The Problem on the Border

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Janet Napolitano is full of crap up to her ears.

One of the best things that happened to Arizona was her move to Homeland Security. One of the worst things that happened to Arizona was her move to Homeland Security.

:cuss:

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Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.

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I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.

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IA_farmboy wrote:

Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.

Click to expand...

I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.

Click to expand...

Uh, you ever heard of the 9th and 10th amendments? The government doesn't give rights to states.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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IA_farmboy wrote:

Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.

Click to expand...

I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.


Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.

Click to expand...

Farm Boy,

You appear to be one of these big government fans that think the states operate at the Federal Governments whim....WRONG.....The states derive their powers from the constitution. AZ took this action EXACTLY DUE TO THE FEDS FAILURE TO ENFORCE THE BORDER......It really is not that difficult to understand. The AZ law closely mirrors Fed law, so in effect AZ will be using AZ statues to get rid of an illegal population of alien nationals that are in AZ ILLEGALLY......Try an read between the lines (Or Not) these people should not be here in the first place. Since AZ will use AZ statues it would appear that you concept of AZ exercising control over immigration is wrong….AZ will determine if a person is committing a crime by being here illegally. It has nothing to do with immigration; a person of legal status will still get entry paper at the border points.

And just so you know, the BP asks for ID when in doubt as to citizenship or on a contact in the boonies close to the border….I should know, I am typing this 8 miles from the border and about 35 miles from where Robert Krentz was murdered and run into the BP daily.

All that said you seem to have your panties in a real twist over this….It begs the question…why? This law does not affect you, and you have no understanding of the problem. Are you worried that your illegal farm help won’t make up to IA this year? If so, just have em go through New Mexico or Kaliforna….one of those nice Democratic state soooo sympathetic to the illegals. We in AZ are FED up with the federal government’s pandering to Mexico. Control the border and the problems is greatly reduced, since the fed refuses to control the border AZ can and will control the illegal population.



Steve

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kenpoprofessor wrote:

IA_farmboy wrote:

Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.

Click to expand...

I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.

Click to expand...

Uh, you ever heard of the 9th and 10th amendments?    The government doesn't give rights to states.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Click to expand...

I didn't say the federal government gives rights to the states. The federal government is a construct of the states. That is the states created the federal government by handing over certain powers to that government so that a nation could be created. A few of those powers was the defense of the nation against foreign invaders, the naturalization of citizens, and the creation of courts to enforce those laws. These powers are very important for the creation of a nation since we cannot have one state decide the rules of immigration that another state would have to live with, it must be done as a whole nation. Without a uniform set of rules on immigration there is no longer one nation.

Part of the Constitution is the rules the states imposed upon themselves. If Arizona didn't like the rules in the Constitution then it should not have joined the Union. Since it has joined the Union it has to live by those rules, change the rules, or leave the Union.

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IA_farmboy wrote:

kenpoprofessor wrote:

IA_farmboy wrote:

Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.

Click to expand...

I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.

Click to expand...

Uh, you ever heard of the 9th and 10th amendments?    The government doesn't give rights to states.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Click to expand...

I didn't say the federal government gives rights to the states. The federal government is a construct of the states. That is the states created the federal government by handing over certain powers to that government so that a nation could be created. A few of those powers was the defense of the nation against foreign invaders, the naturalization of citizens, and the creation of courts to enforce those laws. These powers are very important for the creation of a nation since we cannot have one state decide the rules of immigration that another state would have to live with, it must be done as a whole nation. Without a uniform set of rules on immigration there is no longer one nation.

Part of the Constitution is the rules the states imposed upon themselves. If Arizona didn't like the rules in the Constitution then it should not have joined the Union. Since it has joined the Union it has to live by those rules, change the rules, or leave the Union.

Click to expand...

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GWbiker wrote:

IA_farmboy wrote:

kenpoprofessor wrote:

IA_farmboy wrote:

Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.

Click to expand...

I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.

Click to expand...

Uh, you ever heard of the 9th and 10th amendments? The government doesn't give rights to states.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Click to expand...

I didn't say the federal government gives rights to the states. The federal government is a construct of the states. That is the states created the federal government by handing over certain powers to that government so that a nation could be created. A few of those powers was the defense of the nation against foreign invaders, the naturalization of citizens, and the creation of courts to enforce those laws. These powers are very important for the creation of a nation since we cannot have one state decide the rules of immigration that another state would have to live with, it must be done as a whole nation. Without a uniform set of rules on immigration there is no longer one nation.

Part of the Constitution is the rules the states imposed upon themselves. If Arizona didn't like the rules in the Constitution then it should not have joined the Union. Since it has joined the Union it has to live by those rules, change the rules, or leave the Union.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yea, It would seem that if you don't want to get it...you won't.:banghead:

This shit agian is right......

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IA_farmboy wrote:

kenpoprofessor wrote:

IA_farmboy wrote:

Arizona, although Constitutionally barred under Article 1 Section 8 Paragraph 4, is 'Fed'-up with this mess.

Click to expand...

I was recently made aware of a California law that was struck down a few years ago. It was very similar to the recently signed Arizona law. California, already short on dinero, felt it needed to defend it's law in court and spent lots of that quickly diminishing dinero to do so.

I can't recall the details but some law enforcement agency in the Midwest decided to enforce immigration law. The federal government responded by no longer answering the phone. That left them unable to deal with the illegal aliens they already caught.

You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger and don't mess with the federal government on immigration.

Arizona can't go around asking people for "papers". Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without getting the federal government's permission and cooperation. Arizona cannot take that permission through legislation, it must be given.

I sympathize with Arizona's plight but they must act within the rules. The rules say they cannot take on immigration law themselves. If these illegal aliens are breaking state laws then enforce state laws. Trespass, murder, kidnapping, vandalism, theft, and so on are state law and can be enforced against even illegal aliens. Find them, charge them, send them to court. Even illegal aliens deserve a fair trial. If found guilty then send them to prison for a very long time.

Click to expand...

Uh, you ever heard of the 9th and 10th amendments? The government doesn't give rights to states.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Click to expand...

I didn't say the federal government gives rights to the states. The federal government is a construct of the states. That is the states created the federal government by handing over certain powers to that government so that a nation could be created. A few of those powers was the defense of the nation against foreign invaders, the naturalization of citizens, and the creation of courts to enforce those laws. These powers are very important for the creation of a nation since we cannot have one state decide the rules of immigration that another state would have to live with, it must be done as a whole nation. Without a uniform set of rules on immigration there is no longer one nation.

Part of the Constitution is the rules the states imposed upon themselves. If Arizona didn't like the rules in the Constitution then it should not have joined the Union. Since it has joined the Union it has to live by those rules, change the rules, or leave the Union.

Click to expand...

IA_f, since the Federal Government has arguably abandoned their responsibilities vis-a-vis border security, and Arizona Citizens are being killed and injured beacause of that abandonment, I think it defensible that under the 9th and 10th Amendment, Arizona may re-assert control over protecting it's Citizens and territory. Not sure how that would wash out in Court, but unless the Feds start doing the job, they can't do anything but yap if we start doing it for them.

I'm not sure how chucking out illegal immigrants would itself be illegal. :uhoh: Is there a law that says we can't? And if so, who's going to enforce it? If they have manpower to do that, they can do the origonal job...

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IA_farmboy wrote:

Part of the Constitution is the rules the states imposed upon themselves. If Arizona didn't like the rules in the Constitution then it should not have joined the Union. Since it has joined the Union it has to live by those rules, change the rules, or leave the Union.

Click to expand...

It didn't... The Confederate Territory of Arizona (which Included New Mexico to the Texas border) was created in 1861 when what was known as the 'Gadsdens' seceded from the Union when the Federal Army of Abraham Lincoln completely abandoned Arizona to the predations of the Apache, Yavapai and Yaqui. Arizona wasinvaded and occupied in 1862 (from Union California) until 1865.Thus siezed and subjected to 'Reconstruction', it remained a US Territory until 1912, as did New Mexico. 51 years after secession... a lifetime for those involved in that.

This isn't the first time the Feds have turned a blind eye to Arizona being predated upon... 'n not the first time Arizona has cowboy'd up in spite of 'em either.

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lostone1413 wrote:

acmariner9

Interesting would you feel that way if the people coming in Illegal in that large a number were from Iraq or Iran or even Europe for that matter? Somehow I doubt it

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Go to Miami to find out. I don't think anyone there speaks English anymore. Nor is Spanish the Primary Language. Russian, Italian, French.... If you speak English and are White; run. It's not even a joke; you will be killed.

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ixtow wrote:

lostone1413 wrote:

acmariner9

Interesting would you feel that way if the people coming in Illegal in that large a number were from Iraq or Iran or even Europe for that matter? Somehow I doubt it

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Go to Miami to find out. I don't think anyone there speaks English anymore. Nor is Spanish the Primary Language. Russian, Italian, French.... If you speak English and are White; run. It's not even a joke; you will be killed.

Click to expand...

I agree I know a few people born and raised in Dade County that have moved to Arizona. Back in the 70s or 80s when all the boat people from Cuba stated coming in I knew many that use to vacation in Miami. All quit going their because the crime and drug smuggling made it such a high crime area

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Given the number of "Illegal Migrants" being held captive in various drop houses across the country I would think the subject of Slavery might be discussed as part of the reasoning for stopping this traffic. Are we to read opposition of 1070 to equal support for human Slavery?

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Texas and Utah are now drafting similiar bills.

Can Obama and the feds defy states rights and citizens wishes ?

This is the epitomy of a previous dispute in America about states rights.

I predict the second version of the American Civil War.