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Thread: why NOT to carry weapons

  1. #1
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    Hello, im from Denmark

    I saw you website in danish TV, and i think you have to hear my opinion about weapons.


    I total disagree with your opinion that you can carry weapons anywhere.

    US is the western country which has the most shootings, why?

    Because you allow people to carry a firearm, and people has such easy access to it.


    i the tv program you told a story that some of your members sad on a pancake restaurant and their came some bad guys wanting to rob the place.

    But, where do you think the robbers got their weapons? They could get the weapons just as easy as you guys.


    Can't you see this? I have seen alot of documentaries about Guns and US people, that families lets their youngets members to try and have a weapon.

    To me thats insane, no one would allow that i Europa.


    in Europa we don't allow people to have weapons the same way as in US, and here we don't have so many shootings as in US. Can't you guys see this?

    firearms is bad, most weapons is developed only to kill people!


    Best Regards

    Kimse.


  2. #2
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    With respect Kimse.... please read the quote below...

    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." Wayne LaPierre

    When you understand that concept... the concept that bad guys will always have guns because outlawing guns only leads to bad guys smuggling guns in from somewhere else... and since bad guys will always have guns good guys need guns to fight back against the bad guys.... then, and only when that concept is understood, will people realize that guns aren't the problem... bad guys are the problem. And good guys need guns to fight the bad guys.

    Now some folks say that the police have guns and they are the one's who fight the bad guys. Well, if that were true then the police would be right there in the dark alley when the bad guy rapes an innocent teenager... or kicks down the front door and beats the home owner to death. But we all know the police aren't there at the time of the crime.... but the victim always is there. And if that victim has a gun then the bad guy loses... and the victim doesn't get raped or beaten to death.

    It really is simple.

    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." Wayne LaPierre


    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    We don't allow criminals to carry guns, sorry. I don't know what the news abroad says about us, but it is totally illegal for criminals to have and use guns.

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    kimse:

    Do the police in your country have access to guns?

    I hope not.

    Using your logic, this would cause them to go on killing sprees.

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    kimse wrote:
    I saw you website in danish TV, and i think you have to hear my opinion about weapons.
    Perhaps this is a language thing, but I couldn't care less about the uninformed opinions of people from other countries and cultures.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    kimse wrote:
    Hello, im from Denmark

    I saw you website in danish TV, and i think you have to hear my opinion about weapons.


    I total disagree with your opinion that you can carry weapons anywhere.

    US is the western country which has the most shootings, why?

    Because you allow people to carry a firearm, and people has such easy access to it.


    i the tv program you told a story that some of your members sad on a pancake restaurant and their came some bad guys wanting to rob the place.

    But, where do you think the robbers got their weapons? They could get the weapons just as easy as you guys.


    Can't you see this? I have seen alot of documentaries about Guns and US people, that families lets their youngets members to try and have a weapon.

    To me thats insane, no one would allow that i Europa.


    in Europa we don't allow people to have weapons the same way as in US, and here we don't have so many shootings as in US. Can't you guys see this?

    firearms is bad, most weapons is developed only to kill people!


    Best Regards

    Kimse.
    Kimse,

    I had the wonderful opportunity of living in your beautiful country for three years. While I would not change that experience for anything, I choose to live in the U.S. because we are free. Yes, to an extent, Denmark is free. But, having lived in both countries, I can unequivocally say that Denmark is much less free than the U.S.

    I treasure that freedom. It was purchased with blood and guns and can only be preserved with the promise of blood and guns.

    One of our freedoms is the absolute right to self-defense, which is meaningless without the reasonable means to exercise that right. In recognition of this right (and the part that guns played in obtaining Liberty), our Founders enshrined that right in our Constitution.

    I appreciate your point of view. I am glad that you live in a country whose policies are to your liking. Please respect that Americans generally want the right to keep and bear arms protected and that I live in a country whose policies are to my liking.

    Har du en god aften.

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    t33j wrote:
    kimse wrote:
    I saw you website in danish TV, and i think you have to hear my opinion about weapons.
    Perhaps this is a language thing, but I couldn't care less about the uninformed opinions of people from other countries and cultures.
    That was rude.

  8. #8
    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Hello Kimse, thank you for visiting to learn about a uniquely American concept in the "civilized" world.

    One thing you must realize, is that any show you may have seen on TV is likely to be severely biased against firearms ownership.

    Here in America, we have the Constitutional Right to own and carry firearms--for protection against any who would do us harm (criminal, foreign, or our own government). This Right is pre-existing, meaning that while the Constitution recognizes it, it does not grant it--that Right (to self defense) is inherent in ALL PEOPLE.

    While America has more handgun related deaths and crime than most of Europe, you can not just take that singular fact and extrapolate anything.

    Suicides by firearms make up nearly half of firearm deaths, yet as a percentage of suicides throughout the civilized world, the U.S. is average. So while Americans tend to kill themselves using firearms, other nations' citizens are just as self destructive, they just use other means. Therefore, suicide deaths must be removed from the equation.

    Americans use firearms an estimated 2.5 MILLION times a year to defend themselves from criminals. Not every one of those are fired guns. Some are just 'displayed' guns. Those are men, women, and elderly folks, who might otherwise be unable to defend themselves. The "30,000 gun deaths a year" or what ever number used includes those who LAWFULLY discharged their firearms to defend themselves against violence or crime (reported at 2-3K a year), resulting in death of the assailant. That also does not include the 500+ killed by law enforcement each year.

    Those convicted of felonies (and even some misdemeanors) are prohibited from purchasing, owning, or possessing firearms. Yet somehow all these repeat offenders aquire weapons, violating the law. So laws to keep firearms out of criminal hands, while a tool for punishment AFTER arrest, does nothing to keep law abiding citizens safe. Even in countries that ban firearms to citizens (Mexico, for example), the 'bad guys' all still have firearms [and remember, of all the firearms seized in Mexico last year, only 7% could be tracked back to the United States. The remaining 93% did not have identifiable markings--so came from other countries. The figure of 70% of guns coming from the U.S. is a half truth--70% of TRACEABLE guns came from here).

    Also, while the American criminal is likely to use a firearm to commit violent crimes, violent crime itself is not unique to America. The United Kingdom, for instance, has a horrid violent crime rate, but the suspects usually use clubs, knives, and swords, and operate in larger groups. America also tracks COMMITTED violent crimes, while many countries only track SOLVED crimes. Unfortunately for the British, since the victims have no firearms, they are helpless against multiple assailants with clubs, etc.

    When you subtract the number of Lawfully fired weapons and suicides (which we've already covered) form the 20-30K 'gun deaths' toted about, it brings the numbers to a more rational level (perhaps 8K a year). Then you have to removed 'criminal on criminal' violence from that number (gang violence, drug violence, etc). Even in your 'civilized' european countries, organized criminals have weapons and kill one another. The TRUE number of "Victims of Gun Crimes" is only a fraction of that 8,000.

    Finally, the cities in America with the highest crime rates are those which BAN firearm carrying and/or firearm ownership. Those cities/states that do not prohibit firearms ownership or carrying have markedly lower crime rates.

    I don't expect you to completely understand the American mindset. America was founded by INDIVIDUALS who cherish their rights, freedoms, and have a strong sense of self reliance. Europeans are unacustomed to such concepts. Europe, by comparison, has always been a class society, with those above controlling those below. Control of the populace by the governing has always been a factor in Europe. The fact that so many countries there have given up sovereignty to the EU, and cannot even defend themselves without the United States military, and that (in England, for example) people are expected to submit to aggression and not defend themselves, all is indicative of the mindset there.





  9. #9
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    kimse wrote:
    Hello, im from Denmark

    I saw you website in danish TV, and i think you have to hear my opinion about weapons.
    No, you may offer your opinion, we do not HAVE to hear about it.

    I total disagree with your opinion that you can carry weapons anywhere.

    US is the western country which has the most shootings, why?
    The USA is high on the list, but currently rated NO 8 for gun related murder
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    Rank
    Countries
    Amount


    # 1
    South Africa:
    0.719782 per 1,000 people



    # 2
    Colombia:
    0.509801 per 1,000 people



    # 3
    Thailand:
    0.312093 per 1,000 people



    # 4
    Zimbabwe:
    0.0491736 per 1,000 people



    # 5
    Mexico:
    0.0337938 per 1,000 people



    # 6
    Belarus:
    0.0321359 per 1,000 people



    # 7
    Costa Rica:
    0.0313745 per 1,000 people



    # 8
    United States:
    0.0279271 per 1,000 people



    # 9
    Uruguay:
    0.0245902 per 1,000 people



    # 10
    Lithuania:
    0.0230748 per 1,000 people

    Because you allow people to carry a firearm, and people has such easy access to it.
    Criminals can/will have guns, the law only restricts the law abiding citizen. You can not tell me that your country has no gun violence, only you dont hear about it.

    i the tv program you told a story that some of your members sad on a pancake restaurant and their came some bad guys wanting to rob the place.

    But, where do you think the robbers got their weapons? They could get the weapons just as easy as you guys.
    They got them illegally, thats why they are called criminals. They HOPE that people do not carry guns, makes their victims easy prey.

    Can't you see this? I have seen alot of documentaries about Guns and US people, that families lets their youngets members to try and have a weapon.

    To me thats insane, no one would allow that i Europa.
    Ever been to a small country called Switzerland? You may want to look around your part of the world before you make such a statement.


    in Europa we don't allow people to have weapons the same way as in US, and here we don't have so many shootings as in US. Can't you guys see this?
    Honestly, this is why I dont live in Europa! I prefer to be free than be micro-managed by government. Do you remember a few decades ago, a country called Germany and a little man named Adolph?

    firearms is bad, most weapons is developed only to kill people!
    Answer me this question, a very large man with a large knife is getting ready to slice your throat, would you rather have a cell phone, a knife or a gun? You can call the police, and they will be there just in time to outline your dead body. You can show your knife, and see if your skill is better than his. Or you can have a gun. My choice is to have a gun.How about you?

    Best Regards

    Kimse.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    eye95 wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    kimse wrote:
    I saw you website in danish TV, and i think you have to hear my opinion about weapons.
    Perhaps this is a language thing, but I couldn't care less about the uninformed opinions of people from other countries and cultures.
    That was rude.
    oh, I don't know about that eye95, some ill informed (by choice) person from Europe chastising the U.S. about this topic is what is rude. The man obviously has a computer so he could do a little research before he takes U.S. citizens to task. If it wasn't for gun toting Americans giving their lives by the hundreds of thousands his butt would be speaking German or Russian.

    If he is not ill-informed, then he is just a brain washed run of the mill fool who thinks that being weak/defenseless makes one safe. Being weak does not make one safe. There's no excuse for anyone not understanding that.



    Kimse, if you're reading this, I will take my chances with the criminals AND freedom, rather than with European style police state governments and sharply curtailed freedom. I mean no disrespect, but you seem to be so busy asking us why we can't see, that you don't see yourself.



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    6L6GC wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    kimse wrote:
    I saw you website in danish TV, and i think you have to hear my opinion about weapons.
    Perhaps this is a language thing, but I couldn't care less about the uninformed opinions of people from other countries and cultures.
    That was rude.
    oh, I don't know about that eye95, some ill informed (by choice) person from Europe chastising the U.S. about this topic is what is rude. The man obviously has a computer so he could do a little research before he takes U.S. citizens to task. If it wasn't for gun toting Americans giving their lives by the hundreds of thousands his butt would be speaking German or Russian.

    If he is not ill-informed, then he is just a brain washed run of the mill fool who thinks that being weak/defenseless makes one safe. Being weak does not make one safe. There's no excuse for anyone not understanding that.



    Kimse, if you're reading this, I will take my chances with the criminals AND freedom, rather than with European style police state governments and sharply curtailed freedom. I mean no disrespect, but you seem to be so busy asking us why we can't see, that you don't see yourself.

    It was rude. Even if you feel an opinion is uninformed, if it is genuinely expressed with respect, then courtesy demands that you answer it with respect.

    That reply embarrassed me as a gun owner and OCer. If we want to change hearts and minds we need to be the ones who respond with rationality, especially when we are responding to ration--regardless of how uninformed we believe it to be.

    Do you want to score points? Or, do you want to change hearts and minds?

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    Here is my response. Hope its easy to understand. If you really want to learn about gun ownership in the states kimse then please read this.

    1. Guns are a basic part of our countries history, it is the reason we were able to defeat the British and become a independent country, that and the will to win. If it were not for guns we would still be under british rule.

    2. Our constitution, which is what the foundation of our country that tells us what the government can not take away from us, states in basic terms that it is our God given right to keep guns and the government can not take that right away. I do not know of any other country that has that right, there could be one but I dont know of any. So thats why most countries in europe have been able to ban guns, because the people dont have any type of constitution that prevents the governments from taking guns away.

    3. The FBI report came out saying that gun sales went way up last year, and murders and crime rates went down. So if it is that so many people have guns as why our crime is so high, then how is it crime went down when more people bought guns?

    4. Britain and Australia who have banned gun ownership in the last decade, has had crime go up, not down. How do you explain that?

    99% of legal gun owners will not break the law. If guns are outlawed the only ones who will turn them in is the law abiding citizens, not the criminals, because they are criminals. If you can come up with a way to take every gun away from every criminal and keep a single gun from coming into the country I am all ears, but its impossible. If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

    Also the main reason for our founding fathers who wrote our constitution and made sure the government could not take our guns away, did not put that in there to protect us from criminals, but to ensure that we were never under the rule from a tyrannical government again. The founding fathers had just come from an oppressed government who did not have a say in how things went, and then when the king decided to take our guns away that was the last straw, and the rest is history. Having guns ensures it will not happen again, and if it does the people still have a way to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government.

    Now if what if all the criminals decided to pick up baseball bats and go around killing thousands of people each year with bats, should we then outlaw them? What about golf clubs or walking canes? Guns do not kill people, people kill people. A gun loaded and laying on a table will not, no matter how much you yell and scream at in, jump up in the air and decide to shoot someone. It is no the gun, it is the person behind it. If a criminal wants to kill or hurt someone they will do it whether they have access to a gun or not. A gun ensures the us, the victims of crime have a chance to defend our selves against the criminals. What you have not heard is the thousands of people whose lives are saved each year because they had a gun, and most did not even had to shoot at the criminal, the sight of it scared them away.

    Maybe you can tell me how why it is morally superior for a women to be found raped and murdered than to be found explaining to the cop how the dead criminal attempted to rape and kill her. There have been a countless number of women who were able to defend themselves from rape and murder because they had a gun. I dont know about you, but I would not want to have to tell the women that they were wrong and the right thing for them to do would have been to let the criminal rape and kill them? Again, its not gun, its the person that causes crime.

    Now hopefully this gives you an insight on why we own guns and have the right to own them. I know its a long post but I hope you read all of it, and if you want to have a civil conversation on guns I am all willing to politely discus this topic.

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    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
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    kimse wrote:

    To me thats insane, no one would allow that i Europa.


    in Europa we don't allow people to have weapons the same way as in US, and here we don't have so many shootings as in US. Can't you guys see this?


    I believe Switzerland is still in Europa. Their national sport is marksmanship, and 90% of the households their own a firearm.

    Please do not generalize. That is a symptom of socialism, and it has no pert in my country.

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    t33j wrote:
    Perhaps this is a language thing, but I couldn't care less about the uninformed opinions of people from other countries and cultures.
    It is not a "language thing", but it is an intelligently skeptical thing, not caring about uninformed opinions of any people, of any country or of any culture. The culture wars begin where once it was thought "racist".

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    Regular Member ItTakesAWolf's Avatar
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    OH NO!!! I cant seem to think of anything "funny" and/or "wise" to put in my forum signature...NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! lol

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    This person is not a troll. She is from another country and has not had the experiences we have had. She doesn't understand our culture.

    Should we explain it to her, hoping to change the way she thinks? Or, should we be dismissive and rude, reinforcing whatever negative picture she has of gun-toting Americans?

    I, and several other posters, have taken the time to respectfully respond. That is the most effective way to promote OC. If promoting OC is one's goal, then he should respectfully reply. If scoring gotcha points is the goal, well, do what you have to.

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    kimse wrote:
    Hello, im from Denmark

    I saw you website in danish TV, and i think you have to hear my opinion about weapons.


    I total disagree with your opinion that you can carry weapons anywhere.

    US is the western country which has the most shootings, why?

    Because you allow people to carry a firearm, and people has such easy access to it.


    i the tv program you told a story that some of your members sad on a pancake restaurant and their came some bad guys wanting to rob the place.

    But, where do you think the robbers got their weapons? They could get the weapons just as easy as you guys.


    Can't you see this? I have seen alot of documentaries about Guns and US people, that families lets their youngets members to try and have a weapon.

    To me thats insane, no one would allow that i Europa.


    in Europa we don't allow people to have weapons the same way as in US, and here we don't have so many shootings as in US. Can't you guys see this?

    firearms is bad, most weapons is developed only to kill people!


    Best Regards

    Kimse.
    Here are some simple math equations.

    Europe or European Union * United States
    Denmark * United States

    Illegal guns are everywhere. Whether abandoned in long ago wars, bought with ill gotten gains, or traded for as if they were baseball cards for whatever was thought to be needed. Criminals EVERYWHERE got 'em. Whether you believe that or not, all you need to do is some simple fact checking on this issue.

    Now, on the other hand? Legal guns are hard to come by. Especially the unlicensed kind.

    We are not subjects of royalty here in the United States. We are free citizens, mostly who want the government to do the job that it was hired to do, with as little money as possible, requiring as little power as possible.

    I am sorry to hear you do not approve of how the citizens of these United States live, but you are royal subject to your king and technically do not have an opinion. We are a free people and we are willing to fight for the God-given right to rule ourselves instead of heralding in or retaining such silly notions as a "divine right" to rule.

    The firearm was "the weapon" that made freedom available. Does this not matter as well?

    Subject of a Constitutional Monarchy * Citizen of a Republic &/or Free State/Commonwealth/Providence/Federal Territory

    We may have our own problems... but at least we do not have people running around with royal titles spending our country's money like it was going out of style just because of their birthright.

    http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/peop...0504-arte.html

    http://www.monstersandcritics.com/pe...yals-get-raise

    We at least elect those bozos.

    http://www.gop.gov/policy-news/10/04...message-to-the
    http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp87.pdf

    And at least we can get rid of them in a given time period... if we have any sense.
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    This... from someone whose nation spread fear at the verymention of the name... 'Dane' for several centuries. Too much bleach in their gene pool since then I'dguess.

  19. #19
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    eye95 wrote:
    This person is not a troll. She is from another country and has not had the experiences we have had. She doesn't understand our culture.

    Should we explain it to her, hoping to change the way she thinks? Or, should we be dismissive and rude, reinforcing whatever negative picture she has of gun-toting Americans?

    I, and several other posters, have taken the time to respectfully respond. That is the most effective way to promote OC. If promoting OC is one's goal, then he should respectfully reply. If scoring gotcha points is the goal, well, do what you have to.
    Why do you assume this is a HER?
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    This person is not a troll. She is from another country and has not had the experiences we have had. She doesn't understand our culture.

    Should we explain it to her, hoping to change the way she thinks? Or, should we be dismissive and rude, reinforcing whatever negative picture she has of gun-toting Americans?

    I, and several other posters, have taken the time to respectfully respond. That is the most effective way to promote OC. If promoting OC is one's goal, then he should respectfully reply. If scoring gotcha points is the goal, well, do what you have to.
    Why do you assume this is a HER?
    I dunno. The name looked like a variation on "Kim." If I have assumed incorrectly, I'll apologize. However, I am sure that many have assumed that Kimse is a him. Absent being told one way or the other, we make the best assumption we can.

  21. #21
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    Kimse,

    I would also like to point out one other difference between the culture of the USA and all European nations:

    We are a nation of individuals in which we believe we personally are responsible for our own personal safety.

    In European nations, you are not responsible for anything ... your government gives you the opinions you are supposed to have and they are the one's responsible for your safety ... so they then take from you the tools you would need to exercise any sort of responsibility for your own safety because those same tools could be used to oust them from power. As was pointed out in another post here, you have no recourse to defend yourself from any criminal element, tyrannical government or invasion from an aggressive force. In fact, it is not your government who has kept your country (or any other European nation) safe from invasion, but the deployment of US Troops on the continent.

    There was a concept that has been very effective called MADD that has kept the USA and Soviet Union from using a nuclear weapon the past 60 years. This concept was that if one fired the first nuclear weapon, the other would respond with overwhelming destruction. This same concept has been proven to be effective at curtailing criminal behavior. While criminals are still preying upon other criminals in states that have some sort of personal gun carry, they are preying on law abiding citizens less and less. Again, to quote the FBI, who did a survey of convicted felons serving prison sentences, when asked the question of whether they would rob/assault an armed person, they overwhelming answered that they would look for unarmed prey, not armed prey.

    Now, as to the question of how criminal's obtain guns, a lot of the guns are obtained through other criminal behavior such as home robbery, warehouse robbery, and what are known as straw purchases. These straw purchases are becoming less common as the enforcement of the laws against it are applied more forcefully.

    And, just to clarify the figure that AZkopper (for your information he is law enforcement officer, retired) arrived at concerning the amount of gun violence, he might have neglected to include one more class that inflates the figure: many criminals who commit a crime with a gun is more likely to be a REPEAT offender with a gun, so the final figure might indicate actual gun crimes, but does not reflect the true quanitiy of people committing those crimes.

    Finally, you will soon see that the gun violence will begin to sharply decline as criminals who use guns are prosecuted and incarcerated, or, to be brutally honest, are removed permanently from society. Society, whether in US or Europe, operates within a framework of accepted behavior and if a criminal will not modify his behavior to meet the normal civilized behavior accepted by society, then that society will have to remove him one way or another.

    Do I, as a citizen who goes armed every day, all day, want to shoot and kill someone? Absolutely not! It would be a tragedy for the dead person's family and for me. Will I shoot if I am confronted with a situation in which I believe I might die at the hands of another? I don't know as I have never been at that point yet. Have I pulled my gun on another? Yes, on more than one occassion and each time, the bad guy decided he had somewhere else to be when he saw my weapon. Did it save my life? According to statistics for that particular metro and my demographics, probably, but more likely it kept me from suffering great bodily harm at the hands of another.

    Rather than speak to Americans, perhaps you might gain a better understanding of us if you were to speak to Europeans who are living in the USA. They have seen the differences in the mindsets between the USA and the Continent and should be better able to discuss the differences with you from a point you can better understand.

    And my final point of information is that I am a 50 year old woman who stands 62 inches tall and weighs 150 pounds. I am too old, too fat and too out of shape to be able to effectively defend myself from a determined attacker, nor can I outrun any attacker who is most likely to be both younger and more physically fit than I am now. I have also invested in advanced pistol training (same level as police in my state get) and have gained Expert Pistol Marksmanship in the same certifiedtesting as the police. I am not a police officer, nor do I want to be. I simply want to ensure that I am as experienced and disciplined as I can be in the use of this deadly force. I consider this to be part of the responsibility of carrying a gun.

    I also hope you continue this discourse and expand your understanding of the citizens of the USA.
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

  22. #22
    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    okboomer wrote:
    AZkopper (for your information he is law enforcement officer, retired)
    I wish I was retired, I've got 16 on and 15 more to go...

  23. #23
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    AZkopper wrote:
    okboomer wrote:
    AZkopper (for your information he is law enforcement officer, retired)
    I wish I was retired, I've got 16 on and 15 more to go...
    My apologies ... thanks for correcting my mistake

    Hope the next 15 go faster and that you complete them safely and healthy.
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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