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Thread: Clarksville PD say OC is Illegal

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    I have a morning routine of stopping at Circle K right before I get to work to pick up a $0.69 drink. Today when I walked in, there was a cruiser in the lot, but no uniformed officer inside. As I was checking out, a larger man approached me and asked who I was with. I told him nobody. He then proceeded to inform me that OC was ILLEGAL in Indiana, regardless of where the permit was issued (in-state or otherwise). At this point, he still had not identified himself as a police officer, so I asked who HE was with, and he pointed to the cruiser outside. It appeared as though our interaction was over, so I left. I got into my car, got out of the parking space, was about to pull off, and he motioned for me to stop and walked over to the car.

    He said "We issue Concealed Weapons Permits." I asked, "Aren't they called a 'License to Carry a Handgun'?". He said that the expectation is that people will carry concealed, and that to carry in any other fashion causes their phone system to blow up from all the calls they get from concerned citizens, it is illegal to open carry a firearm in the state of Indiana, period.

    What do you guys think about this? What in the world could I be charged with, out-of-state or in-state permit? I work in IN but live in KY so I've been thinking about getting an IN permit as a 'CYA' insurance policy.

    Just be forewarned, if you're OC'ing in Clarksville and there's a SUV marked #75, OFC Greg Johnson will be around shortly to tell you that you're a criminal, but he's gonna be a nice guy and let you go.

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    I would make a polite call to the PD chief and ask him to remind his officers that OC is legal and toexpress their political or policy views on their offduty time.

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    I called the only number I could find for them, and I FINALLY got the woman to answer the phone to tell me that OC is for in-state permits only. I asked her what the law said, and she told me she didn't know. She also told me that THEY issue concealed permits. Guess it's time to get an IN permit, but I'll go to the Sheriff's Department for mine, thanks. I guess I'll be CC'ing with an empty Serpa on for now. I love peaceful protest

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    That is wrong, and they know it!

    Open Carry and Concealed Carry are both Legal in Indiana with a License to Carry a Handgun issued by Indiana or any other State in which Indiana bears reciprocity.



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    Do you have a phone number for us to call to set them straight?

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    brockgl wrote:
    Do you have a phone number for us to call to set them straight?
    (812) 288-7151

    Their website is broken, this was the only number that I could easily find.

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    Here is Indiana's law on the subject that I've found.

    IC 35-47-2-21
    Recognition of retail dealers' licenses and licenses to carry handguns issued by other states
    Sec. 21. (a) Retail dealers' licenses issued by other states or foreign countries will not be recognized in Indiana except for sales at wholesale.
    (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.



    By this, if I understand it correctly, Indiana recognizes all other state's handgun permits/licenses but only based upon the terms of said license.

    Thus, if Kentucky's permit states that it is a "Concealed Carry" permit, then the "terms thereof" would be for concealed carry only.

    So, it's possible that the officer may have been "technically" right, even though he was still an ass to harass you for it.

    He shouldn't have even stopped you to ask for I.D. unless you were under suspicion of having committed a crime.

    /shrug

    Can anyone else elaborate on this?

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    It was never established where I held a permit, just out-of-state, and they did not ID me, or ask to see my permit. I have been stopped by other Clarksville PD officers in the past, been asked for documentation, and told that it was out-of-the-ordinary, but never told illegal.

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    So you are carrying on a KY license?
    What is the name of that license and I do not mean an abbreviation. I ask because as statute includes "terms thereof" in Indiana courts mean what they say at least. Some judges may get more out of it.

    socialnewswatchDOTcom instead of Drudge

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    Already asked IN. State Police. When in In. follow In. laws whether out of state permit or in state."Terms thereof" means terms of In. Law.

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    v8shoguy wrote:
    Just be forewarned, if you're OC'ing in Clarksville and there's a SUV marked #75, OFC Greg Johnson will be around shortly to tell you that you're a criminal, but he's gonna be a nice guy and let you go.
    OFC Greg had better sit his posterior in his squad with his pie hole shut if he doesn't want to meet my lawyer friend at the federal courthouse.

    John




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    Calling the Indiana State Police tomorrow to discuss the issue with them, going to try to get an email response about the "terms thereof".

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    Just talked to the ISP firearms team. I have been told that "terms thereof" means the terms under which the license was issued. He said that the officer would have to have knowledge of KY's carry laws in order to recognize my right to OC with a KY CDWL. He said than an officer who was uncertain would most likely arrest me and let the court sort it out. I told him that the city told me that they issue concealed weapons permits, and he told me that was false, that the state only issues a LTCH. His recommendation is that I get one to remove all doubt. This is probably what I will do in the near future.

    Slightly related side note, who has the authority to "take" your LTCH? I was threatened by the officer that he could take mine, or anyone's for OC. I highly doubt that your every-day, average LEO in IN has the ability to revoke a LTCH on a whim.

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    v8shoguy wrote:
    Just talked to the ISP firearms team. I have been told that "terms thereof" means the terms under which the license was issued. He said that the officer would have to have knowledge of KY's carry laws in order to recognize my right to OC with a KY CDWL. He said than an officer who was uncertain would most likely arrest me and let the court sort it out. I told him that the city told me that they issue concealed weapons permits, and he told me that was false, that the state only issues a LTCH. His recommendation is that I get one to remove all doubt. This is probably what I will do in the near future.

    Slightly related side note, who has the authority to "take" your LTCH? I was threatened by the officer that he could take mine, or anyone's for OC. I highly doubt that your every-day, average LEO in IN has the ability to revoke a LTCH on a whim.
    The problem I have with the bold part, suppose I'm carrying on an out of state license that lets me carry into areas that Indiana law does not? What then?
    Big Gay Al
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    So if I can carry on college campus with a S.C. license,I can with an In. license? Dont think so. State police told me follow In laws

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    dadpharm wrote:
    So if I can carry on college campus with a S.C. license,I can with an In. license? Dont think so. State police told me follow In laws
    Doesn't Utah allow campus carry also? Seems to me, there needs to be some sort of clarification issued in Indiana.
    Big Gay Al
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    Hi I hope this helps. I e mailed NRA ,thinking if anyone would know they would. I receiver a reply from Kyle C. of the legal arm of NRA(ila?). I would be subject to In. laws while in IN. with an out of state permit.I will try tyo paste this reply in a minute. Tx

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    Dear Mr. Woodruff,

    Thank you for contacting NRA-ILA.

    Your permit is valid in Indiana. However, you will be under IN law not SC while you are there. I have included a link to our summary of state gun laws, I would also contact the IN State Police for info about their CCW laws.

    http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/

    Again, thank you for your inquiry and please do not hesitate to share any of your thoughts or concerns in the future.

    Hey it worked.

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    http://www.ag.state.nd.us/bci/cw/reciprocity.htm This may help for a general discussion of reciprosity

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    dadpharm wrote:
    Hi I hope this helps. I e mailed NRA ,thinking if anyone would know they would. I receiver a reply from Kyle C. of the legal arm of NRA(ila?). I would be subject to In. laws while in IN. with an out of state permit.I will try tyo paste this reply in a minute. Tx
    Well, it's nice to know what the NRA says, but the people I worry about are the ones that enforce the law, and seems to me, there's some difference of opinion on what laws apply to out of state permit holders.
    Big Gay Al
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    v8shoguy wrote:
    Just talked to the ISP firearms team. I have been told that "terms thereof" means the terms under which the license was issued. He said that the officer would have to have knowledge of KY's carry laws in order to recognize my right to OC with a KY CDWL. He said than an officer who was uncertain would most likely arrest me and let the court sort it out. I told him that the city told me that they issue concealed weapons permits, and he told me that was false, that the state only issues a LTCH. His recommendation is that I get one to remove all doubt. This is probably what I will do in the near future.

    Slightly related side note, who has the authority to "take" your LTCH? I was threatened by the officer that he could take mine, or anyone's for OC. I highly doubt that your every-day, average LEO in IN has the ability to revoke a LTCH on a whim.
    The problem I have with the bold part, suppose I'm carrying on an out of state license that lets me carry into areas that Indiana law does not? What then?
    BGA,

    I emailed MSP for the same thing (me carrying in Michigan on an Indiana LTCH), the response I got was that I would have to abide by Michigan law as to where I could carry. IANAL, but one could extrapolate the same would hold true for out of staters carrying in Indiana, you must follow Indiana law regardless of where you are allowed to carry in your home state. For example, in Indiana, I can CC or OC in a bar where more than half of their revenue is derived from open glass alcohol sales. In Michigan, I could not CC.

    Hopes this helps.

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    BGordon42 wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    v8shoguy wrote:
    Just talked to the ISP firearms team. I have been told that "terms thereof" means the terms under which the license was issued. He said that the officer would have to have knowledge of KY's carry laws in order to recognize my right to OC with a KY CDWL. He said than an officer who was uncertain would most likely arrest me and let the court sort it out. I told him that the city told me that they issue concealed weapons permits, and he told me that was false, that the state only issues a LTCH. His recommendation is that I get one to remove all doubt. This is probably what I will do in the near future.

    Slightly related side note, who has the authority to "take" your LTCH? I was threatened by the officer that he could take mine, or anyone's for OC. I highly doubt that your every-day, average LEO in IN has the ability to revoke a LTCH on a whim.
    The problem I have with the bold part, suppose I'm carrying on an out of state license that lets me carry into areas that Indiana law does not? What then?
    BGA,

    I emailed MSP for the same thing (me carrying in Michigan on an Indiana LTCH), the response I got was that I would have to abide by Michigan law as to where I could carry. IANAL, but one could extrapolate the same would hold true for out of staters carrying in Indiana, you must follow Indiana law regardless of where you are allowed to carry in your home state. For example, in Indiana, I can CC or OC in a bar where more than half of their revenue is derived from open glass alcohol sales. In Michigan, I could not CC.

    Hopes this helps.
    Oh, I get it. Really I do. But I've seen threads posted on the subject of carrying in Indiana on an out of state permit/license, and depending on which state official you ask, you either have to carrying according to Indiana rules, or the rules as written on the out of state permit/license.

    For instance, most of us know that in Indiana you need a permit/license to OC as well as to CC, since the license is simply to carry a handgun. Since we don't need a license to OC in Michigan, our state issued license is called a "Concealed Pistol License." I've been told that some LEOs in Indiana interpret this to mean us Michiganders can't OC in Indiana with our CPL.

    I've also read messages posted by others, who were told they had to abide by Michigan laws with regard to carrying in an establishment that serves alcohol.

    My whole thing is, it seems to me that part of the law on reciprocity needs some clarification for the education of those state officials that are looking for ways to try to screw me out of my hard earned (and sparse) money.

    Big Gay Al
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    BGordon42 wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    v8shoguy wrote:
    Just talked to the ISP firearms team. I have been told that "terms thereof" means the terms under which the license was issued. He said that the officer would have to have knowledge of KY's carry laws in order to recognize my right to OC with a KY CDWL. He said than an officer who was uncertain would most likely arrest me and let the court sort it out. I told him that the city told me that they issue concealed weapons permits, and he told me that was false, that the state only issues a LTCH. His recommendation is that I get one to remove all doubt. This is probably what I will do in the near future.

    Slightly related side note, who has the authority to "take" your LTCH? I was threatened by the officer that he could take mine, or anyone's for OC. I highly doubt that your every-day, average LEO in IN has the ability to revoke a LTCH on a whim.
    The problem I have with the bold part, suppose I'm carrying on an out of state license that lets me carry into areas that Indiana law does not? What then?
    BGA,

    I emailed MSP for the same thing (me carrying in Michigan on an Indiana LTCH), the response I got was that I would have to abide by Michigan law as to where I could carry. IANAL, but one could extrapolate the same would hold true for out of staters carrying in Indiana, you must follow Indiana law regardless of where you are allowed to carry in your home state. For example, in Indiana, I can CC or OC in a bar where more than half of their revenue is derived from open glass alcohol sales. In Michigan, I could not CC.

    Hopes this helps.
    Oh, I get it. Really I do. But I've seen threads posted on the subject of carrying in Indiana on an out of state permit/license, and depending on which state official you ask, you either have to carrying according to Indiana rules, or the rules as written on the out of state permit/license.

    For instance, most of us know that in Indiana you need a permit/license to OC as well as to CC, since the license is simply to carry a handgun. Since we don't need a license to OC in Michigan, our state issued license is called a "Concealed Pistol License." I've been told that some LEOs in Indiana interpret this to mean us Michiganders can't OC in Indiana with our CPL.

    I've also read messages posted by others, who were told they had to abide by Michigan laws with regard to carrying in an establishment that serves alcohol.

    My whole thing is, it seems to me that part of the law on reciprocity needs some clarification for the education of those state officials that are looking for ways to try to screw me out of my hard earned (and sparse) money.
    Gotcha. I understand your point.




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    Hi In another effort to find the correct interpretion,I e mailed congressman Hill,my daughters house rep in Jeffersonville,IN. He called(orrather his rep) and said I had to abid by In. law, not S>C> I guess this muddies the water even more. Tx Ferank

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    PS should be Frank

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