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Thread: Arizona CCW, yes this a Va topic

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if Arizona just eliminated the statute or did they amend it?
    I'm interested in a similar bill here. I'm tired of waiting.

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    In the most technical sense, Arizona repealed the requirement of a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon by amending the misconduct involving weapons statute. I suggest reading the Senate Engrossed Version of AZ SB 1108.

    SB 1108 replaced the permit requirement in ARS 13-3102(A)(1)-(2) with provisions retaining the prohibition on concealed carry by individuals under 21 years old; creating a new offense of carrying a concealed weapon in the furtherance of a seriosu offens,e violent crime, or felony; and creating a duty to accurately answer an LEO's inquiry regarding whether a person is legally carrying a concealed weapon. Each of these provisions carries different penalties. It also relaxed the training requirements to obtain a CWP and made some technical corrections to related statutes.

    SB 1108 did not repeal the requirement of a permit to carry a concealed handgun in a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Thanks!

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    Since your OP concerned translating this into Virginia, "Alaska carry" legislation has been previously introduced in Virginia: 2006 HB 1105& 2007 HB 2405.

    These bills duplicated Alaska's law, including a duty to inform & consent to disarm. I am sure that the tighter language Arizona adopted on these issues can be incorporated into future legislation, assuming one does not propose a simple repeal of Subsection A of Va. Code § 18.2-308.

    Note that due to numerous other firearms related-statutes in Virginia incorporating by reference the exceptions contained in subsections B and C of Va. Code§ 18.2-308, a bill drafter would need to be careful in how he or she drafts the bill to avoid some very nasty, unintended consequences.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    WVCDL wrote:
    Note that due to numerous other firearms related-statutes in Virginia incorporating by reference the exceptions contained in subsections B and C of Va. Code§ 18.2-308, a bill drafter would need to be careful in how he or she drafts the bill to avoid some very nasty, unintended consequences.
    I have someone to do the legislative review for me. I just need to plug in the desired result and then review what she puts together.

    I have two patrons as long as it's reasonable. I have a couple of months to work on this and right now I want to see how McDonnell handles the VDOF and other issues. At least I know what his plan is...I just don't believe it.

    There's also Marsh. This bill would have a very small chance of getting through the first time to start with. If the Senate doesn't come up with a plan that they intend to enforce, to avoid the death committee, it has no chance of any consideration.

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    Yes I thought seriously about making a thread about this. I think we need to try to get a similar bill passed here next year.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    hometheaterman wrote:
    Yes I thought seriously about making a thread about this. I think we need to try to get a similar bill passed here next year.
    Before you really get gung ho on it, there are a couple of problems.
    The biggest is there won't be a lot of support from the gun lobby and I imagine open hostility from the NRA.

    Unless McDonnell muzzles them again, the state police will be singing blood in the streets and the MMM's will develop the vapors.

    Most legislation is decided in private and there will be private opposition from some pro gun groups that would surprise you. There is money in CHP's.

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    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    Yes I thought seriously about making a thread about this. I think we need to try to get a similar bill passed here next year.
    Before you really get gung ho on it, there are a couple of problems.
    The biggest is there won't be a lot of support from the gun lobby and I imagine open hostility from the NRA.

    Unless McDonnell muzzles them again, the state police will be singing blood in the streets and the MMM's will develop the vapors.

    Most legislation is decided in private and there will be private opposition from some pro gun groups that would surprise you. There is money in CHP's.
    I thought about that some earlier today before I even saw this thread. I was thinking the major reason they aren't going to want to do away with CHP's is the income from them.

    While I don't have a ton of faith that this would pass I still have hope that maybe it will. If not next year maybe in the next couple of years.

    Was the NRA supportive of this in AZ? I didn't follow it very closely.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    hometheaterman wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    Was the NRA supportive of this in AZ? I didn't follow it very closely.
    No, they were not and from what I gather from people that followed it closely, there was almost open warfare with the NRA.

    You can pretty well assure yourself it wouldn't pass the first or second time around. One thing is certain though, it never will pass if it's not introduced and every year that we give more to the CHP side of the legislation, the closer we get to doing away with open carry and the chance of unpermitted CC.

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    How would Constitutional Carry in Virginia effect reciprocity in other states that honor Virginia CHP's?
    Bitka Sve Reava!
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ODA 226 wrote:
    How would Constitutional Carry in Virginia effect reciprocity in other states that honor Virginia CHP's?
    That's one of the pitfalls WVCDL was talking about.
    CHP's would still exist for those that wanted them.

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    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    Was the NRA supportive of this in AZ? I didn't follow it very closely.
    No, they were not and from what I gather from people that followed it closely, there was almost open warfare with the NRA.

    You can pretty well assure yourself it wouldn't pass the first or second time around. One thing is certain though, it never will pass if it's not introduced and every year that we give more to the CHP side of the legislation, the closer we get to doing away with open carry and the chance of unpermitted CC.
    HB 1108was infact backed by the NRA. Just for accuracy.

    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=13681

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    peter nap wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    How would Constitutional Carry in Virginia effect reciprocity in other states that honor Virginia CHP's?
    That's one of the pitfalls WVCDL was talking about.
    CHP's would still exist for those that wanted them.
    That is how VT/AK do it, those who still want or need the Government permission slip can still get one.


    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Agent19 wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    How would Constitutional Carry in Virginia effect reciprocity in other states that honor Virginia CHP's?
    That's one of the pitfalls WVCDL was talking about.
    CHP's would still exist for those that wanted them.
    That is how VT/AK do it, those who still want or need the Government permission slip can still get one.

    I didn't know VT did that...for non-res permits from some states, they have a special section for VT residents, they basically have their local CLEO sign a statement saying the applicant is in good standing and not a criminal.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    vamr wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Was the NRA supportive of this in AZ? I didn't follow it very closely.
    No, they were not and from what I gather from people that followed it closely, there was almost open warfare with the NRA.

    You can pretty well assure yourself it wouldn't pass the first or second time around. One thing is certain though, it never will pass if it's not introduced and every year that we give more to the CHP side of the legislation, the closer we get to doing away with open carry and the chance of unpermitted CC.
    HB 1108was infact backed by the NRA. Just for accuracy.

    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=13681
    Everything I read on this bill (now law) is that the NRA fought it tooth and nail.
    After they fact, the NRA took as much credit as they could steal or claim. The above link is one such example.

    Kudos to the AzCDL for all of their hard work - it paid off.
    http://www.azcdl.org/

    The new law does have several things worth pointing out. A permit is still available for those wishing to take advantage of reciprocity with other states. You cannot carry in an establishment that serves alcohol w/o a permit.

    Otherwise unlicensed/non-permitted OC or CC is permitted by any qualified/legal citizen anywhere not restricted by law. Even the HuffPost concedes this.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_541445.html

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    nova wrote: snip

    I didn't know VT did that...
    VT's permit is pretty useless for reciporcity.
    Only a few(2-3)states honor VT permits (AKnot included no permit needed, AZ when that law takes effect) and one of those (FL) only honors Resident permits.


    http://www.atg.state.vt.us/issues/gun-laws.php


    http://www.usacarry.com/vermont_conc...aled_carry_map

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    I checked your links. I found nothing stating that the NRA opposed this bill. Nor did I see anything stating that they headed it up or initiated it.

    Thelink I postedwas mearly saying that they backed the bill not taking credit for it



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    Reciprocity agreements shouldn't change at all because Arizona and Alaska still have permit systems. The only thing that may change those agreements if the conditions of obtaining the CCW change. Based on what I personally know (not a lawyer) the requirements to obtain a CCW if you want one do not change with the new Carry Bill, it is no longer a requirement to obtain one in order to legally conceal in the State of Arizona.

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    A nice little read if it don't put you to sleep. http://lockdoc1.wordpress.com/2010/0...-for-firearms/

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    vamr wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Was the NRA supportive of this in AZ? I didn't follow it very closely.
    No, they were not and from what I gather from people that followed it closely, there was almost open warfare with the NRA.

    You can pretty well assure yourself it wouldn't pass the first or second time around. One thing is certain though, it never will pass if it's not introduced and every year that we give more to the CHP side of the legislation, the closer we get to doing away with open carry and the chance of unpermitted CC.
    HB 1108was infact backed by the NRA. Just for accuracy.

    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=13681
    Everything I read on this bill (now law) is that the NRA fought it tooth and nail.
    After they fact, the NRA took as much credit as they could steal or claim. The above link is one such example.

    Kudos to the AzCDL for all of their hard work - it paid off.
    http://www.azcdl.org/

    The new law does have several things worth pointing out. A permit is still available for those wishing to take advantage of reciprocity with other states. You cannot carry in an establishment that serves alcohol w/o a permit.

    Otherwise unlicensed/non-permitted OC or CC is permitted by any qualified/legal citizen anywhere not restricted by law. Even the HuffPost concedes this.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_541445.html

    Yata hey
    Let's also look at the fact that under the new AZ law, law enforcement can (and most assurdedly will) disarm you for the duration of their encounter with you. Knowing LEO's as I do (having been one), if they can, they will. Not so sure we really want that here.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    vamr wrote:
    I checked your links. I found nothing stating that the NRA opposed this bill. Nor did I see anything stating that they headed it up or initiated it.

    Thelink I postedwas mearly saying that they backed the bill not taking credit for it
    The links were not provided to demonstrate opposition to the bill.
    Feel free to contact http://www.azcdl.org/ and ask them yourself - I followed this over the last 4+ years.

    The NRA traditionally says they backed a bill after someone else does the work - that is not earth shaking news. A prime example is the recent NPS rule change that was originated and pushed by VCDL when no one else would. The NRA was no big help in Iowa either, though they now bask in the glory.

    The great thing about opinions is that they can live and thrive here. You like the NRA - great. I can tolerate them and feel great disappointment that they have not fully utilized their strength. Sometimes they are a distinct hindrance.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    vamr wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    Was the NRA supportive of this in AZ? I didn't follow it very closely.
    No, they were not and from what I gather from people that followed it closely, there was almost open warfare with the NRA.

    You can pretty well assure yourself it wouldn't pass the first or second time around. One thing is certain though, it never will pass if it's not introduced and every year that we give more to the CHP side of the legislation, the closer we get to doing away with open carry and the chance of unpermitted CC.
    HB 1108was infact backed by the NRA. Just for accuracy.

    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=13681
    The Arizona Citizen's Defense League (http://www.azcdl.org/) invested a lot of time and money and rallying of the troops which the NRA glossed over in their press releases.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Vanns40 wrote:
    Let's also look at the fact that under the new AZ law, law enforcement can (and most assurdedly will) disarm you for the duration of their encounter with you. Knowing LEO's as I do (having been one), if they can, they will. Not so sure we really want that here.
    That really doesn't happen that much here, while I have not been stopped in like 25 years friends/coworkers that have been stoped have been told "just don't reach for it" none have had it taken for safe keeping. But then we generally don't get stopped a lot so not a real good cross section of Arizona traffic stops.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Vanns40 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    vamr wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    hometheaterman wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Was the NRA supportive of this in AZ? I didn't follow it very closely.
    No, they were not and from what I gather from people that followed it closely, there was almost open warfare with the NRA.

    You can pretty well assure yourself it wouldn't pass the first or second time around. One thing is certain though, it never will pass if it's not introduced and every year that we give more to the CHP side of the legislation, the closer we get to doing away with open carry and the chance of unpermitted CC.
    HB 1108was infact backed by the NRA. Just for accuracy.

    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=13681
    Everything I read on this bill (now law) is that the NRA fought it tooth and nail.
    After they fact, the NRA took as much credit as they could steal or claim. The above link is one such example.

    Kudos to the AzCDL for all of their hard work - it paid off.
    http://www.azcdl.org/

    The new law does have several things worth pointing out. A permit is still available for those wishing to take advantage of reciprocity with other states. You cannot carry in an establishment that serves alcohol w/o a permit.

    Otherwise unlicensed/non-permitted OC or CC is permitted by any qualified/legal citizen anywhere not restricted by law. Even the HuffPost concedes this.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_541445.html

    Yata hey
    Let's also look at the fact that under the new AZ law, law enforcement can (and most assurdedly will) disarm you for the duration of their encounter with you. Knowing LEO's as I do (having been one), if they can, they will. Not so sure we really want that here.
    They already do Officer safety:X

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