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Thread: The Problem on the Border

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    To all who don’t live on the border and have no reason to keep up with the events taking place, I wrote this up and included quotes and website links that you can check for yourselves (there are literally hundreds of links that could be included). This issue is not really complicated…just follow the money, corruption and political pandering. It is not my intention to create a political discussion on the Arizona OC forum, but the recent law signed by Gov. Brewer has done it for me.

    It does illustrate why we need the right to OC or CC as our individual needs may be. I live 8 miles from a Narco State and they are here.

    My apologies to all,

    Steve

    The illegal immigration and border control problem is clouded and kept in rhetorical arguments by our own politicians and other special interest groups for three reasons that I can see. I have treated this as three related, intertwined points; Illegal Immigration, Drug Trafficking and US internal issues.



    1, The economy of Mexico is dependent upon the money the illegal’s send back home. Simple fact, it is the 2nd largest cash flow (legal) in the Mexican economy next to PEMEX and Exports. There have been several studies that actually stated that if the border is sealed, drug smuggling and illegal immigration halted it may throw Mexico into a revolution due to the economic pandemonium border closure would create. It is also argued that Mexico has a deep historic grievance against the US and that eventually the lost territories in the South West USA will be returned to Mexico by default by unfettered illegal immigration (this is La Raza’s and MEChA’s goals).



    From http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

    MEChA is an Hispanic separatist organization that encourages anti-American activities and civil disobedience. The radical members of MEChA who refer to themselves as "Mechistas," romanticize Mexican claims to the "lost Territories" of the Southwestern United States -- a Chicano country called Aztlan. In its national constitution, MEChA calls for self-determination by its members to liberate Aztlan. MEChA's national constitution starts out: "Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán." (Aztlan being the Southwestern US)





    All along the border, the Mexican government provides written guides and advice to people making the trek. There are shops and business that cater to the illegals selling electrolyte drinks, backpacks, hiking boots, water canteens, maps or routes etc. In short Mexico supports and does nothing to stem the flow, their efforts are to maintain the status quo and ensure that illegal’s can still pass relatively unscathed across our border. Our politicians; local, state and federal ignore the Mexican government’s refusal to assist in stemming the tide.



    From the US Government immigration site

    “Last year Mexico received more than $17 billion in remittances (From Mexicans in the US). The amount of remittances in Mexico exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country.”



    From http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1466713/

    Massey said the goal of undocumented Mexicans in the U.S. is not to live in the country permanently but "to use the U.S. labor market as an instrument to raise money to solve an economic problem at home."



    From http://mexicanoccupation.blogspot.co...e-mexicos.html

    LEGISLATORS FROM MEXICO STATE ANGRY AT INFLUX OF MEXICANS RETURNING TO THEIR HOMELAND

    Posted by Kim Priestap

    Can you believe the nerve of these people? Nine state legislators from the Mexican state of Sonora traveled to Tucson to complain about Arizona's new employer crackdown on illegals from Mexico. It seems many Mexican illegals are now returning to their hometowns and the officials in the Sonora state government are ticked. A delegation of nine state legislators from Sonora was in Tucson on Tuesday to say Arizona's new employer sanctions law will have a devastating effect on the Mexican state. At a news conference, the legislators said Sonora - Arizona's southern neighbor, made up of mostly small towns - cannot handle the demand for housing, jobs and schools it will face as illegal Mexican workers here return to their hometowns without jobs or money. The law, which took effect Jan.1, punishes employers who knowingly hire individuals who don't have valid legal documents to work in the United States. Penalties include suspension or loss of a business license. They're teed off because their own citizens are returning to their hometowns, placing a huge burden on their state government. They want to tell them how the law will affect Mexican families on both sides of the border 'How can they pass a law like this?' asked Mexican Rep. Leticia Amparano- Gamez, who represents Nogales. 'There is not one person living in Sonora who does not have a friend or relative working in Arizona,' she said in Spanish. 'Mexico is not prepared for this, for the tremendous problems' it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and sending money to their families return to hometowns in Sonora without jobs, she said. ' We are one family, socially and economically,' she said of the people of Sonora and Arizona. Wrong!!! The United States is a sovereign nation and its states and its citizens are not responsible for the welfare of Mexico's citizens. It's time for the Mexican government to stop parasitically feeding off of the United States and start taking care of its own citizens. Too bad all the states don't pass a law just like it. Maybe that's the answer since congress will not do anything.





    2, The Mexican economy is dependent upon the drug trade that contributes substantial cash to the banking, investment systems and across all economic levels of Mexican life. Not to mention the corruption, payoffs and bribes that are a way of life, making the political class wealthy. We, the US as drug consumers are the biggest customer of Mexico’s illegal drug business, we keep the dopers in business. During the recent economic crises, the 40 billion dollar (estimated to be 80% profit or 32 billion dollars free and clear) per year drug slush fund kept Mexican banks afloat and the investment dollars flowing….This money all came from the good ole US of A, thanks to our government and the policies that refuses to control the border. The short story is that Mexico is a “Narco State” and the same folks that control the drugs also control the illegal traffickers (Coyotes), they are one in the same organization. Perhaps a good example of the corruption and intertwining of Mexico’s government and business would be Carlos Sims, the world’s richest man. In 1997 he was worth 6 billion USD, his fortune is now estimated at 50 to 60 billion USD, and has been linked to nefarious characters in the Mexican government and narco trade. Mexico, while crying crocodile tears really has no reason to stem the flow of illicit narcotics to the US and more importantly the flow of cash back in to Mexico. The narco trade does not affect or impact the wealthy negatively, some cash does flow into the poor sectors of Mexican life and it props up the banks and investment areas of their economy.



    From http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60L0X120100122

    “To put that in perspective: Mexico probably made more money in 2009 moving drugs than it did exporting oil, its single biggest legitimate foreign currency earner.

    From the white Caribbean beaches of Cancun to violent towns on the U.S. border and the beauty parlors of Mexico City's wealthy suburbs, drug cash is everywhere in Mexico. It has even propped up the country's banking system, helping it ride out the financial crisis and aiding the country's economy.

    Smuggled into Mexico mostly from the United States in $100 bills, narco money finds its way onto the books of restaurants, construction firms and bars as drug lords try to legitimize their cash and prevent police from tracing it.

    "Mexico is saturated with this money," said George Friedman, who heads geopolitical analysis firm Stratfor.

    In western Mexico, drug money started pouring into Zapopan and nearby Guadalajara in the 1980s as the Sinaloa cartel bought hospitals and real estate, said Martin Barron, a researcher at the institute that trains Mexico's organized crime prosecutors.

    Now residents in the region known in Mexico for its piety say drug smugglers barely make an effort to disguise themselves.”



    From Stratfor http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/mexico_is_not_a_failed_state_--_its_propped_up_by_drug_money/

    On the whole, Mexico is a tremendous beneficiary of the drug trade. Even if some of the profits are invested overseas, the pool of remaining money flowing into Mexico creates tremendous liquidity in the Mexican economy at a time of global recession. It is difficult to trace where the drug money is going, which follows from its illegality. Certainly, drug dealers would want their money in a jurisdiction where it could not be easily seized even if tracked. U.S. asset seizure laws for drug trafficking make the United States an unlikely haven. Though money clearly flows out of Mexico, the ability of the smugglers to influence the behavior of the Mexican government by investing some of it makes Mexico a likely destination for a substantial portion of such funds.



    The Drug War and Mexican National Interests

    From Mexico’s point of view, interrupting the flow of drugs to the United States is not clearly in the national interest or in that of the economic elite. Observers often dwell on the warfare between smuggling organizations in the northern borderland but rarely on the flow of American money into Mexico. Certainly, that money could corrupt the Mexican state, but it also behaves as money does. It is accumulated and invested, where it generates wealth and jobs. For the Mexican government to become willing to shut off this flow of money, the violence would have to become far more geographically widespread. And given the difficulty of ending the traffic anyway — and that many in the state security and military apparatus benefit from it — an obvious conclusion can be drawn: Namely, it is difficult to foreseescenarios in which the Mexican government could or would stop the drug trade. Instead, Mexico will accept both the pain and the benefits of the drug trade. Mexico’s policy is consistent: It makes every effort to appear to be stopping the drug trade so that it will not be accused of supporting it. The government does not object to disrupting one or more of the smuggling groups, so long as the aggregate inflow of cash does not materially decline. It demonstrates to the United States efforts (albeit inadequate) to tackle the trade, while pointing out very real problems with its military and security apparatus and with its officials in Mexico City. It simultaneously points to the United States as the cause of the problem, given Washington’s failure to control demand or to reduce prices by legalization. And if massive amounts of money pour into Mexico as a result of this U.S. failure, Mexico is not going to refuse it

    Moreover, Mexico has deep historic grievances toward the United States dating back to the Mexican-American War. These have been exacerbated by U.S. immigration policy that the Mexicans see both as insulting and as a threat to their policy of exporting surplus labor north. There is thus no desire to solve the Americans’ problem. Certainly, there are individuals in the Mexican government who wish to stop the smuggling and the inflow of billions of dollars. They will try. But they will not succeed, as too much is at stake. One must ignore public statements and earnest private assurances and instead observe the facts on the ground to understand what’s really going on.







    3, Lastly we have our own corrupt politicos pandering to the Mexican government, Latino groups, special interests in the US desiring cheap labor that absolutely refuse to control the border. We the US tax payer are supporting a corrupt Mexican government, educating their children, supporting a major portion of the Mexican economy, paying to imprison their criminals, paying for the health care of their sick and shoulder the burden of corporations wanting cheap labor. The New York Times even reported that Hugo Chavez is contributing 1.5 million thru Citgo to a Latino advocacy group “To embarrass Bush”.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/04/AR2008080401485.html”Citgo, the Venezuelan-owned oil company, is making a $1.5 million donation to the Silver Spring nonprofit group CASA of Maryland to help fund educational, training and economic development programs for low-income and immigrant workers. The contribution is the latest effort by Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez to reach out to the poor in the United States in what critics call an attempt to curry favor with low-income Americans and embarrass President Bush.”



    The article continues with Chavez’s aim;



    “The donation will be spread over three years to help fund the group's $4.4 million vocational training and economic development program. It will offer day laborers and other low-income workers skills courses in the construction trades, counseling to small business owners and access to social services. One of the programs encourages the formation of worker-owned cooperatives. Chávez has encouraged such cooperatives as part of his so-called Bolivarian Revolution.”



    So you can see that there are many fingers in this pie, and the only people that are truly concerned about the border and its security are we, the American working stiffs that pay the price for everything.

    It is treasonous that our elected representatives allow this to continue on our tax dime and treat us like idiots, that we just can’t understand the issues. It is willful failure by our government; it is treason against the American people to refuse to control our borders.



    Our elected representatives are literally giving our country and wealth away.





    Websites supporting the above statements



    http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60L0X120100122

    http://www.stratfor.com/frontpage
    Steve


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    C'mon man, you're bringing common sense into this, you know that don't work

    What I will say from my experience yesterday, the ILLEGALS must think the law takes effect now because Phoenix was pretty much void of the usual activities. I went to 3 Wally Worlds, 3 thrift stores, and the Golden Corral and I only heard about two people speaking Spanish. Hope they don't find out when it does go into effect, life is pretty good right now. :celebrate

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde

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    1) I think one thread that has nothing to do with the purpose of this forum is plenty; is this really the place to discuss this? It's quite a stretch to tie it in any way to open carry.

    2) I completely agree that we need to take fast, decisive action to fix the problem with illegal aliens. I've written to legislators and donated time and money in effort to stem the flow. Having said that, I still can't support SB1070; it's simply not the right way to fix the problem.

    How does this relate to open carry?

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    Thats odd, I have heard similar stories. There are a lot of hispanics running scared. (Maybe that was the whole intent behind the new law). I am curious to see how the new law will affect American citizens. I have usually viewed illegal immigration as something to be handled on a case by case basis. Not all illegals coming across are trying to cheat the system, and not all are coming across because they want to break the law. Likewise, there are people coming across who are doing just that. Handle it person by person, not the whole group.

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    1) I think one thread that has nothing to do with the purpose of this forum is plenty; is this really the place to discuss this? It's quite a stretch to tie it in any way to open carry.

    2) I completely agree that we need to take fast, decisive action to fix the problem with illegal aliens. I've written to legislators and donated time and money in effort to stem the flow. Having said that, I still can't support SB1070; it's simply not the right way to fix the problem.

    How does this relate to open carry?
    Would the new law cause police to do random checks of persons carrying firearms? I doubt it, but its something to think about.

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    kenpoprofessor wrote:
    C'mon man, you're bringing common sense into this, you know that don't work

    What I will say from my experience yesterday, the ILLEGALS must think the law takes effect now because Phoenix was pretty much void of the usual activities.*** I went to 3 Wally Worlds, 3 thrift stores, and the Golden Corral and I only heard about two people speaking Spanish.** Hope they don't find out when it does go into effect, life is pretty good right now. :celebrate

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day, Clyde
    Noticed the same lack of Spanish conversations in Fry's Market on Swan at Grant, late Saturday afternoon. As usual I OC there. Place was near empty.

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    acmariner99 wrote:
    Not all illegals coming across are trying to cheat the system, and not all are coming across because they want to break the law. Likewise, there are people coming across who are doing just that. Handle it person by person, not the whole group.
    Can I borrow your crystal ball, 'cause I dropped mine the day after I graduated the academy and broke it. I've been doing law enforcement for 16 years, and I still can't forsee who will break laws with certainty.

    I do know that if the're here illegally, they've already broken at least 1 fed law for sure, and now broken an AZ law, and quite probably broken a few more laws based on stories from the border (trespassing on private property, criminal littering, and theft).



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    mzbk2l wrote:
    1) I think one thread that has nothing to do with the purpose of this forum is plenty; is this really the place to discuss this? It's quite a stretch to tie it in any way to open carry.

    2) I completely agree that we need to take fast, decisive action to fix the problem with illegal aliens. I've written to legislators and donated time and money in effort to stem the flow. Having said that, I still can't support SB1070; it's simply not the right way to fix the problem.

    How does this relate to open carry?
    Not Related to Open Carry? Are you sure?

    Well did you miss Sec. of State Clinton's visit to Mexico last year when she blamed the ready access to firearms on the US borderas a major contributing factor in the drug violence in Mexico? In fact she twisted facts to support her contention that we need stricter gun control to stop US made firearms from entering Mexico. I believe the statement was made by her "That 97% of the guns confiscated are from the US" when in fact, 97% of the serial numbers turned over to US authorities were from the US. It was later reported that the Mexican government only gives the US a small portion of the serial numbers of guns confiscated; a vast majority of the gun in Mexico are stolen from the Mexican Army, smuggled in through Central America, some as far as from Brazil. The real number is 13% of the firearms confiscated are from the US (not including US military arms stolen or sold by the Mexican Army to the traffickers), and these arms are not the full autos.

    We have allowed polictians to make the security of our borders a politial issue, and it damn well should not be.

    So, at the end of the day, this issue on our borders could easily impact our right of Open Carry.



    Steve


    Steve


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    acmariner99 wrote:
    I have usually viewed illegal immigration as something to be handled on a case by case basis. Not all illegals coming across are trying to cheat the system, and not all are coming across because they want to break the law.
    Interesting viewpoint, but each and every illegal BROKE the law just crossing in to the US undocumented. By the very method used to enter the US they are scamming the system. You are falling for politicizing and pandering of politicians that has resulted in the failure to control our borders as a sovereign nation.

    What part of illegal do you not agree with?



    Steve
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    .45acp wrote:
    acmariner99 wrote:
    I have usually viewed illegal immigration as something to be handled on a case by case basis. Not all illegals coming across are trying to cheat the system, and not all are coming across because they want to break the law.
    Interesting viewpoint, but each and every illegal BROKE the law just crossing in to the US undocumented. By the very method used to enter the US they are scamming the system. You are falling for politicizing and pandering of politicians that has resulted in the failure to control our borders as a sovereign nation.

    What part of illegal do you not agree with?



    Steve
    I agree with the statement that all illegals broke the law by entering undocumented. But simply kicking them all out is not the way to solve the problem. I know a person or two that entered on legitimate papers but found out later that there were pieces missing. These people were here operating under the impression that their papers were valid. Said persons speak very good english (and insist that I do), work hard for every penny, and get pissed at their own countrymen for abusing the system and failing to respect us as a nation. If you met these people, you would never guess that something isn't right. Would you kick em' out because someone else screwed up? I wouldn't. This is just one example of how the system as a whole really needs an overhaul and this helps explain my viewpoint that each person should be evaluated differently -- add stipulations for staying, sure -- but simply kicking em all out is not the way to solve this problem. We can agree to disagree. God Bless -- Carry on!

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    acmariner99 wrote:
    .45acp wrote:
    acmariner99 wrote:
    *I have usually viewed illegal immigration as something to be handled on a case by case basis. Not all illegals coming across are trying to cheat the system, and not all are coming across because they want to break the law.
    Interesting viewpoint, but each and every illegal BROKE the law just crossing in to the US undocumented. By the very method used to enter the US they are scamming the system. You are falling for politicizing and pandering of politicians that has resulted in the failure to control our borders as a sovereign nation.

    What part of illegal do you not agree with?

    *

    Steve
    I agree with the statement that all illegals broke the law by entering undocumented. But simply kicking them all out is not the way to solve the problem. I know a person or two that entered on legitimate papers but found out later that there were pieces missing. These people were here operating under the impression that their papers were valid. Said persons speak very good english (and insist that I do), work hard for every penny, and get pissed at their own countrymen for abusing the system and failing to respect us as a nation. If you met these people, you would never guess that something isn't right. Would you kick em' out because someone else screwed up? I wouldn't. This is just one example of how the system as a whole really needs an overhaul and this helps explain my viewpoint that each person should be evaluated differently -- add stipulations for staying, sure -- but simply kicking em all out is not the way to solve this problem. We can agree to disagree. God Bless -- Carry on!
    First -- this thread does relate to OC since many Arizona CITIZENS OC anywhere near the Border with Mexico. To not OC a weapon anywhere south of Tucson would be foolish.

    Second -- your friends with faulty legal Immigration papers would be wise to contact a local Attorney who's field is Immigration issues, Green Cards, etc.

    I agree they should not be kicked out of the US, if they entered the US via the legal process.

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    acmariner99 wrote:
    Thats odd, I have heard similar stories. There are a lot of hispanics running scared. (Maybe that was the whole intent behind the new law). I am curious to see how the new law will affect American citizens. I have usually viewed illegal immigration as something to be handled on a case by case basis. Not all illegals coming across are trying to cheat the system, and not all are coming across because they want to break the law. Likewise, there are people coming across who are doing just that. Handle it person by person, not the whole group.
    Your statements areoxymoronic. If they came here ILLEGALLY, they've broken the immigration law, therefore "cheated the system". How you can perceive it any other way is ridiculous.

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde

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    The primary reasonI carry (OC) is my proximity to Mexico and being rather near a smuggling 'corridor' and two primary smugglers roadways. I was in Frye's yesterday (Silverbell and Cortaro) and also noted an absence of hispanics... other than a few womenI've seen there over the years. Coincidence? I dunno.



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    acmariner99 wrote:
    .45acp wrote:
    acmariner99 wrote:
    I have usually viewed illegal immigration as something to be handled on a case by case basis. Not all illegals coming across are trying to cheat the system, and not all are coming across because they want to break the law.
    Interesting viewpoint, but each and every illegal BROKE the law just crossing in to the US undocumented. By the very method used to enter the US they are scamming the system. You are falling for politicizing and pandering of politicians that has resulted in the failure to control our borders as a sovereign nation.

    What part of illegal do you not agree with?



    Steve
    I agree with the statement that all illegals broke the law by entering undocumented. But simply kicking them all out is not the way to solve the problem. I know a person or two that entered on legitimate papers but found out later that there were pieces missing. These people were here operating under the impression that their papers were valid. Said persons speak very good english (and insist that I do), work hard for every penny, and get pissed at their own countrymen for abusing the system and failing to respect us as a nation. If you met these people, you would never guess that something isn't right. Would you kick em' out because someone else screwed up? I wouldn't. This is just one example of how the system as a whole really needs an overhaul and this helps explain my viewpoint that each person should be evaluated differently -- add stipulations for staying, sure -- but simply kicking em all out is not the way to solve this problem. We can agree to disagree. God Bless -- Carry on!



    Interesting would you feel that way if the people coming in Illegal in that large a number were from Iraq or Iran or even Europe for that matter? Somehow I doubt it



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    Most people around Phoenix don't seem to understand that new laws don't take effect until 90 days after the legislative session ends. I keep getting people I know telling me about how AZ now doesn't require a permit to CC, and I have to keep correcting them and tell them that it's not an active legal change yet.

    I'm sure there are plenty of morons out there who don't understand that the new immigration law isn't on the books yet.

    After all, these are the same people who don't know that the new law specifically prohibits racial profiling and that Brewer ordered additional anti-racial-profiling training for police.

    These pendejos think it took effect last week and that it specifically targets people by race.

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    DustoneGT wrote:
    Most people around Phoenix don't seem to understand that new laws don't take effect until 90 days after the legislative session ends. I keep getting people I know telling me about how AZ now doesn't require a permit to CC, and I have to keep correcting them and tell them that it's not an active legal change yet.

    I'm sure there are plenty of morons out there who don't understand that the new immigration law isn't on the books yet.

    After all, these are the same people who don't know that the new law specifically prohibits racial profiling and that Brewer ordered additional anti-racial-profiling training for police.

    These pendejos think it took effect last week and that it specifically targets people by race.
    This law is the point of much hyperbole and rhetorical blithering. Once a subject becomes political, little truth is broadcast by the media.
    Steve


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    hey 45acp, range rat here, from wisconsin..any change i can get you yo post this in wisconsin under new topics... you hit the nail right on the head!!

    watch your six..

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    Arizona can probably,...er, CAN, do the job of The United States Federal Government better than The United States Federal Government.

    Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.

    Arizona does not belong to Mexico, because; the last time I checked, Mexico lost that War.



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    mzbk2l wrote:
    1) I think one thread that has nothing to do with the purpose of this forum is plenty; is this really the place to discuss this? It's quite a stretch to tie it in any way to open carry.

    2) I completely agree that we need to take fast, decisive action to fix the problem with illegal aliens. I've written to legislators and donated time and money in effort to stem the flow. Having said that, I still can't support SB1070; it's simply not the right way to fix the problem.

    How does this relate to open carry?
    What this has to do with open carry is that the South West United States is being invaded, over-run and by illegals crossing the Southern border. If the take over succeeds - OC will no longer be an issue . Mexican law will render your U.S. Constitution and 2A null & void .

    This issue regarding Arizona's new law directly afftects ALL of our rights. Texas will probably be the next state to have to take illegal entry matters into its own hands given the arrested state of the U.S. federal government. I take my hat off to the people of Arizona for doing what needs to be done.

    By the way - my wife is of Mexican decent, being the granddaughter of an illegal who walked 200 miles into the U.S. to escape theFederales after riding with Pancho Villa - and guess what - she can spot an an illegal Mexican immigrant from a block away.



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    Wait just one minute folks -- we don't need no steekin' SB 1070, 'cause THE BORDER IS SECURE! (No need to OC a weapon along the border)

    In the Tuesday edition of the Phoenix Arizona Republic, "Janet" sez so......

    Homeland Security Chief Janet Napolitano: border secure as it's ever been

    Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano this morning gave assurances that she’s made tremendous progress on securing the border, telling the Senate Judicary Committee that it's "as secure now as it's ever been."

    But when asked by Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., if it's secure, Napolitano called it "an unfair question."

    Graham shot back: "It is a fair question, and I'll give you my answer: I don't think it is. I think since the last effort to solve immigration the border situation has deteriorated."

    Graham went on to say that it'll be "impossible" to do anything about comprehensive immigration reform until people on the border feel secure.

    Translation: you can forget about immigration reform anytime soon, because nobody in Arizona is buying what Napolitano is selling.


    In prepared remarks for the Judiciary Committee, Napolitano said that since taking office 15 months ago, she has deployed “unprecedented resources” to combat transnational crime and drug-related violence and made “major progress” in combating the drug cartels that threaten both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border.

    “I believe we have the right strategy, the right partners and the necessary commitment to continue making unparalleled progress in creating a safe and secure Southwest border,” she said.

    Napolitano said that since the death of Cochise County rancher Rob Krentz, DHS has “surged resources” in the area, deploying additional air support and mobile surveillance systems. Additional Border Patrol agents were also brought to the Douglas area, though she didn’t say how many.

    She also touted an increase in "proven, effective technology" deployed on the border, a doubling of the Border Patrol since 2004, a tripling an intelligence analysts focused on the border in the last year and added fencing built at the border, along with more collaborative efforts with Mexican authorities.

    It was what she didn’t say in her remarks Tuesday that was most interesting. Not one word about continued pleas from Arizona and other border states to return the National Guard to the border.

    I seem to recall a time not so long ago when Napolitano thought that having a guard presence at the border was crucial to our safety and security. Just two years ago, as the previous administration's Operation Jump Start was ending, then-Arizona Gov. Napolitano pleaded with her predecessor, Michael Chertoff, to leave troops at the border until the "virtual" fence became operational in 2011 (or as it now turns out, never).

    "The federal government has no excuse to scale back the program," Napolitano wrote to Chertoff in March 2008. "Common sense dictates that the drawdown should stop and that a continued high National Guard presence should be maintained."

    A month later, she warned congressional leaders that halting the operation would be "irresponsible."

    This morning, not one word about the need for troops on the border.

    Tuesday, April 27, 2010 at 11:17 AM

  21. #21
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    Janet Napolitano is full of crap up to her ears.

    One of the best things that happened to Arizona was her move to Homeland Security. One of the worst things that happened to Arizona was her move to Homeland Security.


    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

  22. #22
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    Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.
    I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

    I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

    You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

    Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

    I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.

  23. #23
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    IA_farmboy wrote:
    Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.
    I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

    I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

    You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

    Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

    I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.
    Uh, you ever heard of the 9th and 10th amendments? The government doesn't give rights to states.

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde

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    IA_farmboy wrote:
    Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.


    I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.


    Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

    I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.
    Farm Boy,

    You appear to be one of these big government fans that think the states operate at the Federal Governments whim....WRONG.....The states derive their powers from the constitution. AZ took this action EXACTLY DUE TO THE FEDS FAILURE TO ENFORCE THE BORDER......It really is not that difficult to understand. The AZ law closely mirrors Fed law, so in effect AZ will be using AZ statues to get rid of an illegal population of alien nationals that are in AZ ILLEGALLY......Try an read between the lines (Or Not) these people should not be here in the first place. Since AZ will use AZ statues it would appear that you concept of AZ exercising control over immigration is wrong….AZ will determine if a person is committing a crime by being here illegally. It has nothing to do with immigration; a person of legal status will still get entry paper at the border points.

    And just so you know, the BP asks for ID when in doubt as to citizenship or on a contact in the boonies close to the border….I should know, I am typing this 8 miles from the border and about 35 miles from where Robert Krentz was murdered and run into the BP daily.

    All that said you seem to have your panties in a real twist over this….It begs the question…why? This law does not affect you, and you have no understanding of the problem. Are you worried that your illegal farm help won’t make up to IA this year? If so, just have em go through New Mexico or Kaliforna….one of those nice Democratic state soooo sympathetic to the illegals. We in AZ are FED up with the federal government’s pandering to Mexico. Control the border and the problems is greatly reduced, since the fed refuses to control the border AZ can and will control the illegal population.



    Steve




    Steve


    "Life is hard, its even harder when you are stupid!"

  25. #25
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    kenpoprofessor wrote:
    IA_farmboy wrote:
    Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.
    I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

    I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

    You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

    Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

    I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.
    Uh, you ever heard of the 9th and 10th amendments?*** The government doesn't give rights to states.

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde
    I didn't say the federal government gives rights to the states. The federal government is a construct of the states. That is the states created the federal government by handing over certain powers to that government so that a nation could be created. A few of those powers was the defense of the nation against foreign invaders, the naturalization of citizens, and the creation of courts to enforce those laws. These powers are very important for the creation of a nation since we cannot have one state decide the rules of immigration that another state would have to live with, it must be done as a whole nation. Without a uniform set of rules on immigration there is no longer one nation.

    Part of the Constitution is the rules the states imposed upon themselves. If Arizona didn't like the rules in the Constitution then it should not have joined the Union. Since it has joined the Union it has to live by those rules, change the rules, or leave the Union.

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