• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

What ammo for chambered round?

gmijackso

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
imported post

So far I've been reluctant to carry or even store my pistol with a round chambered because of the added threat of accidental discharge. So, I was wondering what everybody uses as their chambered round? Do you use a different round than the rest of your clip, just in case of accidental discharge?

I've considered using a frangible as my chambered round because it would decrease chances of wall penetration in the event of accidental discharge, but ultimately I think I'm looking for a "less than lethal" round to chamber. The problem is, I can't seem to find anything in a 9mm Automatic ammo. Does anybody know of anything that is available?

Ultimately my goal is to carry a single "less than lethal" round, chambered, and a full magazine of standard ammo. I've looked at the 9mm Shot Shells but understand that they aren't really designed for an Automatic and often don't cycle the weapon properly causing the next round to fail. I've also looked at the Glaser Blue rounds, but while they are a "shot shell" they are compressed so tightly that they are considered fully lethal and are therefore more like a frangible round than a shot shell.

Please try to keep from discussing "all ammo is lethal" and "don't point at something you don't intend to kill". We all (hopefully) know the basics, but reality is, occasionally a weapon is accidentally discharged. No matter how rare, and how unlikely, I'd like to take as much precaution as possible that if it were to happen, an innocent doesn't die. Also please try to refrain from "less than lethal only gives BG time to shoot you" or similar. I can fire two rounds nearly as quickly as I can fire the first, and in a situation where a BG were placing my life in risk, I would fire 2 rounds given that I know that the first is less than lethal, and the second would put him down.

To recap:
What rounds do you carry chambered when OC/"storing" your weapon? Are those rounds different than what you carry in the rest of your magazine? Does anybody know of a "less than lethal" 9mm round and what is it?
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
imported post

I am sorry but..If you are afraid that you will have an accidental discharge you should not be carrying a firearm. Gun's do not just go off (except for Jenning's)

I'd advise you to take training and do not carry a weapon until you work over your fear.

A weapon is never accidentally discharged there is only negligence.

Based just on the post I'd say you do not have the experience or training to be carrying a firearm and you should get some training post haste.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but life has a steep learning curve and there is no respawn points.
 

gmijackso

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
imported post

Phoenix David wrote:
I am sorry but..If you are afraid that you will have an accidental discharge you should not be carrying a firearm.  Gun's do not just go off (except for Jenning's)

I'd advise you to take training and do not carry a weapon until you work over your fear.

A weapon is never accidentally discharged there is only negligence.

Based just on the post I'd say you do not have the experience or training to be carrying a firearm and you should get some training post haste.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but life has a steep learning curve and there is no respawn points.

Whatever your belief, caution/discretion is the better part of valor. If you can make a case where anybody would be worse off to have a chambered less than lethal round in a situation as opposed to having the weapon loaded and unchambered (which is law in many states) I'm all ears.

I know my abilities with a firearm, but I also know that accidents happen and EVERYBODY thinks it won't happen to them, until it does. Also consider a weapon that somehow gets into the hands of a child, if every first round was less than lethal, maybe less dead children. Also consider that BG has your weapon in your house when you come home, wouldn't it be nice to know that the first round was less than lethal, when given the chance to re-take your weapon. There are possible advantages to a less than lethal first round, and the only disadvantages are the time required to fire two consecutive rounds (negligible) and the "loss" of your +1 round (which isn't legal in many states anyway thus placing you +0.5 above those states).

Please try to remain on-topic. I have my beliefs and you yours. I tend to think through nearly impossible situations. It is in my job description to mitigate unintentional damages, and I try to apply that to every aspect of life, even when faced with the most remote possibilities.

Edit: Please don't confuse the respect for the ability to take a life with fear. I just wish to be sure that the life taken, is the intended one, no matter the situation.
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
imported post

I just don't understand why someone would go through the trouble of having a firearm and then have it in a state that is less that what it was designed for. You are in Nevada which has laws very similar to Arizona and they do not have a empty chamber law.

You said a child could get a hold of it so better to have a less than lethal round. Well with that train if thought why not have the first 5 rounds all blanks, by the time the child get through them they will be tired or racking the slide and maybe an adult has noticed. Or you could just not let the child have access to the firearm and keep it loaded and in a state it was designed for.

How would you be arriving home and the BG has your gun? why is it not secured in a safe or on your person and again if you are worried that a BG will get fill it full of blanks. Or the better option would be to secure it properly or have it on you.

To be as safe as possible the magazine should always be filled with blanks and the barrel plugged so that any wadding in the blank could not come out the barrel and accidentally kill some one like what happened to Jon Erik Hexum. If you need to use the weapon to defend yourself you can field strip it, replace the barrel and load up a magazine of live ammo.
 

.45acp

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
333
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
imported post

gmijackso,

The biggest reason for AD's or ND's is pulling the bang switch (trigger) a gun will not just go bang laying on the table or in the night stand. If you are really that worried then leave the chamber empty. In a pistol the Less Than Lethal rounds are very lethal at close range. IMHO , gun handling skills prevent more firearms deaths than less than lethal rounds.

I agree with Phoenix David, it sounds like you need training in the gun handling dept. Until then, keep your figgers away from the trigger, unless you want it to go bang. No disrepect intended.



I carry a 1911, and each night I unholster and lay it in my gun drawer, cocked and locked, each morning I pick it up, cocked and locked and holster it. I keep mine loaded with standard ammo.



Steve
 

gmijackso

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
imported post

Phoenix David wrote:
I just don't understand why someone would go through the trouble of having a firearm and then have it in a state that is less that what it was designed for.  You are in Nevada which has laws very similar to Arizona and they do not have a empty chamber law.

You said a child could get a hold of it so better to have a less than lethal round.  Well with that train if thought why not have the first 5 rounds all blanks, by the time the child get through them they will be tired or racking the slide and maybe an adult has noticed.  Or you could just not let the child have access to the firearm and keep it loaded and in a state it was designed for.

How would you be arriving home and the BG has your gun? why is it not secured in a safe or on your person and again if you are worried that a BG will get fill it full of blanks.  Or the better option would be to secure it properly or have it on you.

To be as safe as possible the magazine should always be filled with blanks and the barrel plugged so that any wadding in the blank could not come out the barrel and accidentally kill some one like what happened to Jon Erik Hexum.  If you need to use the weapon to defend yourself you can field strip it, replace the barrel and load up a magazine of live ammo.

My thought is that if you aren't able to neutralize the threat in the number of rounds your magazine holds, you shouldn't have been firing in the first place, and if the threat is so great in number, the +1 is unlikely to make enough difference and you better have a second magazine available anyway. Therefore, the +1 chambered round is mostly unnecessary. However the time to draw, chamber a round, and acquire target and fire is significantly greater and more prone to misfeed in a high stress situation, than would be drawing acquiring target and firing two rounds. This effectively makes the first round mostly an "automatic" chambering device for a lethal round.

I had actually considered loading a blank as the first round to have the same effect. However, I felt that a non-lethal round was the "best of both worlds" in this situation, while if you were so inclined to give the option, would give BG the option to surrender.

Don't you think that everybody with a dead child believed that they had adequately trained their child, or secured the weapon, or both to prevent such a disaster? Again, and I will modify for you, REASONABLE caution is the better part of valor my friend.

There is a difference between being as safe as possible, and being as safe as possible while still being able to accomplish your task with reasonable effort.
 

gmijackso

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
imported post

.45acp wrote:
I carry a 1911, and each night I unholster and lay it in my gun drawer, cocked and locked, each morning I pick it up, cocked and locked and holster it. I keep mine loaded with standard ammo.

Thank you for at least answering one of the posted questions...
 

flagellum

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
384
Location
North Las Vegas, NV
imported post

You probably won't find anyone that will agree to carry anything other than the most effective round possible.

But to stay on topic, I would suggest you go the route of better Holster retention. Perhaps get a level 3 holster, or even a weapon with an external safety, and practice flipping it off/back on when practicing engaging a threat.
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
imported post

I think we have major philosophical (thank you spell checker) differences, so I'm going to hold any additional comments and see what others think, who knows, I could be off my meds and I hate drama :)
 

gmijackso

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
imported post

@flagellum
Actually you were on topic until you decided to stray off-topic and talk about holster retention and safeties.

@.45acp
Hi-Point C9, which has a striker action firing assembly, and a thumb safety, in case you're unfamiliar.

@Phoenix David
I'm not looking for a philosophical debate, or even drama. I merely asked specific questions to which I was hoping to get answers.

I know me better than anybody here. I know my goals, I know my abilities, I know my weapon. It seems common place for some reason that when a question is asked, it is dissected to something else and then never answered. That is specifically why I re-posted the questions at the end of my original post, so that it would hopefully re-focus the reader to get an answer to the question posted, as opposed to their solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Maybe Flagellum is right, and I'm the only person that has ever considered carrying a non-lethal round. Maybe I'm crazy or silly for considering it. But the fact remains, I didn't ask how to prevent an "accidental discharge", I didn't ask for an evaluation of my skills based on the reading of my post, I asked what rounds you carry, and if anybody knows of any 9mm less than lethal rounds.

Sorry if that seemed harsh.
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
imported post

All mine are always loaded w/ round chambered even when in the safe.

For 9mm I carry 125 grain GoldDot
For .45 I carry 230 grain Hydrashock
For .40 I carry 165 grain Hydrashock

I'd switch to SXT for all if I could find a good supply

You might want to look at rubber bullets they are generally considered less than lethal. For shotgun there is the beanbag round, there are also rubber bullets for rifles
 

gmijackso

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
imported post

Phoenix David wrote:
You might want to look at rubber bullets they are generally considered less than lethal.

Thanks! I had tried looking into rubber bullets, but was unable to locate any for a 9mm. There are a ton of "less than lethal" rounds for a 12ga, but every search I've done for 9mm rubber bullets nets another forum with a list of posts similar to above, which is also part of the reason I was trying to avoid them, and why I was more easily annoyed with them. Sorry.

EDIT: I have found, upon re-searching and clicking more of other people yahoo questions, that A.L.S. Technologies sells AM311 for 9mm. That may be an option.
 

.45acp

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
333
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
imported post

There are several frangible rounds on the market, I’m only familiar with the Glaser Safety Slugs. Basically shot compressed into a metal jacket. There are two styles the Blue and and Power Ball, they use a light for caliber high velocity round. Look into them. Of course, unless they penetrate a wall first, they are still very unfriendly to the human body.

I have not fired the Hi Point, but have handled it and dry fired it, nothing wrong with the gun. For SD it will do everything you need. I’m just not a fan of the striker fire control system.



Steve
 

gmijackso

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
208
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
imported post

.45acp wrote:
There are several frangible rounds on the market, I’m only familiar with the Glaser Safety Slugs. Basically shot compressed into a metal jacket. There are two styles the Blue and and Power Ball, they use a light for caliber high velocity round. Look into them. Of course, unless they penetrate a wall first, they are still very unfriendly to the human body.

I have not fired the Hi Point, but have handled it and dry fired it, nothing wrong with the gun. For SD it will do everything you need. I’m just not a fan of the striker fire control system.

 

Steve

I had looked at several frangible rounds, and had actually considered using them originally, as I have room mates and Vegas is densely populated with houses in close proximity.

I've been very happy with the Hi-Point. Price to performance it was a great purchase and has been reliable to date.
 

.45acp

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
333
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
imported post

Just my opinion, don't carry a blank or rubber bullets in the chamber. Strictly for the purpose of reliability, if you ever do need it for SD, the occasion may arise in the blink of an eye literally. A blank or rubber bullet load may not cycle the gun properly. If you are that concerned, learn how to draw, rack the slide and come to firing position in one smooth action. If you can’t reconcile a loaded chamber….IMHO learning to fire from an empty chamber is your best option.

Steve
 

ronlday

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
12
Location
stagecoach, Nevada, USA
imported post

have you thought of wax bullets?

doing a quick search i was only able to find them for revolvers. they use the for Cass and fast draw.

and have you thought of changing to a revolver. that way you could have it resting on a empty cylinder.

and why not just keep it unloaded when not on your person. when you sleep you can have the mag out. and if you need it then just slip the mag in, and chamber a round or not. up to you.

and as the part about people who have lost a kid to a fire arm, thinking that they had trained there kid well anough. well i think most of them didn't. and probably know they didn't do a good anough job but wouldn't want to admit it.

i think all kids should be taken out to a range or some were. and shown what a gun can do. as in the parent should shoot some 2 liters or milk jugs. so they can see them blow up and spray fluid all over the place. and be shownwhat your fire arms look like and basically were they are. that way they can know when they see one. and also know not to go were ever it is you keep them. but when they are older and its a emergency they would know were things are.

also they should be shown how to safely use the fire arms. when you think they are old anough and mature anough.

if you take the missteek and unknown away from the fire arms they wont be in such a hurry to want to touch one. or let others mess with them. and hope fully you have a good anough relationship with them that if they see some other kid with one or if another kid claims he has access to one the kid will tell you.

Ron day
 

Judge.410

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
77
Location
, ,
imported post

One thought is the "electronic type" saftey where the pistol won't fire unless the shooter wears a special ring. I think it might be magnetic.....anyway when the pistol is outfitted with this device, it's not suppose to discharge...sounds expensive,but might be something to check into......:cool:
 

doninvegas

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
243
Location
Henderson, ,
imported post

answer to your question...in my SW 38 i carry Gold dot JHP, in my 380 the same and in my 1911 JHP , and my 22 mag derringer JHP..
I think i like my Sig 232 the best for CC, I think it is because i can have one in the chamber and the hammer resting on its safety, this is a very safe to carry gun with no manual safety and it is double action...absolutly no way for this gun to fire except to pull the trigger...
I carried a 38 snub and a 1911 for over 40+ years till i got my Sig....and raised 4 boys,
and i must add.....NEVER in those 40+ years did i ever have a gun fire with out me pulling the trigger........

Just my 2 cents worth....

i dont know you so i can not comment on your abilities or habits....
Just be safe....and practice ....

don
 
Top