• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

No more Utah permits

M

Mark (IL)

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
20
Location
, New Mexico, USA
imported post

Effective immediately, NM will no longer recognize Utah permits:

New Mexico DPS | CCW Info

There has been talk a change for awhile, since many NM residents have chosen to get Utah rather than NM permits, but people I know expected that change to be that NM residents would need local permits.

There are 18 other states whose permits may not be honored in the future (see link above) including Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wyoming ...

Likely to see more open carry... and a lot more attention to the strange NM regulations regarding carrying concealed weapons unloaded, which have been discussed on this forum several times before...

Mark
 
J

JimMullinsWVCDL

State Researcher
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
676
Location
Lebanon, VA
imported post

I think the best solution to this problem in the long term is to push for legislation to adopt Arizona'a current reciprocity/recognition law, which recognizes all other states' licenses as long as the individual is at least 21 years old and a nonresident. Although you would have to give up the option of using another state's license to carry in your own state, you would get the benefit of significantly-expanded reciprocity because your state would honor all other states' licenses.
 
U

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
imported post

WVCDL wrote:
I think the best solution to this problem in the long term is to push for legislation to adopt Arizona'a current reciprocity/recognition law, which recognizes all other states' licenses as long as the individual is at least 21 years old and a nonresident. Although you would have to give up the option of using another state's license to carry in your own state, you would get the benefit of significantly-expanded reciprocity because your state would honor all other states' licenses.
Click to expand...
I think this is a great first step toward expanding reciprocity. Frankly, I always get a little concerned when I see instructors or even residents of a given State encouraging the use of a non-resident permit to avoid some aspect of the home-State's requirements. It seems that more often than not, the home State just drops recognition of the out-of-State permits entirely.

Requiring State residents to carry on a home-State permit also has the advantage of keeping the locals actively involved and interested in what local laws are for getting a permit. That tends to keep things moving in the right direction.

Of course, we should all, also be pushing to follow Arizona's lead on Constitutional Carry.

Charles
from utah
 
R

RogueWarrior

New member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
343
Location
, ,
imported post

What needs to happen is for New Mexico to start giving Non Residents IE Non US citizens the rights to get a NM CCW as I'm sure that a lot of people that are now in the lurch are non Citizens
 
R

rpyne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,072
Location
Provo, Utah, USA
imported post

Like Nevada, the training issue is just an excuse, the real issue is the revenue lost to out of state permits.

This just adds one more state that will not get one red cent of my hard earned money.
 
H

huntingcrazy

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
15
Location
Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
imported post

rpyne wrote:
Like Nevada, the training issue is just an excuse, the real issue is the revenue lost to out of state permits.

This just adds one more state that will not get one red cent of my hard earned money.
Click to expand...
Hell yes it is! $125 to take the class, not to mention all of the fingerprinting/photo fees. Plus an additional $100 to apply for the permit. It's all about the cash!
 
jamesisel

jamesisel

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
76
Location
Milwaukee ,WI
imported post

The whole idea of having to get a permit at all is crap.
But since we are stuck with it in some states for the time being I think that the best option is to make citizens obtain a permit in the state they are a resident of and make the state recognize all other states permits for non residents
 
desert-prospector

desert-prospector

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
72
Location
(City of the Crosses), Las Cruces New Mexico, USA
imported post

Here's my permit:

Sec. 6. No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.
 
R

rpyne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,072
Location
Provo, Utah, USA
imported post

desert-prospector wrote:
Here's my permit:

Sec. 6. No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.
Click to expand...
 
desert-prospector

desert-prospector

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
72
Location
(City of the Crosses), Las Cruces New Mexico, USA
imported post

rpyne wrote:
desert-prospector wrote:
Here's my permit:

Sec. 6. No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Don't know what your point would be, but this is what I meant to stress:

"No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms."
 
R

rpyne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,072
Location
Provo, Utah, USA
imported post

desert-prospector wrote:
rpyne wrote:
desert-prospector wrote:
Here's my permit:

Sec. 6. No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Don't know what your point would be, but this is what I meant to stress:

"No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms."
Click to expand...
My point is that there is no New Mexico State constitutional protection for carrying concealed weapons, so how would it be your permit?
 
S

steveaikens

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Clovis, New Mexico, USA
imported post

rpyne wrote:
Like Nevada, the training issue is just an excuse, the real issue is the revenue lost to out of state permits.

This just adds one more state that will not get one red cent of my hard earned money.
Click to expand...
NM continues to recognize the same states it did before Friday, except UT. Reciprocity is being reviewed with other states and may actually improve. At this time, other than TX, NM does not have a reciprocal agreement with any other state but is in the process of converting states currently honored to agreements.

For the record, there is significant rhetoric on numerous forums claiming this is about money, about instructors whining and all kinds of crap. Crap is exactly what that is. It's not about money. The DPS CCU spends $81 per original license and $67 per renewal - hardly a moneymaker. I have never heard one word from any NM instructor that UT instructors were undercutting them.

Utah does not, nor have they ever had a handgun proficiency/competence requirement in their training. I am the person that compiled the original list of states for DPS, that met our statute of "substantially similar" requirement for reciprocity. Utah was NEVER on that list - it was added to the list by someone at DPS IN ERROR. DPS has corrected that error. DPS has requested an up-to-date list. That list has been compiled and they will have it in the next couple days - after I have re-verified that data.

The bottom line here is pretty simple. The statute is crystal clear in it's requirements. Meet them, you're on the list - don't meet them, you're off the list.

Steve Aikens
 
H

huntingcrazy

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
15
Location
Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
imported post

steveaikens wrote:
rpyne wrote:
Like Nevada, the training issue is just an excuse, the real issue is the revenue lost to out of state permits.

This just adds one more state that will not get one red cent of my hard earned money.
Click to expand...
NM continues to recognize the same states it did before Friday, except UT. Reciprocity is being reviewed with other states and may actually improve. At this time, other than TX, NM does not have a reciprocal agreement with any other state but is in the process of converting states currently honored to agreements.

For the record, there is significant rhetoric on numerous forums claiming this is about money, about instructors whining and all kinds of crap. Crap is exactly what that is. It's not about money. The DPS CCU spends $81 per original license and $67 per renewal - hardly a moneymaker. I have never heard one word from any NM instructor that UT instructors were undercutting them.

Utah does not, nor have they ever had a handgun proficiency/competence requirement in their training. I am the person that compiled the original list of states for DPS, that met our statute of "substantially similar" requirement for reciprocity. Utah was NEVER on that list - it was added to the list by someone at DPS IN ERROR. DPS has corrected that error. DPS has requested an up-to-date list. That list has been compiled and they will have it in the next couple days - after I have re-verified that data.

The bottom line here is pretty simple. The statute is crystal clear in it's requirements. Meet them, you're on the list - don't meet them, you're off the list.

Steve Aikens
Click to expand...
There are a couple of inaccuracies in your last post.

First, the problem is not Utah instructors undercutting NM instructors, it is NM instructors were acting as Utah instructors and selling a "Utah training package" instead of a "NM training package" here within the State's boundaries.

Second, Utah does have shooting proficiencies. When I obtained my permit, in Utah, I had to qualify at various distances with both a pistol and a revolver.
 
S

steveaikens

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Clovis, New Mexico, USA
imported post

From an email reply I sent to NM DPS CCU in August when they were looking at Utah reciprocity.

Utah does not now, nor have they ever had a practical range proficiency requirement. This is confirmed this morning by Officer Jeff Dunn at the Utah CHL Licensing Dept. Jeff is the instructor licensing authority for Utah.

You can contact Jeff at:

Bureau of Criminal Identification
3888 West 5400 South
Salt Lake City, Utah 84118
Telephone: 801-965-4445

Where you may be accurate in your statement that you were required by your instructor to demonstrate proficiency - it has never been a requirement in their statutes.

When I say UT instructors - I don't mean instructors from UT. I mean instructors certified by UT to certify UT licensees.
 
L

Loneviking

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
344
Location
Carson City, Nevada, USA
imported post

steveaikens wrote:
From an email reply I sent to NM DPS CCU in August when they were looking at Utah reciprocity.

Utah does not now, nor have they ever had a practical range proficiency requirement. This is confirmed this morning by Officer Jeff Dunn at the Utah CHL Licensing Dept. Jeff is the instructor licensing authority for Utah.

You can contact Jeff at:

Bureau of Criminal Identification
3888 West 5400 South
Salt Lake City, Utah 84118
Telephone: 801-965-4445

Where you may be accurate in your statement that you were required by your instructor to demonstrate proficiency - it has never been a requirement in their statutes.

When I say UT instructors - I don't mean instructors from UT. I mean instructors certified by UT to certify UT licensees.
Click to expand...
That is correct, as I've also talked to Jeff Dunn about this.
 
Rottie

Rottie

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
129
Location
Somewhere out there
imported post

steveaikens wrote:
rpyne wrote:
Click to expand...
Like Nevada, the training issue is just an excuse, the real issue is the revenue lost to out of state permits.

This just adds one more state that will not get one red cent of my hard earned money.
Click to expand...
...
For the record, there is significant rhetoric on numerous forums claiming this is about money, about instructors whining and all kinds of crap. Crap is exactly what that is. It's not about money. The DPS CCU spends $81 per original license and $67 per renewal - hardly a moneymaker...
The bottom line here is pretty simple. The statute is crystal clear in it's requirements. Meet them, you're on the list - don't meet them, you're off the list.

Steve Aikens
Click to expand...
Steve you are a bit off on your figures. New permits are $100.00 and renewals are $75.00. It has more to do with the money than I think you'd like to recognize. As far as I am concernedI will not be patronizing New Mexico anymore. I'll vacation somewhere else. We are trying to wratchet up our permitting process here and restrict the availability of the Utah permit as it pertains to those not from our state unless certain conditions are met. While you work to ensure that our Utah permit is not recognized by your state, you can rest assured that we here in Utah will do everything in our power to make sure that your permit is stillrecognized by our state. After all, unlike you, we care about your right to keep and bear arms everywhere legally allowed in our state.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top