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Thread: California fatal BART shooting officer looses job

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Apparently, this is the second time this has happened: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/23...es-job/?hpt=T2
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    If I had to bet money, I'd say that the two officers let go engaged in feats of "creative writing" in their official reports. When found out, that makes them "instant reasonable doubt, just add water".

    I'll bet it's hard to be a cop if no prosecutor will EVER let you testify under oath. And no sane prosecutor would EVER put either of those cops on the stand if there's documented proof of falsification on their part. Any defense attorney would be salivating at the chance of getting either of them on the stand for cross.

    Actions have consequences.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Gosh. Kill someone for jollies, lose your job.

    I mean, that's sooo harsh. The rest of us only get executed by the State for it... But getting fired, damn. That's just brutal. How will he ever live with himself; the rest of us get killed so we don't have to. The luxuries of being a common murderer instead of a uniformed one, those cops really have it tough.

    [/sarcasm]
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    Here's another story on it:

    http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/polit...-91870719.html

    The really messed up part is this line: "Grant was allegedly shot by another former BART police officer, Johannes Mehserle."

    How in the ****ing world can they say that Grant was "allegedly" shot by Mehserle, when there are over a dozen witnesses, AND a cellphone video showing officer Mehserle shooting Grant while he was laying down on the ground wearing handcuffs???? I have seen the video footage. "Allegedly"-NOTHING!!! There is absolutely NOTHING alleged about it!

    The video in question is mentioned in the above article, but it doesn't mention that the shooting is captured in the video - only that "On cell phone video from that night you can see and hear Pirone shouting profanities at several people who were detained after being taken off the BARTtrain." WOW.... They left off the most important part!

    Do a Youtube or Google search for "Largest Street Gang in America" - the cellphone video footage of the shooting is included in the documentary.


    Carry on!

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    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    Gosh. Kill someone for jollies, lose your job.

    I mean, that's sooo harsh. The rest of us only get executed by the State for it... But getting fired, damn. That's just brutal. How will he ever live with himself; the rest of us get killed so we don't have to. The luxuries of being a common murderer instead of a uniformed one, those cops really have it tough.

    [/sarcasm]
    The CNN article in the OP is focusing on Officer Tony Pirone, who is NOT the officer who pulled the trigger. Pirone was just another one of the officers who was on the scene. The officer who pulled the trigger was Johannes Mehserle, who supposedly meant to pull his taser, but accidentally pulled his service pistol.
    Carry on!

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Ruger wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    Gosh. Kill someone for jollies, lose your job.

    I mean, that's sooo harsh. The rest of us only get executed by the State for it... But getting fired, damn. That's just brutal. How will he ever live with himself; the rest of us get killed so we don't have to. The luxuries of being a common murderer instead of a uniformed one, those cops really have it tough.

    [/sarcasm]
    The CNN article in the OP is focusing on Officer Tony Pirone, who is NOT the officer who pulled the trigger. Pirone was just another one of the officers who was on the scene. The officer who pulled the trigger was Johannes Mehserle, who supposedly meant to pull his taser, but accidentally pulled his service pistol.
    Oh, that's an even better story...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Just another example of the harsh truths of the blue line of defiance.
    And people still wonder why cops are viewed with an us vs. them mentality.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Toad wrote:
    Just another example of the harsh truths of the blue line of defiance.
    And people still wonder why cops are viewed with an us vs. them mentality.
    I think the us vs them attitude has more to do with the fact that they are taught that every day in their little academies. Oh, and that people with a freedom hating attitude are specifically sought out and encouraged in the recruiting process...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  9. #9
    McX
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    the guys i knew who were sucks, hoods, and punks in high school grew up to be sucks, hoods, and punks............with badges.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I think the cart is in front of the horse.

    There are ****** bags in every society.

    The root issue with the Police often being these, is the recruiting process. Those government entities who perform the recruiting and training process, select just that kind of person.

    It's easier to sit behind a desk and have pawns who do your bidding naturally, without your encouragement.

    It isn't that Cops are crap. There is nothing about being a Cop that makes a person good or bad. It's that those ****** bags are singled out and given the job.

    The dregs of society are hand-picked to do the job by Politicians who like not getting their hands dirty. They seek out the lowest of the low, and pin a badge on it.

    I'm sure there are exceptions. And I'll be sure to point one out to prove I'm not a Cop Basher; if I ever find one. I don't exactly go out of my way to shake hands with them, so I won't be meeting very many. As such, the odds are pretty low it'll ever happen. I don't go around putting my hand on red hot stove burners with the hope that one of them is really just painted that color and not actually going to burn the crap out of me.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Ruger wrote: "Pirone's partner Domenici was fired last month. Her attorney told the Chronicle she lost her job because of the way she recounted what happened that night to investigators and in court testimony."

    My suspicions confirmed...
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Deanimator wrote:
    Ruger wrote: "Pirone's partner Domenici was fired last month. Her attorney told the Chronicle she lost her job because of the way she recounted what happened that night to investigators and in court testimony."

    My suspicions confirmed...
    It's the same thing that hooks 'the perps' they arrest; talking too much, and telling a different story.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.

    My impression of LEOs is that they are generally more level-headed and civil than most folks you meet on the street.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.

    My impression of LEOs is that they are generally more level-headed and civil than most folks you meet on the street.
    It may seem that way or even be that way in Alabama these days.

    Try living in Chicago for a while.

    Trying to kick a barmaid to death or sapping an old man who's handcuffed to a wheelchair and who was just stabbed, tend only to be considered "level-headed and civil" where Mullah Omar hangs out.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Deanimator wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.

    My impression of LEOs is that they are generally more level-headed and civil than most folks you meet on the street.
    It may seem that way or even be that way in Alabama these days.

    Try living in Chicago for a while.

    Trying to kick a barmaid to death or sapping an old man who's handcuffed to a wheelchair and who was just stabbed, tend only to be considered "level-headed and civil" where Mullah Omar hangs out.
    There are bad cops, just like there are bad civilians. Unfortunately, those are the only ones you see on TV.

    Again, can anyone support the contentions the LEAs are deliberately recruiting bad folks?

  16. #16
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.

    My impression of LEOs is that they are generally more level-headed and civil than most folks you meet on the street.
    It may seem that way or even be that way in Alabama these days.

    Try living in Chicago for a while.

    Trying to kick a barmaid to death or sapping an old man who's handcuffed to a wheelchair and who was just stabbed, tend only to be considered "level-headed and civil" where Mullah Omar hangs out.
    There are bad cops, just like there are bad civilians. Unfortunately, those are the only ones you see on TV.

    Again, can anyone support the contentions the LEAs are deliberately recruiting bad folks?
    Given the VERY public shows of support for both of the cops who committed the above described acts, they must tend to congregate in Chicago. If a "bad" cop saps an old man with a knife wound to the abdomen, are the cops who cheerlead him "good"?

    There are bad cops... and apparently they have a lot of fans in their "community".
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    eye95 wrote:
    LEAs are deliberately recruiting bad folks?
    Begs the question (technically speaking), what are "bad folks", then maybe there can be an answer. The law abides only the law abiding.

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    begging the question

    Being pedantic with the pedant.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.
    I went to the academy myself for 3 weeks. That's all I could take of the hatred for 'civilians.' Disgusting. they spent most of the time bitching about the Bill of Rights, and teaching things like how to spit in someone's face, so they'll raise their hands to wipe it away or block it, than you can beat the living crap out of them by claiming they were going to hit you.

    I had a problem with that.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.
    I went to the academy myself for 3 weeks. That's all I could take of the hatred for 'civilians.' Disgusting. they spent most of the time bitching about the Bill of Rights, and teaching things like how to spit in someone's face, so they'll raise their hands to wipe it away or block it, than you can beat the living crap out of them by claiming they were going to hit you.

    I had a problem with that.
    Again, can you provide support for your assertion that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people?

    I didn't think so.

    Moving on until such support is provided.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    eye95 wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.
    I went to the academy myself for 3 weeks. That's all I could take of the hatred for 'civilians.' Disgusting. they spent most of the time bitching about the Bill of Rights, and teaching things like how to spit in someone's face, so they'll raise their hands to wipe it away or block it, than you can beat the living crap out of them by claiming they were going to hit you.

    I had a problem with that.
    Again, can you provide support for your assertion that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people?

    I didn't think so.

    Moving on until such support is provided.
    I witnessed it. Oops, only your personal experiences count, I forgot...

    :quirky
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  22. #22
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    eye95 wrote:
    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.

    My impression of LEOs is that they are generally more level-headed and civil than most folks you meet on the street.
    Those level headed cops can make up an excuse to hold someone for a couple of hours with absolutely no proof of a crime.

    It's not often that I hear of the crazy regular folks doing that.



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    kwikrnu wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    Can those who charge that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people support those remarks? IMO, such broad, hateful statements should not be made unless they can be backed up.

    My impression of LEOs is that they are generally more level-headed and civil than most folks you meet on the street.
    Those level headed cops can make up an excuse to hold someone for a couple of hours with absolutely no proof of a crime.

    It's not often that I hear of the crazy regular folks doing that.

    Neither does this posters reply support the ridiculous assertion that the police are deliberately recruiting bad people.

    The thing I like about the OC community, as opposed to the antis, is that usually they post rationally, not emotionally. We should leave the emotionally-charged, rash, and unsupported claims to the anti community.

    Does anyone else have support for (or against) the statement?

  24. #24
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    eye95 wrote:
    Again, can anyone support the contentions the LEAs are deliberately recruiting bad folks?
    The current Chief of the Nashville Police Department has tried to hire felons into the department.

    Taken from, "A Nashville's Cop fall from power to prison" Nqashville Scene May 28, 2009 by CalebHannan here

    "The glad-handing earned him enemies within his own union. But it also got him a spot on the POST commission, a powerful governor-appointed board that provides waivers to cops who don't meet all the requirements to wear the badge.

    In 2005, Hullett became chairman of POST. The first order of business: Five waiver requests from Nashville's new chief, Ronal Serpas. The cops all had criminal records. In some cases even felonies. Hullett drew a line in the sand.

    Saying "this isn't New Orleans"–a reference to Serpas' notoriously corrupt hometown–Hullett denied the requests, effectively outranking his boss. The results were swift.

    After news broke that Nashville's head cop was vouching for former criminals, Serpas sought revenge, knocking Hullett down from his Lieutenant's post at Central Precinct and exiling him to the impound lot."





  25. #25
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    kwikrnu wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    Again, can anyone support the contentions the LEAs are deliberately recruiting bad folks?
    The current Chief of the Nashville Police Department has tried to hire felons into the department.

    Taken from, "A Nashville's Cop fall from power to prison" Nqashville Scene May 28, 2009 by CalebHannan here

    "The glad-handing earned him enemies within his own union. But it also got him a spot on the POST commission, a powerful governor-appointed board that provides waivers to cops who don't meet all the requirements to wear the badge.

    In 2005, Hullett became chairman of POST. The first order of business: Five waiver requests from Nashville's new chief, Ronal Serpas. The cops all had criminal records. In some cases even felonies. Hullett drew a line in the sand.

    Saying "this isn't New Orleans"–a reference to Serpas' notoriously corrupt hometown–Hullett denied the requests, effectively outranking his boss. The results were swift.

    After news broke that Nashville's head cop was vouching for former criminals, Serpas sought revenge, knocking Hullett down from his Lieutenant's post at Central Precinct and exiling him to the impound lot."
    Citing anecdotal evidence does not support a generalized claim. If it did then cops are murderers and cops are saints.

    The assertion from someone who did not make it through training is attempting to smear LEOs in general.

    Does anyone have any support for this general assertion that police are deliberately recruiting bad folks?

    (BTW, this case demonstrates failure to hire bad people.)

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