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Thread: Suspected Burglar/Tresspaser Shot in Olympia

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    Olympia police respond to shot fired on McCormick Avenue


    A homeowner in the 900 block of McCormick Avenue has told Olympia police that he shot an intruder once outside his home after he woke up to the sound of breaking glass around 2 a.m. today, according to Olympia Police Lt. Jim Costa.


    Read more athttp://www.theolympian.com/2010/04/21/1213757/olympia-police-respond-to-shots.html



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    Interesting article.

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    Umm, that sounds more than casually cagey. I don' t think this is gonna go well for the homeowner, no matter what happened.

    If we take the article at its word (yeah, I know) the intruder hadn't committed a felony, and was leaving the scene. That's not a clean shoot.

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    Legally, he could get charged. Unless a court finds that a trespasser being cornered represents an immediate threat, without a visible weapon, then this guy fired upon someone without being in immediate danger, judging by the post.
    But, just because there may be legal grounds for it, doesn't mean charges will be filed. Prosecutors are frequently sympathetic with defenders on their own property, even it was technically outside the law - remember that guy in Yakima a couple months ago who fired at fleeing burglars, and the county would not press charges.
    If the guy dies, he may be in for some @#$% though.

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    cynicist wrote:
    Legally, he could get charged. Unless a court finds that a trespasser being cornered represents an immediate threat, without a visible weapon, then this guy fired upon someone without being in immediate danger, judging by the post.
    But, just because there may be legal grounds for it, doesn't mean charges will be filed. Prosecutors are frequently sympathetic with defenders on their own property, even it was technically outside the law - remember that guy in Yakima a couple months ago who fired at fleeing burglars, and the county would not press charges.
    Oh, really?????

    I'm sure that will assuage the troubled and fearful heart of Mr. Homeowner/Shooter.

    Not.

    I'm surer that Mr. H/S is wishing that he would have heard of: HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense© which, if adhered to, would have probably changed his actions yesterday morning. It is, for all of you out there that are affected by this wonderful conceptualization:is:

    It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.


    HPCSD©is a good thing to know about.



    cynicist wrote:
    If the guy dies, he may be in for some @#$% though.
    "May?"

    I wonder if Mr. H/S will be calmed by that assessment...

    Remember the old saying:

    Shoot in haste. Repent in leisure.

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    This is definitely one of those, "Don't talk, get a lawyer" nightmares.

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    Norman wrote:
    This is definitely one of those, "Don't talk, get a lawyer" nightmares.
    They were playing the 911 tape on KOMO yesterday. The guy sounds older, and in a very calm voice says "I armed myself", and "I shot him". No sense of "OMG WHAT HAVE I DONE?" or panic, or stress. Just very calm, matter-of-fact. It was clear (to me) that he didn't think he did anything wrong. Very "old-school" as in "If you're on my property at 2am, I shoot first and ask questions later".

    (edit to add conclusion in blue text)

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    I don't see how the homeowners life was threatened, I think HankT' postulate will be true in this case. However, if the burglar were rushing him when he shot, or if the burglar had reached into a pocket I think it would be a different story. This would be a great time to say "Keep your hands where I can see them, stay where you are", but not to just shoot a man. Then again, maybe the homeowner was rushed or the burglar did reach into his pocket, we don't have all of the details. We'll see what the DA thinks.

    You need to define unarmed before I accept your postulate HankT. Or change your postulate to
    "It is a bad strategy to shoot a person who is not presenting a credible threat to your life."
    Don't forget about the man who was killed by a man with no arms, headbutted to death.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20844553/

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    joshcdc wrote:
    "It is a bad strategy to shoot a person who is not presenting a credible threat to your life."
    Or someone else's life.

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    I believe in this State he was not required to retreat in his own home. However, this story needs more information.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    Aaron 1124 "Or someone else's life."
    Yes of course, thank you for correcting me.


    Here is what the law says.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite

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    Norman wrote:
    This is definitely one of those, "Don't talk, get a lawyer" nightmares.
    Actually, it's one of those "How could I have been so unprepared and untrained to shoot" nightmares.

    Which precipitates the "Don't talk, get a lawyer" imperative...



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    HankT wrote:
    Norman wrote:
    This is definitely one of those, "Don't talk, get a lawyer" nightmares.
    Actually, it's one of those "How could I have been so unprepared and untrained to shoot" nightmares.

    Which precipitates the "Don't talk, get a lawyer" imperative...

    BINGO We must take the position of "Taking Ownership Of Our Choices" and Preparing Ourselves In Advance.

    Not doing so is irresponsible.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regardless of how he got there or how unprepared he was, he laid out a pretty lame story to the cops, at least from what the paper is publishing. Lawyer time!

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    HankT wrote:
    Norman wrote:
    This is definitely one of those, "Don't talk, get a lawyer" nightmares.
    Actually, it's one of those "How could I have been so unprepared and untrained to shoot" nightmares.

    Which precipitates the "Don't talk, get a lawyer" imperative...

    Here you go, Hank. Someone had to do it.


    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    You need to define unarmed
    No, what s/he needs to do is go away, and what we need to do is ignore.

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    ok, ok. Notice how he ignored me despite me directly asking him for a response. HankT ignores logic, so of course his postulate is invalid. I guess I can ignore him too.

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    joshcdc wrote:
    ok, ok. Notice how he ignored me despite me directly asking him for a response. HankT ignores logic, so of course his postulate is invalid. I guess I can ignore him too.
    I'm beginning to think Hank T sympathizes with an organization that starts with C and ends with easefire.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Killchain when everyone is discussing the topic and you disagree and cannot debate it you bring out your trolling accusations.

    Stop crying Troll and get on with the discussion.



    Nice lightness of you though!
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    The homeowner, by his own admission, shot the guy as he was trying to get away. Where is the threat?

    I think the homeowner screwed the pooch on this one.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    killchain wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Norman wrote:
    This is definitely one of those, "Don't talk, get a lawyer" nightmares.
    Actually, it's one of those "How could I have been so unprepared and untrained to shoot" nightmares.

    Which precipitates the "Don't talk, get a lawyer" imperative...

    Here you go, Hank. Someone had to do it.
    killchain wrote:
    I'm beginning to think Hank T sympathizes with an organization that starts with C and ends with easefire.
    What to you think about this case, KC?

    What's your analysis? Good shoot? Bad? Do we need to support the homeowner/shooter? Or criticize him?

    Articulate your position, please.

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