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Thread: what would you do in this case?

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    imagine you are out in public, and an intoxicated man is very unruly, disorderly, and acting out of line. he gets a little close to you, and suddenly brandishes a knife for whatever reason. imagine he simply does not see your firearm at this point.

    what would you do upon him brandishing a knife if he's within 10 feet of you? would you draw down on him and tell him to drop his weapon? or would you simply draw and shoot right away, hoping he doesnt lunge after you with his knife? (considering you dont know exactly how intoxicated he really is)

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    The facts are way too sketchy. What are the surroundings? Are there other innocents around? Is there a way to escape?

    Depending upon the exact circumstances, escape is the most likely option. Drunks aren't too good at chasing folks down. Odds of me drawing are very close to zero. Odds of firing, even closer.

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    imagine you are out in a public place, but it's later in the evening, and there are no people nearby, except for the drunken man. you cant tell if hes mentally disturbed either. he looks like hes crazy, and hes approached you with his knife in hand. at this point, he is about 10 feet away from you with it. you are in the jack in the box parking lot.

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    I attempt to escape. A drunk will be no match for a sober me in a footrace.

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    First off, distance is your best defence. Back up and get distance. Secondly,call the police or have someone else call and stand by ready to take the next step if needed. If you don't have the time andthings happen to quickly then you you do what you have to. These questions really are to open ended for any set response and really are pointless. Maybe one should think about how to avoid such situations altogether. I for one am not a public defender anddon't carry to protect anyone else but myself and my family. If how ever, I saw a person being beaten to death, or a women being raped then I would step in and use the appropriate force to stop the actions. My first and foremost duty is to myself and family. Remember the key words in this situation, "UNAVOIDABLE AND IMMEDIATE". That's what a judge and jury will look at inthetrial that will follow a self-defense shooting.

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    I think we each, as individuals, are getting a completely different image in our heads while reading the story. Some may read the story and just imagine a drunk man, flipping a knife around in the air, in close proximity to you. Others may read this, and picture a very angry, drunk man, holding the knife in a threatening manner, and actually rushing toward you with it. There's not enough detail to answer.

    One thing I can say is, if a man is walking toward me violently, with a weapon in his hand, I'm not going to stand there and call the police. I also have no duty to retreat by Washington State law. I would use whatever force was appropriate.

    If I didn't find him a threat, and he's just being an idiot, whipping his knife around, I'd probably just move away to another area to avoid trouble. If he's aggressively approaching me, I doubt I would just run away and risk getting stabbed in the back or something.


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    Sounds like some are just waiting for a opportunity use lethal force. Like I said before, If I feel my life is in immediate and unavoidable danger then I'll do what I must, but if given the opportunity to retreat and not take a life then that's MY best defence.

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    Suburban78 wrote:
    Sounds like some are just waiting for a opportunity use lethal force. Like I said before, If I feel my life is in immediate and unavoidable danger then I'll do what I must, but if given the opportunity to retreat and not take a life then that's MY best defence.
    Just out of curiosity, if a burglar broke in to your home via breaking the glass in your front room, would you flee your house if you have a window to escape through in your room?

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    That's a completely different scenario. For one thing, every person has the legal right to EXPECT complete safety in their own home! Also in my own home I have 5 daughters and my wife to protect and with someone breaking in through a window would be shot no questions asked. Now in the OP scenario, your outside in a parking lotand the laws are different outside of your home at least here in colorado. So keep your questions reasonable and in context of the original question please.

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    I'm also assuming that I'm alone and dont have family with me which would also change my actions. Again, like I said in my OP, these scenario type questions are really pointless. To many variables that leave to much to ones own imagination!

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    Colorado laws are different than the laws here in Washington.

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    eye95 wrote:
    I attempt to escape. A drunk will be no match for a sober me in a footrace.
    Since you stated he was drunk. I would back away and leave the area.
    Live Free or Die!

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    The real question is...

    How, and why, did you allow someone acting in a strange manner (drunk and angry or angry and mentally "off" or just angry) get within 10 feet of you in the first place?

    The best defense against an attack is to be aware of your surroundings, recognize the potential for problems long before the problem starts, and not be there when it does start.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Tony Santiago wrote:
    imagine you are out in public, and an intoxicated man is very unruly, disorderly, and acting out of line. he gets a little close to you, and suddenly brandishes a knife for whatever reason. imagine he simply does not see your firearm at this point.

    what would you do upon him brandishing a knife if he's within 10 feet of you? would you draw down on him and tell him to drop his weapon? or would you simply draw and shoot right away, hoping he doesnt lunge after you with his knife? (considering you dont know exactly how intoxicated he really is)
    Tony Santiago wrote:
    imagine you are out in a public place, but it's later in the evening, and there are no people nearby, except for the drunken man. you cant tell if hes mentally disturbed either. he looks like hes crazy, and hes approached you with his knife in hand. at this point, he is about 10 feet away from you with it. you are in the jack in the box parking lot.
    I would move away from the drunken knife-wielder. That should not be hard to do, if done decisively and immediately. When separated by a safe distance I would call 911 and report what I saw.

    Good question, TS. What would you do?



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    Suburban78 wrote:
    That's a completely different scenario. For one thing, every person has the legal right to EXPECT complete safety in their own home! Also in my own home I have 5 daughters and my wife to protect and with someone breaking in through a window would be shot no questions asked. Now in the OP scenario, your outside in a parking lotand the laws are different outside of your home at least here in colorado. So keep your questions reasonable and in context of the original question please.
    Excellent point. If it is just the drunk and I in the parking lot, I can protect myself more assuredly by leaving than by shooting the knife wielder. If I am at home, there is more to protect: my family, my property, and myself. Leaving only protects myself, so escape is out of the question.

    That's the problem with "lifeboat" questions. They try to take complex problems and boil them down to just one or two variables. Life is much more complex.

    If the OP is just trying to find out if there any circumstances under which I would shoot a drunk with a knife, just to protect myself, as a last resort, yes. If there are other reasonable options, no.

    I would feel more comfortable about "lifeboat" questions if those who post them would do so honestly, and state their intent of the question. Instead, I get the feeling the such posters are setting self-serving traps.

    If you really are trying to learn something, just be open and honest about how you ask.

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    My actions, BANG!!! drop the knife.
    Edited: Seriously, a drunk within ten feet and I'm armed, Adios drunk
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Honestly, when I read the original post, I pictured a drunk man pulling out his knife at a distance of 10' from me, and moving toward me violently. I don't know, but that's not really a distance where I'd feel comfortable turning my back and running at that point.

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    Suburban78 wrote:
    That's a completely different scenario. For one thing, every person has the legal right to EXPECT complete safety in their own home! Also in my own home I have 5 daughters and my wife to protect and with someone breaking in through a window would be shot no questions asked. Now in the OP scenario, your outside in a parking lotand the laws are different outside of your home at least here in colorado. So keep your questions reasonable and in context of the original question please.
    I have a legal Right to expect complete safety where I can legally be!

    Did the OP specify legal jurisdiction restrictions?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Tony Santiago wrote:
    imagine you are out in public, and an intoxicated man is very unruly, disorderly, and acting out of line. he gets a little close to you, and suddenly brandishes a knife for whatever reason. imagine he simply does not see your firearm at this point.

    what would you do upon him brandishing a knife if he's within 10 feet of you? would you draw down on him and tell him to drop his weapon? or would you simply draw and shoot right away, hoping he doesnt lunge after you with his knife? (considering you dont know exactly how intoxicated he really is)
    So, is this simply a hypothetical question?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    wrightme wrote:
    Suburban78 wrote:
    That's a completely different scenario. For one thing, every person has the legal right to EXPECT complete safety in their own home! Also in my own home I have 5 daughters and my wife to protect and with someone breaking in through a window would be shot no questions asked. Now in the OP scenario, your outside in a parking lotand the laws are different outside of your home at least here in colorado. So keep your questions reasonable and in context of the original question please.
    I have a legal Right to expect complete safety where I can legally be!

    Did the OP specify legal jurisdiction restrictions?
    And I didn't say you don't, but the laws regarding a self-defense shootingare different out side of your home. THE RIGHT TO EXPECT COMPLETESAFETY IN YOUR OWN HOME come from legal working straight from colorado laws regarding selfprotection in your home and the MAKE MY DAY LAW. If youwere following the post as they read, then you would know that the legal jurisdiction restriction comment was a reply to a completely out of context scenario question that I was asked and had nothing to do with my original answer to the OP. But never the less, an appropriate answer to the OP question would have to take legal jurisdiction into account and I also NEVER said that I or ANYONE else dose not also expect complete safety at anytime or place but simply that depending on thecircumstances and location, that different actions could be needed. I too would shot if need be, but as said in another post,"HOW DID THIS GUY GET THAT CLOSE TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE?" which brings me back to another point I made in my first response to the OP, The better question is how do you avoid these situations in the first place! If you SITUATIONAL AWARENESS is that poor to begin with, then your the biggest danger to yourself!

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    Suburban78 wrote:
    wrightme wrote:
    Suburban78 wrote:
    That's a completely different scenario. For one thing, every person has the legal right to EXPECT complete safety in their own home! Also in my own home I have 5 daughters and my wife to protect and with someone breaking in through a window would be shot no questions asked. Now in the OP scenario, your outside in a parking lotand the laws are different outside of your home at least here in colorado. So keep your questions reasonable and in context of the original question please.
    I have a legal Right to expect complete safety where I can legally be!

    Did the OP specify legal jurisdiction restrictions?
    And I didn't say you don't, but the laws regarding a self-defense shootingare different out side of your home. THE RIGHT TO EXPECT COMPLETESAFETY IN YOUR OWN HOME come from legal working straight from colorado laws regarding selfprotection in your home and the MAKE MY DAY LAW.
    Yet that statement rests upon the specifics of different jurisdictions.
    IMHO, it shouldn't. EVERY citizen of the United States should:
    a)EXPECT to be able to travel unhindered by crime.
    b)have an unalienable RIGHT to defend from crime, without 'duty to run away."

    Laws that provide only defense when cowering in our homes are NOT fair to persons who practice lawful public conduct.

    Prior to your "home defense" response, you posted:
    Suburban78 wrote:
    My first and foremost duty is to myself and family. Remember the key words in this situation, "UNAVOIDABLE AND IMMEDIATE". That's what a judge and jury will look at inthetrial that will follow a self-defense shooting.
    Where did you acquire the "unavoidable and immediate" 'key words' you introduced into discussion?

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Uh, lets see... Guess you don't do much reading. Ever heard of Rob Pincus, Mark Walters, Larry Pratt and many others... The Term "IMMEDIATE AND UNAVOIDABLE" is not a legal term (yet) but is used in CCW carry classes and Self-Defense courses all across the US. It is used to clarify while training when the use of deadly force is legal. Although some states do not have a duty to retreat law, why would one just draw and shoot if there were any other alternative? Like I said before, It seems as though some are just waiting for the opportunity to use their sidearm. Now if I was such a dunce that I would have put myself into that type of position(OP scenario)then I would do what I had to! HUM, empty parking lot! Night! No one around! One Drunk Man Acting Crazy! How in the world could this Crazy even get close to you! Why would you even be in that parking lot! Anyway, the point is that EVERYONE would handle that scenario in their own way. I sure hope that if anyone with the BANG!"DROP THE KNIFE" attitude has a damn good attorney on retainer. If and when I ever have to point and shoot, it will be IMMEDIATE AND UNAVOIDABLE and that should leave me without the cost and jeopardy of a trial to prove that I had NO OTHER OPTION.

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    Suburban78 wrote:
    Uh, lets see... Guess you don't do much reading. Ever heard of Rob Pincus, Mark Walters, Larry Pratt and many others... The Term "IMMEDIATE AND UNAVOIDABLE" is not a legal term (yet) but is used in CCW carry classes and Self-Defense courses all across the US. It is used to clarify while training when the use of deadly force is legal. Although some states do not have a duty to retreat law, why would one just draw and shoot if there were any other alternative? Like I said before, It seems as though some are just waiting for the opportunity to use their sidearm. Now if I was such a dunce that I would have put myself into that type of position(OP scenario)then I would do what I had to! HUM, empty parking lot! Night! No one around! One Drunk Man Acting Crazy! How in the world could this Crazy even get close to you! Why would you even be in that parking lot! Anyway, the point is that EVERYONE would handle that scenario in their own way. I sure hope that if anyone with the BANG!"DROP THE KNIFE" attitude has a damn good attorney on retainer. If and when I ever have to point and shoot, it will be IMMEDIATE AND UNAVOIDABLE and that should leave me without the cost and jeopardy of a trial to prove that I had NO OTHER OPTION.
    THus, it carries no wait.

    Speaking of reading, in NV, there is no "duty to retreat." Other jurisdictions may differ.

    The OP is a simple troll. Responses may differ.
    SD should be allowed when attacked. Good SD courses should teach local statute. The rest is tactics. Further, there are PLENTY of threads here (and in other forums) that point out one simple truth; a CCW class is NOT necessarily a good reference to what is lawful. I have seen too many that teach that once a concealed firearm permit is gained, that open carry is subsequently illegal.

    As for the "Immediate and Unavoidable," it only holds weight if applicable statute of a specific jurisdiction spells it out like that. It may be prudent, but that does not make it necessary.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Well he said the situation was in a jack in the box parking lot. I don't really know how that would consist of the individual lacking situation awareness if he's coming out of the restaurant to get to his car, to encounter an intoxicated man with a knife.

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    Tony Santiago wrote:
    imagine you are out in public, and an intoxicated man is very unruly, disorderly, and acting out of line. he gets a little close to you, and suddenly brandishes a knife for whatever reason. imagine he simply does not see your firearm at this point.

    what would you do upon him brandishing a knife if he's within 10 feet of you? would you draw down on him and tell him to drop his weapon? or would you simply draw and shoot right away, hoping he doesnt lunge after you with his knife? (considering you dont know exactly how intoxicated he really is)
    Shoot him as you are backing up....until he drops the knife....or drops himself. Why is this hard?

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