGING THE FIRING LANE TO A MUCH SAFER ONE. Should I set up a high speed camera system and motion detector that tracks all bullets? How about I sell all of my guns and just don't shoot anymore? There we go, that solves the problem.

    Here's a recap. I start using my property to target shoot. Direction is what appears to be a safe one away from any known houses. Find out that a frequently used shed is in the firing lane, hidden behind trees and bushes. Immediately change to a safer shooting lane where it is obvious that nothing can be hit within hundreds of feet. Rounds ricochet and sheriff is called. I'm not notified that anything is wrong until the sheriff shows up.

    I will be building a berm and cleaing some trees to make sure this doesn't happen again. What more can I do? I can't shoot in any other direction because I know for a fact that there are houses that could be hit. The fact that rounds ricocheted and hit his shed is something that neither of us could forsee. I'm going to do what it takes to fix the problem but I'm not going to bow to the wishes of someone else to make them happy.

    Yes, something could happen. The planets could align, the gravitational pull of the Earth could shift and a ricochet happen to hit his shed or even worse a person. I could also walk out to my truck after work and get hit by a car, or maybe lightning could strike me on a sunny day. I might even get abducted by aliens. Besides moving somewhere else, (if you want to buy me 100 acres I'll gladly give you my paypal for the money) I'm going to take the necessary precations to prevent this from happening TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.



    Now please, can we let this part of the subject die? I posted this up to show the fact that misinformation is being given out, not to start a **** throwing contest over something that neither parties were aware of.

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    Sorry my friend. This doesn't look good. You said you couldnt see the shed from the position you are in. Just because you can't see the shed, didn't make it disappear.

    You should always know where your rounds are going. You should know your target and beyond your target.

    Not knowing the shed was there was irresponsible on your part. If you can't be sure someone or something isn't behind your target, don't shoot. You also need to build whatever you intended on building before you shoot out there again.

    You may have "50 acres" of land for shooting, but bullets can travel miles! Do you really know what's on the other side on your property when you shoot?

    Suggestion: Indoor shooting range ~ you need to be a regular visitor.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    DJDD wrote:
    Good luck - you're going to need it.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    "Direction is what appears to be a safe one away from any known houses."

    That is your problem right there. "Appears to be safe" just does not cut it when it comes to firearms. You need to know for certain what lies beyond your target but within the dangerous range of your weapons, which could easily be 3 miles or better. Therefore, using a reliable backstop (berm, etc.) BEFORE you start shooting is the only way to be truly safe in 99.9% of circumstances.

    Just my humble opinion. I would sure hate to read a headline that goes like "known open-carry advocate involved in fatal accidental shooting."
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    DJDD wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    DJDD wrote:
    A little back story before I get to the good part.

    I live on 6 acres of property well outside the Prattville city limits. I've target shot on this property for the past six months with very few problems. I had one neighbor claim that bullets were 'whistling' over his head while he was outside of his shop that is adjacent to my property. *See pic for reference* We changed the direction we shot in and haven't heard anything since. Fast forward to yesterday. A friend and I decide we're going to do a little target shooting before we head to Montgomery for the Starbuck's OC. He fires off a couple magazines of .45 and I fire the Taurus PT709 that I picked up recently. During this session a couple of his .45 rounds ricochet and hit the guy's shed (unbeknownst to us) with one landing in the floor of it.

    He apparently called the sheriff today once he found those rounds and had them come out to take a look. I get a call at work from my roommate telling me that they'd been to the house looking for me and explained what happened. No big problem, I'll just build a backstop and let the guy know that I'm still going to target shoot on my property.

    .....
    This sounds like irresponsible and dangerous behavior on your part.





    Difference between trauma and "no big problem": Trauma is when it happens to me...
    Howso? We had no idea his shed was even back there before we started using that area as a target area. The trees are thick enough even in the winter time that you could not see it unless you climbed through bushes and trees to get to a certain corner. It is no big problem, I will build a berm/backstop, verify nothing can get over to his place, and continue using MY property as I see fit. Also, just a bit of clarification, the firing lane you see on the map is the one we switched to after the first incident. There is nothing but field behind it for a good 50 acres, its the safest firing lane I could see on that whole property. I'm not trying to be an ass, but two bullets out of the 500 or so we've shot using that exact same firing lane is just a very bad coincidence. I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen again but in order for me to make sure that everything is safe I need people to communicate with me. Calling the cops after I've done whatwas requested is unnecessary. What's next, him telling me I can't shoot any gun bigger than a .22?


    DJDD wrote:
    How am I defending errant rounds? I stated above that I was unaware that they had ricocheted AFTER CHANGING THE FIRING LANE TO A MUCH SAFER ONE. Should I set up a high speed camera system and motion detector that tracks all bullets? How about I sell all of my guns and just don't shoot anymore? There we go, that solves the problem.

    Here's a recap. I start using my property to target shoot. Direction is what appears to be a safe one away from any known houses. Find out that a frequently used shed is in the firing lane, hidden behind trees and bushes. Immediately change to a safer shooting lane where it is obvious that nothing can be hit within hundreds of feet. Rounds ricochet and sheriff is called. I'm not notified that anything is wrong until the sheriff shows up.

    I will be building a berm and cleaing some trees to make sure this doesn't happen again. What more can I do? I can't shoot in any other direction because I know for a fact that there are houses that could be hit. The fact that rounds ricocheted and hit his shed is something that neither of us could forsee. I'm going to do what it takes to fix the problem but I'm not going to bow to the wishes of someone else to make them happy.

    Yes, something could happen. The planets could align, the gravitational pull of the Earth could shift and a ricochet happen to hit his shed or even worse a person. I could also walk out to my truck after work and get hit by a car, or maybe lightning could strike me on a sunny day. I might even get abducted by aliens. Besides moving somewhere else, (if you want to buy me 100 acres I'll gladly give you my paypal for the money) I'm going to take the necessary precations to prevent this from happening TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.



    Now please, can we let this part of the subject die? I posted this up to show the fact that misinformation is being given out, not to start a @#$% throwing contest over something that neither parties were aware of.
    Just as there is a well-known term Ugly American (a loud, opinionatedarrogant simplist, who is ignorant of anything outside of his very narrownational/cultural focus), I submit there is a similar behavioral and thinking model in the gun owner community.

    I'd call it the Ugly Gun Guy. Defined as a loud, boorish, selfish, unsafe, unadaptable simplist who primarily, and sometimes exclusively, thinks about bang, bang, bang!

    The catch cry of the Ugly Gun Guy is:

    What's the big deal? I didn't hit anything. No problem!

    The UGG is dangerous. Very dangerous. Unfortunately, he is mostly dangerous to those known by the term Responsible Gun Guy.

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    DJDD wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    DJDD wrote:
    A little back story before I get to the good part.

    I live on 6 acres of property well outside the Prattville city limits. I've target shot on this property for the past six months with very few problems. I had one neighbor claim that bullets were 'whistling' over his head while he was outside of his shop that is adjacent to my property. *See pic for reference* We changed the direction we shot in and haven't heard anything since. Fast forward to yesterday. A friend and I decide we're going to do a little target shooting before we head to Montgomery for the Starbuck's OC. He fires off a couple magazines of .45 and I fire the Taurus PT709 that I picked up recently. During this session a couple of his .45 rounds ricochet and hit the guy's shed (unbeknownst to us) with one landing in the floor of it.

    He apparently called the sheriff today once he found those rounds and had them come out to take a look. I get a call at work from my roommate telling me that they'd been to the house looking for me and explained what happened. No big problem, I'll just build a backstop and let the guy know that I'm still going to target shoot on my property.

    .....
    This sounds like irresponsible and dangerous behavior on your part.





    Difference between trauma and "no big problem": Trauma is when it happens to me...
    Howso? We had no idea his shed was even back there before we started using that area as a target area. The trees are thick enough even in the winter time that you could not see it unless you climbed through bushes and trees to get to a certain corner. It is no big problem, I will build a berm/backstop, verify nothing can get over to his place, and continue using MY property as I see fit. Also, just a bit of clarification, the firing lane you see on the map is the one we switched to after the first incident. There is nothing but field behind it for a good 50 acres, its the safest firing lane I could see on that whole property. I'm not trying to be an ass, but two bullets out of the 500 or so we've shot using that exact same firing lane is just a very bad coincidence. I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen again but in order for me to make sure that everything is safe I need people to communicate with me. Calling the cops after I've done whatwas requested is unnecessary. What's next, him telling me I can't shoot any gun bigger than a .22?
    Well it sounds as if you are going to continue shooting on your property and to h*** with the neighbor. You may be shooting on your property but the rounds are not staying on your property. I have to say that I don't blame your neighbor for calling the police, after all he had talked to you and still his shed was hit. If I were him, I wouldn't want to be concerned that I, or my family, was going to be hit by a stray round. Sorry, but I would have called the police when it happened the second time also!! Your "two bullets out of the 500 or so we shot" should be a concern to you as well. If you hit your neighbor or one of his family members or even his pet, he may well get "your property" in the civil case that follows.

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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    Can we just cut the bull s h i t here? I've stated what I'm going to do. All you can continue to do is point out what should have/could have/would have happened. What's happened has happened. Do you want me to go back in time and change stuff? If you've got that capability I'll gladly sell you some waterfront property in Arizona.

    I operated in what I thought was the safest manner. Found out it wasn't so no more shooting there until it is. You guys happy or do I need to go kiss the guy's ass as well?

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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    SFCRetired wrote:
    DJDD wrote:
    Can we just cut the bull s h i t here? I've stated what I'm going to do. All you can continue to do is point out what should have/could have/would have happened. What's happened has happened. Do you want me to go back in time and change stuff? If you've got that capability I'll gladly sell you some waterfront property in Arizona.

    I operated in what I thought was the safest manner. Found out it wasn't so no more shooting there until it is. You guys happy or do I need to go kiss the guy's ass as well?
    Go kiss his a$$, but let me know first so that I can film it. We'd make a fortune selling it.:celebrate

    The first incident was negligent, but then you took steps to, you thought, rectify the situation. When that proved to not be sufficient, you are now taking other steps. Good for you.

    Many long years ago, I had a little J.C.Higgins .22 single shot rifle. My uncles, rest their souls, impressed firearm safetyon the seat of my britches. We still had neighbors that claimed I shot their house, their car, their dog, their cat, and their kid. Never mind that they could not show Dad or myself a holein any of the above.

    The moral of that little story is be very careful of what you do from now on. You are on the cops' radar and you may have one of those neighbors who just wants to cause trouble for a gun owner.
    Sounds good to me, I can just build my own indoor shooting range with the money.



    I'll be stopping by his place tomorrow morning to apologize and look at the damage. As for the cops, I'm not too worried about them. I'm friends with a couple Stateys and other Deputies. I talked to one of each last night and they both informed me that they knew OC is legal. The Statey joked that he could charge me for disorderly conduct if he saw me. Apparently the deputy who came out to the house is pretty much against anyone other than LEO having weapons. If you're ever in Autauga county and get pulled over by Deputy John T. Pigford, please pass along a tri-fold.

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    Oh, c'mon! That can't possibly really be his name!

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    Regular Member DJDD's Avatar
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    Yes it is and I have verified it. Deputy John T. Pigford.

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    Ya know, it's too bad it's Tuesday. We'd've had a lot to talk about if your story, my story, and the other two on AOC had happened before Starbucks Sunday.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    Mar 2010
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    SFCRetired wrote:
    DJDD wrote:
    Can we just cut the bull s h i t here? I've stated what I'm going to do. All you can continue to do is point out what should have/could have/would have happened. What's happened has happened. Do you want me to go back in time and change stuff? If you've got that capability I'll gladly sell you some waterfront property in Arizona.

    I operated in what I thought was the safest manner. Found out it wasn't so no more shooting there until it is. You guys happy or do I need to go kiss the guy's ass as well?
    Go kiss his a$$, but let me know first so that I can film it. We'd make a fortune selling it.:celebrate

    The first incident was negligent, but then you took steps to, you thought, rectify the situation. When that proved to not be sufficient, you are now taking other steps. Good for you.

    Many long years ago, I had a little J.C.Higgins .22 single shot rifle. My uncles, rest their souls, impressed firearm safetyon the seat of my britches. We still had neighbors that claimed I shot their house, their car, their dog, their cat, and their kid. Never mind that they could not show Dad or myself a holein any of the above.

    The moral of that little story is be very careful of what you do from now on. You are on the cops' radar and you may have one of those neighbors who just wants to cause trouble for a gun owner.
    I like your point of view. He made a mistake, attempted to fix it. It didn't work, he's trying again. Bravo! I've also had neighbors claim I shot their house but would not show proof, so I know where you're coming from. but...

    My concern is his attitude toward the situation. All he seems to care about is what the officer said, but everyone else reading his post completely misses that because of his actions. "Negligent and gun" don't live in the same house for many reasons.

    Also, he's upset because we keep talking about it. Unless you want every one's opinion, don't post it. Look at any post on this site and you'll see what happens. Also, the officer was just misinformed and all you needed to do was talk to him about it. Nothing happened so.... we are discussing your negligence.

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