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Thread: Masculinity through the barrel of a gun

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    According to my Sociology instructor there is no difference between a man exercising his right to carry and self-defense and a thug on the street who carries for street credit.

    I am no man but found this subject struck a nerve with me. Most firearm owning men that I have met are very respectful and down to earth.

    Of course I threw my hand into the air, declared that I am pro-2nd Amendment and pro-self-defense. I also declared to all of the class that I believe every man and woman should be armed because an armed society is a polite society.

    I suppose the intent of this post is to ask you guys (who make up most of this chat) how it feels to have your exercising your right to carry and self-defense equated with being nothing more than an expression of machoness? While us women are not subject to that accusation or critique. That is not to say women aren't critiqued, just in a different way.

    Iwill see how my open declaration regardingthe 2nd Amendmment and my stance plays out in my grades I need to keep my mouth shut sometimes.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    I personally don't care one bit what the lefties think. They can think all they want about me. As far as I'm concerned they can think I'm a terrorist. But the second they try and DO something, there's going to be trouble.

    I have never cared what people have thought or said about me, that's their business. If they decide to shove it in my face, they may just get shoved back.

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    I carry a gun for the same reason I have a spare tire in my car or insurance for that matter. So does that mean everyone who has insurance is compensating?

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Well your Sociology Instructor is a short sighted fool and has some truth to the statement as well.

    Let me explain there are a few idiots out there who do carry for that very purpose. Although I feel the vast majority carry accept our limits to some degree and when our awareness, words, physical abilities are not enough in that fraction of time to be able to stop the threat.

    It not only takes Strength, Character it takes Resolve to Face a Threat Head On, Take Appropriate Action and Be Accountable for Our Actions.

    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Jayd1981 wrote:
    I carry a gun for the same reason I have a spare tire in my car or insurance for that matter. So does that mean everyone who has insurance is compensating?
    LOL that made me laugh. I will ask my instructor the next time I see her.

    The positive was that after I raised my hand and said what I had to say there were a few very liberal people in the class that I know well who stated that they agree with me. Apparently my discussions about the 2nd Amendment with some of my friends has been productive.

    I have noticed with a number of my liberal friends who are unfamiliar with firearms is that most of them are ignorant about the 2nd Amendment and firearms, not against them. I think that cultivating informed positive firearm and 2nd Amendment stances is best when these young adults are young adults. When they get older they will become hardened to the misinformation out there in our society.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    I feel that I become far less "macho" while carrying. %90 of the time nobody even knows that I am carrying. When I am carrying I tend to be a little quieter, more observant, and far more cautious. There goes my street cred eh?

    I also carry my wallet, and a pocket knife. I carry them both for their useful nature, and try to use both responsibly

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Norman wrote:
    When I am carrying I tend to be a little quieter, more observant, and far more cautious. There goes my street cred eh?
    Jeez, being quieter, more observant and cautious :what:What about your street cred!


    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Your instructor compares those who legally carry to gang members then I would compare the instructor to a fool!
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    My instructor played audio from NPR where a man was comparing the two--then tried to capitalize on it. They know I am pro 2nd Amendment and that I carry. Before they called on me they pointed out that I was not going to agree. Apparently I am more vocal than I even think I am:celebrate
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    I also declared to all of the class that I believe every man and woman should be armed because an armed society is a polite society.
    While a very cute and trite retort, it really does nothing to advance our cause.

    I'm not aware of any evidence that a polite society follows widespread gun possession. It's just a marketing term made up long ago that I wish we would stop using.

    Suppose an armed society made for an impolite society. Would we "turn them all in"? Of course not.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    deanf wrote:
    I also declared to all of the class that I believe every man and woman should be armed because an armed society is a polite society.
    While a very cute and trite retort, it really does nothing to advance our cause.

    I'm not aware of any evidence that a polite society follows widespread gun possession. It's just a marketing term made up long ago that I wish we would stop using.

    Suppose an armed society made for an impolite society. Would we "turn them all in"? Of course not.
    Neither one of us can prove that an armed society is either a polite or impolite society. It must be the optimust in me. Society would be a more polite society for reasonable people; but then again "reasonable" is subjective.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    According to my Sociology instructor there is no difference between a man exercising his right to carry and self-defense and a thug on the street who carries for street credit.
    Ask you sociology 'instructor' how this applies to my wife and daughter, both of whom are licensed to carry concealed, both of whom are trained to use firearms, and both of whom refuse to be passive victims.

    Are they, too, compensating? Or is your 'instructor' compensating for being insecure, inadequate, and incompetent by running down people who take responsibility for their own safety?

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    According to my Sociology instructor there is no difference between a man exercising his right to carry and self-defense and a thug on the street who carries for street credit.

    I am no man but found this subject struck a nerve with me. Most firearm owning men that I have met are very respectful and down to earth.

    Of course I threw my hand into the air, declared that I am pro-2nd Amendment and pro-self-defense. I also declared to all of the class that I believe every man and woman should be armed because an armed society is a polite society.

    I suppose the intent of this post is to ask you guys (who make up most of this chat) how it feels to have your exercising your right to carry and self-defense equated with being nothing more than an expression of machoness? While us women are not subject to that accusation or critique. That is not to say women aren't critiqued, just in a different way.

    Iwill see how my open declaration regardingthe 2nd Amendmment and my stance plays out in my grades I need to keep my mouth shut sometimes.
    Hmmm, they say it is compensating for something also. Are you compensating? :P
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    deanf wrote:
    I also declared to all of the class that I believe every man and woman should be armed because an armed society is a polite society.
    While a very cute and trite retort, it really does nothing to advance our cause.

    I'm not aware of any evidence that a polite society follows widespread gun possession. It's just a marketing term made up long ago that I wish we would stop using.

    Suppose an armed society made for an impolite society. Would we "turn them all in"? Of course not.

    I agree. Its use is kind of lame.

    The quote comes from a 1942 science fiction novel "BeyondThis Horizon" by Robert A.Heinlein. Part of the story includes a world where dueling (using guns) is common, expected, and provides social status.

    Anyways, here's an explanation of the politeness/gun thing from Wiki:

    A sub-theme of the book is the carrying and use of firearms. In the novel being armed is part of being a man; otherwise he wears a brassard and is considered weak and inferior. Women are allowed but not expected to be armed. Duels, either deadly or survivable, may easily occur when someone feels that they have been wronged or insulted, a custom that keeps order and politeness. A defining quote from the book which is repeated throughout Heinlein's work is, "An armed society is a polite society", is very popular with those who support the personal right to keep and bear arms.

    I've been meaning to read this book but just can't find the time. But, even without actually reading the book, it seems like some pro-gunners (actually many) just lifted a hook line from the book and it really doesn't make too much sense to use "An armed society is a polite society." today with reference to guns or gun rightsin America in the year 2010.

    To use the line to build somekind of pro-gun principle or constructwithout any of the context of the story in the novel is, uh, .... really weird. Simplistic. Naive.

    Therefore, I agree with DF when he opines that the hook line doesn't advance the cause. Better to use more rational utterances to promote and support guns and gun rights...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_This_Horizon


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    I would say you teacher lives somewhere that there are no thugs on the street looking for cred, so s/he can't make a practical comparison.
    Or perhaps that's why your teacher is a sociologist, not a psychologist, and therefore can't accurately determine why we do what we do (not like actual psychologists can either) but instead just made it up.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote:
    Hmmm, they say it is compensating for something also. Are you compensating? :P
    LOL, they must be saying that women who carry have P*n#s envy. I admitt to having gun envy when I see someone with a really nice handgun.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    Better to use more rational utterances to promote and support guns and gun rights...


    "Guns don't kill people....I do"?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    cynicist wrote:
    I would say you teacher lives somewhere that there are no thugs on the street looking for cred, so s/he can't make a practical comparison.
    Or perhaps that's why your teacher is a sociologist, not a psychologist, and therefore can't accurately determine why we do what we do (not like actual psychologists can either) but instead just made it up.
    Actually they just moved to Centeral District...I said I lived there before and thought the area was a bit shadey. She accused me of being racist.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    cynicist wrote:
    I would say you teacher lives somewhere that there are no thugs on the street looking for cred, so s/he can't make a practical comparison.
    Or perhaps that's why your teacher is a sociologist, not a psychologist, and therefore can't accurately determine why we do what we do (not like actual psychologists can either) but instead just made it up.
    Actually they just moved to Centeral District...I said I lived there before and thought the area was a bit shadey. She accused me of being racist.
    Teachers, blah
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    sirpuma wrote:
    I personally don't care one bit what the lefties think. They can think all they want about me. As far as I'm concerned they can think I'm a terrorist. But the second they try and DO something, there's going to be trouble.

    I have never cared what people have thought or said about me, that's their business. If they decide to shove it in my face, they may just get shoved back.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    You could always ask your Sociology teacher how they feel being a teacher of a pseudo science.

    That one really pisses social science majors off, because psychology and sociology don't match up in the slightest half the time.

    But back on topic, no, I don't carry because I'm "compensating." I carry because I want to defend myself and my friends and family. Simple as that.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Having taught at a college for 5 years myself, I made up a saying:
    College is where you exchange intelligence for knowledge.
    Ask your Sosc instructor what he/she thinks of that.
    Unfortunately, colleges have become bastions of liberal thought, and the chief ill of the college instructor is to think all knowledge is owned by those "smart" enough to teach.
    The ability to think, reason, and learn, which should be the first skill promoted at college, is actually frowned upon in most circles there, and should someone be so bold as to challenge the "vast pool" of liberal thought, they will shortly be eschewed.
    The ridiculous thought that OC by armed citizens, male or not, should be equated with the machismo of a thug, is so completely outside any reason or probability, that I wouldn't even bother to argue with someone so bigoted as to promote such an idea.

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    Here is a story for you to pass on to your ivory tower professor about why this man carries a gun everywhere.

    On 31 March 2007 a former friend of mine came to where I went to college and shot one of his acquaintances from high school. Three days later he did the same thing 300 miles to the south. He was captured in Nevada in the stolen car of his second victim. Earlier in that month he tried to kill another acquaintance in Tucson, AZ. I went to church with the shooter for a number of years and knew him fairly well, I even saw him regularly in college as he lived on the floor below me until he was kicked out of school in 2005. He was a bit different and never really got along with anyone. He knew where I lived and had my phone number from previous contacts.

    The Sunday after the first killing in Moscow, ID I got a phone call at 0430hrs. According to the police I am damned lucky I didn't answer as that call was mentioned in the shooter's interrogations. Simply put, he was looking for me. Following the first shooting the news mentioned that my former friend was a suspect and I spent 3 days in my fraternity with my 870 before I left for a ROTC conference in Florida, during which he was arrested. I didn't walk around my house with an 870 to compensate, I did it because I was honestly scared for my life.

    The shooter has been thrown off campus for documented violent incidents, stalking and other strange behavior. He was later determined to be paranoid schizophrenic. He claimed that the motive for his shooting was to take out those who were trying to steal his "power or aura" and that he had no control over his body. The shooter was in State of Idaho custody until he was declared mentally competent to stand trial. In ID we have no insanity defense.

    Less than one month later, on 16 April 2007, the Virginia Tech Massacre took place. On 17 April 2007 I took my XD45 with me to my college classes for the first time and for the first time began taking responsibility for my personal safety.

    My name has been on more than one "hit list" in high school when I was a football player. I never missed school because of it.

    When your professor has his life threatened personally, only then is he qualified to speak as to whether or not people are compensating for something by carrying a gun.

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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    According to my Sociology instructor there is no difference between a man exercising his right to carry and self-defense and a thug on the street who carries for street credit.

    I am no man but found this subject struck a nerve with me. Most firearm owning men that I have met are very respectful and down to earth.

    Of course I threw my hand into the air, declared that I am pro-2nd Amendment and pro-self-defense. I also declared to all of the class that I believe every man and woman should be armed because an armed society is a polite society.

    I suppose the intent of this post is to ask you guys (who make up most of this chat) how it feels to have your exercising your right to carry and self-defense equated with being nothing more than an expression of machoness? While us women are not subject to that accusation or critique. That is not to say women aren't critiqued, just in a different way.

    Iwill see how my open declaration regardingthe 2nd Amendmment and my stance plays out in my grades I need to keep my mouth shut sometimes.


    Probably the simplest thing is to force him to justify his conclusion. Ask questions, as compared with countering with facts.

    He is a sociology professor, for crying out loud.

    "Professor, thank you for your position on men carrying arms. A very interesting idea. I admire your intellect. How on earth did you confirm that your speculation/hypothesis was the correct one out of the many possible?

    Men might be carrying guns in order to take advantage of opportunity to do violence to an innocent. Or, to commit armed robbery if they discover a till open with no other customers about. Or, being delusional, to defend themselves against imaginary dangers?

    I'm just awed at how you sorted all that out. Your method in achieving this brilliant analytic success is far more valuable than the conclusion itself. Won't you pass along to your students your method? I for one want to be able to tell people, 'I was a student of the brilliant Professor Blather.' "

    Of course, you don't say it with a sarcastic tone. You use a totally innocent tone.

    Of course, you could always just ask him if he was just mad because his gun was too small to have street cred in the faculty lounge.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    You could also ask your Soc professor to perform a quantitative survey on gun owners and ask if they are "compensating."

    When the majority say no...
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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