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Thread: Traffic stop and guns

  1. #1
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    I got pulled over the other night on my way home for "loud exhaust", and the officer asked me if I had anyguns, knifes, weaponsin my car. I dont have a CPL soif I did have any they would not be on me.If I had at the time would I legally have to tell him if I did, even if cased? Would I have to tell him if I had any knives or anything else in the car? If I did have any with me could he legally take them, look at them or anything else during the stop?

    Also, when open carrying and have an LEO interaction can they legally take your gun from you, check to see if its registered or anything like that?

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    You are not legally bound to tell them anything. If he asks, you can do what you like, but my response would be something to the effect of I don't consent to any search of my vehicle. Even if you're legally transporting a firearm, it is not required to notify. If and only if you have a CPL AND are carrying a loaded "concealed" firearm in the car, are you required to notify.

    Your second question seems to be a gray area, but I think it's generally accepted that they are not supposed to do that, absent RAS. LEIN access w/o RAS is illegal, I'm just not sure if LEIN is where they go for running numbers.

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    During an encounter, an officer can legally take your firearm from you, in the interest of "officer safety"

    however, if you articulate that you will not resist, but refuse any searches or seizures, including running the serial numbers on your gun, then it would appear unlawful for them to run the numbers without you being suspected of being guilty of a crime.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Rock,

    You are NOT obligated to tell a LEO about anything you have in your car. So you can always answer "Officer, there is nothing illegal in my vehicle."

    If he or she continues with: "You don't mind if I have a look then, do you?"

    You should answer: "Officer, I do NOT consent to any searches. Am I free to leave now?"

    You can not legally OC in a vehicle without a CPL ... so obviously, DON'T do so.

    If you're stopped while OCing elsewhere, and the LEO takes your firearm "for your and his safety" (which he/she can do) you can make it clear that you do NOT consent to any searches, including running the serial number on your firearm.

    Now ... that said ... there's what you're legally ENTITLED to do and what will make the encounter as "painless" as possible ...


    RockStrongo wrote:
    I got pulled over the other night on my way home for "loud exhaust", and the officer asked me if I had anyguns, knifes, weaponsin my car. I dont have a CPL soif I did have any they would not be on me.If I had at the time would I legally have to tell him if I did, even if cased? Would I have to tell him if I had any knives or anything else in the car? If I did have any with me could he legally take them, look at them or anything else during the stop?

    Also, when open carrying and have an LEO interaction can they legally take your gun from you, check to see if its registered or anything like that?

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    Thanks for the addvice everyone.

  6. #6
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    Welcome

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Sorry for my ignorance but, Is there a MCL or policy or something where we can read about police powers such as temporarily confiscating a firearm?

    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Basically, I want to know what gives the police the power to take someone's lawfully open carried weapon during a terry stop. From what I can find, officers are allowed to search for concealed weapons which are spoke of as contraband.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    MarineSgt wrote:
    Basically, I want to know what gives the police the power to take someone's lawfully open carried weapon during a terry stop. From what I can find, officers are allowed to search for concealed weapons which are spoke of as contraband.
    I'm not aware of any statute that specifically states an LEO can take your weapon for "officer safety". Does the CPL statute say this??

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
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    I would like to see police prohibited from taking our guns. the constitution is supposed to cover these and many other problems, but it is being ignored.

  11. #11
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    I've found a few Supreme Court cases that have said that after an arrest a search can be completed for weapons. In Terry v. Ohio, I think, it just says that someone can be searched for concealed (contraband) weapons for safety. An open weapon in plain sight is not contraband. Can an officer walk up to you and cuff you for "officer safety" without PC?
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    I found this: http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/...df/crimpro.pdf

    Chapter 3, Page 14, 15


    § 3.02 Weapons Searches
    [A] Holding of Terry v. Ohio


    At issue in Terry was a pat-down of a suspect that the officer observed apparently
    “casing” a store in order to rob it. The Court found that the brief restraint and pat-down did constitute a search and seizure. Next applying the reasonableness balancing test, the Court weighed society’s interest of effective crime prevention and detection – which would be impaired if the police could not confront suspects for investigative purposes on less than probable cause – and the police’s legitimate immediate interest in ensuring that the suspect is not armed, against the invasion of the suspect’s personal liberty. The Court held that the police conduct was constitutional, stating that when an officer has reason to believe that the suspect is armed and dangerous, the officer has the constitutional authority to conduct a search for weapons without probable cause or a warrant.

    Weapon Searches of Persons
    The purpose of the Terry search is limited to the sole purpose of determining whether the suspect is armed. While the appropriate manner of the protective search depends on the specific circumstances, generally, the proper technique, as approved in Terry, is as follows:
    (1) If an officer feels no object during a pat-down, or feels an object that does not
    appear to be a weapon, no further search is justifiable.
    (2) If the initial pat-down – with no further touching – provides the officer with
    probable cause for believing that an object felt is contraband or other criminal evidence
    subject to seizure, he may pull out the object without a warrant, as part of the plain-touch
    doctrine.
    (3) If the officer feels an object that he reasonably believes is a weapon, the
    officer may conduct a search by removing the object from the suspect.
    (4) If the object he pulls out is a container, he may feel the container to see if it
    might contain a weapon inside.
    (5) If his suspicions regarding the container are not reasonably dispelled by its
    size, weight, and feel, the officer may, at a minimum, retain possession of the container.
    (6) If the container could not reasonably contain a weapon, it may not be searched
    or seized.



    Look up the plain view doctrine or the plain view exemption.

    I almost wonder if the police can't temporarily seize an open carried firearm when the RS is the open carrying of a firearm.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    The very core of what we are doing, is to show that being armed is not synonymous with dangerous.

  14. #14
    Regular Member American Boy With a Gun's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    The very core of what we are doing, is to show that being armed is not synonymous with dangerous.
    .+1
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

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