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Thread: what to do IN the car

  1. #1
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    I understand that you cannot OP inside your car. What are the options if any that I would do with it once I got to my car. Can I place my holstered weapon inside my backpack, glove box, or does it need to be placed into a gun case?

    Thanks so much,
    smith

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Completely unloaded, and then is a gun case BEFORE you get in the car.

    You don't have to unload the mag, but mag cannot be in the firearm if there are rounds in the mag. No rounds in the chamber.



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    I,too, have a question similar to smith's.What about the purses and fanny packs that are on the market and exspressly designed to contain a firearm? Would they be considered a lawful encasement? Could you carry a firearm in a school zone if the fiream was unloaded? The school zone statute only requires that the firearm be unloaded and encased. No definition is given in the statute regarding manner of encasement. Seems like encasing a firearm in a specifically designed fanny pack or purse would be no different than encasing the firearm (handgun) in a "rug" or in the plastic box most new handguns are packaged in when you buy one. Also would it be legal to transport a firearm in one of those fanny packs or purses ina vehicle? Seems they would meet the requirements of statute 167.31. I think they would be more convenient than an open holster. The firearm and loaded magazine could be carried in the same encasement and be readily available if needed. What little case law I can find seems to imply that the Wisconsin courts don't consider a firearm concealed if it is carried in a lawful encasement.

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    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    Wisconsin Statute 167.31 covers vehicle transportation (vehicle carry prohibition).
    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0167.pdf

    Wisconsin Statute 941.23 covers concealed weapons (concealed weapon prohibition).
    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0941.pdf

    State v. Fry: Court determined a locked glove compartment wasn't a proper gun case.
    State v. Keith: Court added "out of reach" requirement to 941.23.
    State v. Walls: Court added a strict "ordinary view" requirement to 941.23.
    State v. Alloy: Court confirmed their conviction to "out of reach."

    There seems to be a trend in legislative and court decisions, which is why many people lock the gun in the trunk.

    Brad Krause
    Instructor, Wisconsin Civil Rights Advocate, and someone who still plants trees armed
    Notice: Not legal or other advice


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    In re the OP; § 167.31 is not an exception to the elements of § 941.23.
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    I-ANAL and a coward, it will be interesting when a court compares and contrasts 'encased' and 'hidden'.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Present company excepted, of course. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA ******* damn the Obmamnation and its thug unions.

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    Brad Krause: Thanks for all the cases you cite. I have spent time reviewing them. What interests me is that they were all decided before such things as purses and fanny packs specifically designed for the encasement of firearms existed. I wonder how Kieth would be decided today if she had such a purse.

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    I really dont think the out of reach law is valid. But still I would not conceal a cased gun, like having a gun case under the seat or glovebox, it just looks bad and the wording there is very strange.

    There are many vehicles that only have a front seat or cab like a truck, and there are motorcycles and atv's which I see people hauling gun cases on them all the time.

    The title of 941.23 is carrying concealed weapon

    If it is unloaded and cased it is not a concealed weapon, it is a properly cased gun.

    Yes we have some strange laws, like local ordinances on the books banning open carry, which are not enforceable.

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    Oh, well, then everything is just fine.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

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    If you want to be exempt from any and all potential troubles with transporting a firearm in Wisconsin then one should follow the Federal Law.

    TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 44, § 926A

    § 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms


    Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

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    Uziel Gal wrote:
    If you want to be exempt from any and all potential troubles with transporting a firearm in Wisconsin then one should follow the Federal Law.

    TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 44, § 926A

    § 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms


    Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

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    Doug

    "from anyplace to anyplace" The heading "Interstate" does not apply the law only to travel between two or more states but to travel intrastate as well.

    Uziel

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    Oh, well, thank you counselor. Why bother with Wisconsin law at all? Or the different words, like ya know?

    I think you should give someone lots of money for gun carry training.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

  13. #13
    McX
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    soft sided zipper case constitutes encased?

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    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    From court history, a handgun fanny pack will be treated like a soft-side zippered case, which is to say fully zippered and out of reach has been considered legal.

    "Convenient" seems to bother the court, "inaccessable" seems to be what they want.

    The theory on the part of the government seems to be, "If we take the tools away from criminals they won't commit crimes. Therefore, by making possessing a gun a crime, we decrease criminal activity." This line of reasoning should make prisons exceptionally safe, especially for employees.

    Notice: Not legal advice.

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    Found this interesting case while researching case law on concealed weapons.

    State v. Asfoor Jan 18 1977

    Asfoor also argues that the evidence was insufficient to
    support the conviction of the charge of going armed with
    a weapon. The basis for this argument is that because
    Asfoor disarmed Schubert he could not be found guilty of
    going armed with a concealed weapon. This is one
    reasonable interpretation of the evidence. Another is
    that a man who places a .357 Magnum pistol on the
    floorboard of his car as he is driving is going armed
    with a concealed weapon, or that even one who disarms
    another but places the weapon within his reach,
    underneath a car seat, and remains in the car is going
    armed with a concealed weapon. This court will not retry
    the case. The evidence, as to both charges, was
    sufficient to support the convictions.

    Asfoor predates Keith by 16 years.

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    Uziel Gal wrote:
    Doug

    "from anyplace to anyplace" The heading "Interstate" does not apply the law only to travel between two or more states but to travel intrastate as well.

    Uziel
    Per a phone conversation with the BATFE field office in Milwaukee....

    The Fed. statute ONLY applies to the transport of firearms ACCROSS state lines, and specifically NOT to INTRAstate transport.

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    Captain Nemo wrote:
    Found this interesting case while researching case law on concealed weapons.

    State v. Asfoor Jan 18 1977

    Asfoor also argues that the evidence was insufficient to
    support the conviction of the charge of going armed with
    a weapon. The basis for this argument is that because
    Asfoor disarmed Schubert he could not be found guilty of
    going armed with a concealed weapon. This is one
    reasonable interpretation of the evidence. Another is
    that a man who places a .357 Magnum pistol on the
    floorboard of his car as he is driving is going armed
    with a concealed weapon, or that even one who disarms
    another but places the weapon within his reach,
    underneath a car seat, and remains in the car is going
    armed with a concealed weapon. This court will not retry
    the case. The evidence, as to both charges, was
    sufficient to support the convictions.

    Asfoor predates Keith by 16 years.
    In the case law you are reciting, you fail to understand that the firearm was not in a case. so it does not apply when transporting a properly cased weapon that is unloaded.

  18. #18
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    That is true, I imagine if the loaded uncased gun was in the trunk, the charge would have been something to the likes of having a loaded uncased gun in the vehicle. Not concealed, as it would be out of reach. My opinion.

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