Vanns40 wrote:
NovaCop10 wrote:
peter nap wrote:
Most Departments limit their Officers due mostly to Budget and Manpower allocation.
Anyone can make a citizens arrest for a felony or BOP.
Now, the interesting thing is that if they make the arrest as a Citizen, the constitutional limits on search and seizure, don't apply.
Somewhere here, I posted case law about two off duty airport cops that caught a DUI at a stoplight, while in one of their private cars.
They searched the man and car while waiting for the local cops and found drugs. He appealed the conviction and the court ruled that the constitutional limits protected the citizen from the government, not another Citizen.
Now the question I have is, if I'm pulled by a Cop out of his venue and decide I don't want to be searched and knock him on his azz....am I guilty of felony assault of a Police Officer or simple assault of a Citizen ?:?
Good question. Hmmm I can't recall a case of this occurring although I do remember someone bringing this up during legal class. The instructor stated that if you are acting as a citizen, then most likely you would be charged as such. A commonwealth attorney may charge with the felony and let the court decide.
Someone questioned above about LEO's out of jurisdiction and DUI. DUI's are obviously breach of peace misdemeanors and would be ok to detain. Most likely the officer would just detain until the local LEO's can come.
Can you cite what case law that allowed the officers to search if they were acting as citizens? That is a surprise.
IF, he identifies himself as a police officer AND he is certified in the Commonwealth of VA AND, you knock him on his *ss, you are guilty of a felony. IF however, he identifies himself as a police officer and he is NOT certified by the Commonwealth, HE is guilty of impersonating a police officer and YOU can have him arrested!
I seldom offer any opinions on this subject, because it's one in which you basically have to be right - there's no "good faith" or "reasonable belief" defense.
That said, I would point out that I'm a "lawyer" everywhere because I've been graduated from an accredited school of law. But I'm only an "attorney" in Virginia, because that's where I'm licensed (though that gets me into certain federal courts as well). Same principle applies to cops. Unless there's a statute that says so, a cop's territorial authority pretty much ends at the borders of the state, county, city, or town he's working for. A Fairfax County police officer has no greaterauthority in Dinwiddie than he does in Georgia. He's not a "law enforcement officer" in those places.
Point two, and the one that's potentially dangerous. In Virginia, every person has an absolute right to resist an unlawful arrest, and to use such degree of force as is necessary to do so, including deadly force. Now, consider that Title 18.2 and 19.2 of the Virginia Code cover crimes and criminal procedure. I can't even remember whether that's in two or three volumes, total, but I can tell you that I don't have it all memorized, though I've got a better handle on it than most attorneys. And it changes every year in a couple of dozen ways which are not catalogued anywhere. I would not trust my own knowledge of the law, absent an eggregious and blatant violation by a cop, to feel justified in resisting.
That guy, Anderson, I think his name was, in Roanoke who was arrested because he didn't want to talk about his gun, could have lawfully resisted arrest to the point of shooting at least one of the cops in my opinion. But I'm pretty sure he'd have wound up dead if he'd done so. And that's because the cops would have murdered him in retaliation. No question in my mind. His family might have had a cause of action for wrongful death, but where's the witnesses? And who's going to prosecute the cops for murder, much less abduction?
The moral of the story is this: you may be able to knock him on his arse, and you may be able to have him arrested, from a strictly legal point of view. But as a practical matter, you're likely to wind up dead and the cop will not be arrested, even if you can find someone willing to take the complaint.
