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Thread: Another burglary interupted

  1. #1
    Regular Member Just Us's Avatar
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    South of Olympia another burglar had his night ruined.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...yndication=rss

    Maybe the more these nightly untaxed unwanted workers hear about co-workers not making it home in the morning, they might think about changing occupations. Then again they might just change their hours of duty.

    The story is still very vague.

  2. #2
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    Lewis County is larger than the state of Delaware... Response time for our sheriff's department isn't fast, as a result. But, all in all, justice is usually served...

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    Does the law not state .... your home is the one place you do not have to back down ? If "YES" then this should be an open / shut case .... AGREE ?

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    oneeyeross wrote:
    Lewis County is larger than the state of Delaware... Response time for our sheriff's department isn't fast, as a result. But, all in all, justice is usually served...
    When seconds count .....

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Bersa.380 wrote:
    Does the law not state .... your home is the one place you do not have to back down ? If "YES" then this should be an open / shut case .... AGREE ?
    We are a stand your ground state you never "have to back down".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    To be even clearer. We are a "stand your ground" state--you can stand your ground you have a lawful right to be whether it be in your kitchen or Rainier Ave. at two in the morning. The latter I would suggest you not hang out around at two in the morning though.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  7. #7
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    how are you supposed to be able to stand your ground when you can't even stand on your own ground and stand you ground?....how about that one....think about it....yep.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    You can be standing your ground while laying--it is still considered a form of standing your ground even though it is actually laying your ground but not to be misconstrude as laying groundwork because laying groundwork you might not be justified in standing your ground whether in a vertical or horizontal position unless after you lay the groundwork you stand your ground either figuratively or actually.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  9. #9
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    im understanding from a news report now that he was inside his house and opened the door to see some one that was outside his house, and shot the outside person.
    that doesnt sound like a traditional threat!
    stand your ground,, and the castle doctrin both seem to imply your right to confront a threat. i dont know if this guy was ever threatened.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    1245A Defender wrote:
    im understanding from a news report now that he was inside his house and opened the door to see some one that was outside his house, and shot the outside person.

    Was the person outside armed with anything? I hate the news--they never give specifics. We just get general statements.

    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    from the linked story,, a flashlight!
    he opened the garage door,,, to look outside,,, found a flashlight pointed at him,,, and shot the guy!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  12. #12
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    1245A Defender wrote:
    from the linked story,, a flashlight!
    he opened the garage door,,, to look outside,,, found a flashlight pointed at him,,, and shot the guy!!!
    Someone is on your property late at night. You open the door and a flashlight is on you--you are unable to determine the extent of the threat outside of the fact that there is an unidentified person who has not declared they are LEOon your property at night shining a flashlight at you, what do you do?

    We as firearm owners know that a flashlight comes in handy to blind the perp, light up the area and give yourself a clear shot. The first couple of things would come to my mind in the moment that I open the door and a light is shined in my face:

    -LEO? No, they would identify themselves

    -intent of shining a light into my face? To temporarily blind me?

    -Late at night,individual unknown, intentions are also unknown, expect the worse but hope for the best.

    -draw my sidearm
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  13. #13
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    how about keeping the doors between you and the threat!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  14. #14
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    That would be great but you are assuming the man new what was on the other side of the door. Investigating a noise does not void the homeowner of their right to shoot someone who appears to be a threat.

    The question is--based on the information at hand when you opened the door...house burglarized previously...late at night....flashlight in your face...threat or no threat? A reasonable person would respond as if it were a threat...or maybe I am unreasonable.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  15. #15
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    we may all be unreasonable,, but the only assumption i make in the scenario is that i would keep the door closed until i know more about what the threat is!
    maybe look out the window.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  16. #16
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I hope I would keep the door shut. Personally, I look through the peep-hole before I go out in the evening.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  17. #17
    Regular Member Just Us's Avatar
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    More has came out since I posted this morning. It didn't mention anything about a 2nd person then.

    Closing the door is only concealment and not cover.

  18. #18
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    1245A Defender wrote:
    we may all be unreasonable,, but the only assumption i make in the scenario is that i would keep the door closed until i know more about what the threat is!
    maybe look out the window.
    +1
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    1245A Defender wrote:
    we may all be unreasonable,, but the only assumption i make in the scenario is that i would keep the door closed until i know more about what the threat is!
    maybe look out the window.
    Since bullets don't pass through windows as easily as doors? If I were to look out the window I would be extremely discreet about it considerring I would hate to have the only thing between me and the perp being a thin pane of glass.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
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    It may not be a clean shoot. From another story about this:
    "The 59-year-old homeowner told police he took a life to protect his own. He says the home he's been renovating had been broken into at about 5 p.m.

    He planned on spending the night there in case the burglars came back.

    At about 9:45, a man and a woman pulled into his driveway in a pick-up. When the owner opened the garage he saw the two holding flashlights.

    The property owner opened fire, killing the 56-year-old man. The 31-year-old woman who had been in the pickup ran away, but later talked to deputies and was released."

    Even if cleared by the police he could be sued for wrongful death by the family of the deceased who could argue that he laid in wait with a gun and intended to shoot anyone who ventured onto his property.



  21. #21
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    It may not be a clean shoot. From another story about this:
    "The 59-year-old homeowner told police he took a life to protect his own. He says the home he's been renovating had been broken into at about 5 p.m.

    He planned on spending the night there in case the burglars came back.

    At about 9:45, a man and a woman pulled into his driveway in a pick-up. When the owner opened the garage he saw the two holding flashlights.

    The property owner opened fire, killing the 56-year-old man. The 31-year-old woman who had been in the pickup ran away, but later talked to deputies and was released."

    Even if cleared by the police he could be sued for wrongful death by the family of the deceased who could argue that he laid in wait with a gun and intended to shoot anyone who ventured onto his property.


    I sure hope that he didn't word it like that or he is in trouble. The woman was released? Sounds to me like two people were somewhere they weren't supposed to be. The man might be civily liable. If he thought they were a threat and shot in self-defense then I hope he is not found civily liable, even though the proof is much less in civil court.

    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  22. #22
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    Keeping in mind, I am playing devil's advocate here, but these two could have had a very innocent reason to be there. Walking onto someone's property is NOT much of a threat. These two could have been neighbors that heard about the break-in and were dropping by to check on the house. They could have been trying to peddle their religion. They could have been selling booster-club tickets.

    ...or they could have been looking for the best entry for breaking into the house. Pretty brave criminals to shine a flashlight in a face versus running back to their truck.

    Just some thought.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ghosthunter's Avatar
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    This brings up some thing that has bothered me for awhile.

    Lets say a couple guys kick in your door and run in with weapons, any weapon and you shoot one dead. It is ruled self defense in court or no charges at all.

    Now enters the bad guys wife and sues you in civil court for wrongful death.

    I have a real problem with that seems like it should be considered double jeopardy?

    If it was a good shoot there should be no civil suit allowed.

    Comments???

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    ghosthunter wrote:
    This brings up some thing that has bothered me for awhile.

    Lets say a couple guys kick in your door and run in with weapons, any weapon and you shoot one dead. It is ruled self defense in court or no charges at all.

    Now enters the bad guys wife and sues you in civil court for wrongful death.

    I have a real problem with that seems like it should be considered double jeopardy?

    If it was a good shoot there should be no civil suit allowed.

    Comments???
    umbrella insurance policy
    Live Free or Die!

  25. #25
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    ghosthunter wrote:
    This brings up some thing that has bothered me for awhile.

    Lets say a couple guys kick in your door and run in with weapons, any weapon and you shoot one dead. It is ruled self defense in court or no charges at all.

    Now enters the bad guys wife and sues you in civil court for wrongful death.

    I have a real problem with that seems like it should be considered double jeopardy?

    If it was a good shoot there should be no civil suit allowed.

    Comments???
    Unfortunately it's not because, among other things, civil and criminal cases are seperate aspects of the law. That is one reason why it isn't double jeopardy.

    I don't agree with that crap either, but that is the way the beast grumbles.

    EDIT: Bad grammar, and jeopardy is one of my spelling demons.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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