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Thread: NYC People Ignore Good-Samaritan Bleeding To Death

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Too bad this Good Samaritan didn't have a gun to defend himself and the woman...



    People Ignore Good-Samaritan Bleeding To Death

    By MICHELLE J. ROBINSON wpix.com

    11:37 PM EDT, April 24, 2010

    [http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-...6142530.story] video

    JAMAICA, N.Y. - Dozens of people walked passed a homeless-man-turned-good-samaritan, who was stabbed multiple times, after he came to the rescue of a woman, who was also being stabbed. The incident came to light from surveillance video, later obtained by The New York Post.

    Police say 31-year-old Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax died after he lay face down on the street bleeding for close to an hour-and-half, during the early morning hours of Sunday, April 18 at 88-th Road and 144th Street in Jamaica.

    Parts of the video caught people turning their heads while others stopped, gawked, and went on their way. Then, a man stopped, shook the body, turned him over to find Tale-Yax lying in a pool of blood, stabbed several times in the chest; he took off. Another man took a picture with his cell phone before he left, according The Post report.

    Firefighters were responding to a 9-1-1 call of a non-life-threatening injury, when they came across the homeless man. By then, it was too late; Tale-Yax was already dead. His killer is still on the loose, and the woman he saved is nowhere to be found.

    She's described as 5'3", thin build, wearing a 3/4 length jacket and a skirt; the suspect has been described as a 5'6" male, medium build, wearing a green, short-sleeved shirt, dark pants and a green hat. He was last spotted running from the scene, knife in hand.

    The shocking indifference to a dying man is reminiscent of the infamous, March 1964 murder of Kitty Genovese in Kew Gardens, Queens. Reports at the time said Genovese screamed for help as she was being stabbed to death by rapist and serial killer, but no one came to her aid, or called police.

    The murder led to a social psychological phenomenon that came to be known as the "Bystander Effect," which experts say works as follows: the greater the number of people present, the less likely people are to help someone in trouble. And when there's an emergency, onlookers are more likely to act, if there are few or no other witnesses around.


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    This right here is why I love Germany.

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    Viorel wrote:
    This right here is why I love Germany.
    I kinda love America.

    This story is an illustration of the danger of relying on government for everything. In this case, the woman who was saved by the man who died did not see that she had any responsibility to help him. She didn't even call 911. All the people who just walked by clearly felt that even checking on the man was not their job. The man who rolled the victim over was likely just satisfying his curiosity. However, once having determined that the man was in danger of dying, or already dead, he decided that this situation was above his pay grade.

    The only person in this situation who felt any responsibility for others is now dead.

    More and more, those who would rule us want us to rely on them and not ourselves. And, we sheepishly comply. To our own detriment.

    Relative to this site, most LEOs would just as soon we not OC, but rely on them for our protection.

    Don't get me wrong. I respect the hell out of the police. They put themselves at risk protecting us in ways we haven't protected or can't protect ourselves. However, we should not rely on them solely, just like we should rely on no government agency solely for meeting any of our needs.

    What made America great (the lack of which is putting us in decline) is personal power combined with personal responsibility. Over the years we have been allowing the taking of our personal responsibility, which is facilitating the taking of our personal power through the restriction of rights.

    If we want our rights fully restored, we must first yank responsibility back from those who would rule us.

    _____________________________


    ETA the word "of" where it was left out.

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    What does Germany have to do with this? The "Bystander Effect" isn't a uniquely American phenomenon.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Viorel wrote:
    This right here is why I love Germany.
    Yeah, because nothing bad ever happens in Germany...

    http://www.allgov.com/ViewNews/Germa..._Father_100403

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/18/wo...l?pagewanted=1

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8325451.stm

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...10/2869272.htm

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-8186243.html

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...634842,00.html

    http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/09...d_wars_murder/

    http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English...=3.1.172081962


    And with regards to "non-helpful bystanders". I think we all know Germany's record on THAT issue already....

    But discussing that would be treading awfully close to a "Godwins Law" infraction, so we'll just leave it at that.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Dreamer wrote:
    Viorel wrote:
    This right here is why I love Germany.
    Yeah, because nothing bad ever happens in Germany...

    http://www.allgov.com/ViewNews/Germa..._Father_100403

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/18/wo...l?pagewanted=1

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8325451.stm

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...10/2869272.htm

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-8186243.html

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...634842,00.html

    http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/09...d_wars_murder/

    http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English...=3.1.172081962


    And with regards to "non-helpful bystanders". I think we all know Germany's record on THAT issue already....

    But discussing that would be treading awfully close to a "Godwins Law" infraction, so we'll just leave it at that.
    Paralipsis Alert!!!!

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    This is sad... especially that the lady he saved just said, "forget him, I'm only going to worry about myself"

    Where were all of the New York City "save the poor" and "feed the homeless" liberals when this happened? Oh yeah, they were the ones walking by expecting the government to save this guy, its not their job.

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    I first heard about care-less people of NYC when the Kitty Genovese incident happened (1964). The POSstabbed her, she was screaming and people heard her but no one helped. And while she lay dying, the POS raped her, then stole $49 off her. Later on, he did violence to other people, too (overpowered a guardand took hostages, raping one of them in front of her husband). Said POS Winston Moseley, although in jail, is still alive. Why?

    And then I remember the time a woman (don't recall name) in NYC used a hat pin to ward-off an attacker. She was charged with carrying a concealed weapon. WTH is wrong with those people in New York (the City and legislature AND the stupid people of NY who vote for them) -- besides being cluless liberals?

    And don't get me started on POS former NYC mayorEd Koch and how liberal anti-gun policies he fully supported (and still does) in NYC gave Trisha Meili no way to defend herself against the gang of POS teens who ran her down and raped/beat her almost to death. This was in 1989.

    American 'justice' is an American disgrace. And IMO, NYC is a cess-pool of cold, greedy people...and WAY too many criminals. The people of NYC have always had a reputation of being cold,crabby, selfish,money-grubbing and care-less people. This latest incident does nothing to dispel that notion. And now, the name Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax can be added to New York City's -- and the NY Legislature -- Hall of Shame.

    I'm sureHugo will have astation in heaven above all those who walked by him as he bled to death...as one can do no more than give one's life for another.

    And the sorry POS who stabbed him -- and who probably has a long rap sheet like all the rest of his ilk and shouldn't even BE on the street -- lives on to do it again to someone else...

    I must admit that I not only want to get rid of ALL low-lifes PERMANENTLY, but also the people who have enabled them to exist. That's a whole lot of people but that'show I feel about it. When something is let go for so long, only such 'drastic' action can clean it up. And it's not the fault of the people who have to clean up, it's the fault of those who let it get so bad and didn't take care of it in the beginning...whichshould be a charge of criminal negligence at the very least!

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Haha, I love it when being pro-anything non mainstream America is being anti-american.

    This story is an illustration of the danger of relying on government for everything.
    Let me offer something else.

    "This story is an illustration of how distant citizens have become from something as simple as being neighborly." The bum, an obvious reject of society apparently had no problem understanding that.

    The finger-pointing game can be played all day long, but in the end, not a single person could be bothered to assist someone who was in distress when they themselves weren't in danger.

    What does Germany have to do with this?
    Duty to rescue...something I favor because idiots (like these people) can't grasp the concept that the world is bigger than just them.


    Yeah, because nothing bad ever happens in Germany...
    Premature you think? Read above

    You must not be Jewish.
    It's 2010. Come out of your shell. I promise, the sunlight won't hurt when it hits your skin.

    This is sad... especially that the lady he saved just said, "forget him, I'm only going to worry about myself" Where were all of the New York City "save the poor" and "feed the homeless" liberals when this happened? Oh yeah, they were the ones walking by expecting the government to save this guy, its not their job.
    I know right? The irony is disgusting.



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    You still didn't answer my question. Are you supposing Germans feel a duty to respond and Americans do not?

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    Actually, I did answer your question.

    What you're referring to was specifically relating to the "Bystander Effect". Since my point wasn't about the Bystander Effect (it was about Duty to Rescue), and by the rules of grammar, there was no necessity (implied or otherwise) to respond to your non-question.

    Now, you're epically failing at an attempt to bait me into some kind of anti-american stance...all because I favor a (albeit ridiculous) law that forces people to be human beings. Honestly, do you need a piece of legislation to inform your necessity to wipe your backside?

    Though, your lack of cleverness is noted.

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    Viorel, the first posts you made here were thoughtful and added immensely to the discussion. They weren't reactionary, but instead responsive, regardless of how antagonistic the posts you were responding to. I hope to see those posts again.

    On point: Yes, we have a moral duty to rescue. My point is that the government has provided so much for us, that many think only the government has the duty to rescue. We have lost our sense of duty to others and to ourselves.

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    eye95 wrote:
    ...

    What made America great (the lack of which is putting us in decline) is personal power combined with personal responsibility. Over the years we have been allowing the taking of our personal responsibility, which is facilitating the taking of our personal power through the restriction of rights.

    If we want our rights fully restored, we must first yank responsibility back from those who would rule us.
    Well, all I can hope is that:

    Over there, over there,
    Send the word, send the word over there -
    That the yanks are coming,
    The yanks are coming,
    The drums rum-tumming
    Ev'rywhere.


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    Actually Eyes, based on previous (and unfortunately short) discussions with you in other topics, I assure you, the intent of my comments in response to yours will always be responsive.

    Yes, we have a moral duty to rescue. My point is that the government has provided so much for us, that many think only the government has the duty to rescue. We have lost our sense of duty to others and to ourselves.
    I completely understand.

    My point is it's a shame that a law (which it is in Germany, hence my initial comment) has to be enacted to remind people that they should call for first responders, but I gladly support the intent. Basically, do I agree that there should be a civil/criminal penalties for those who don't make an effort?

    Abso-fbomb-lutely.

    That homeless guy had as much right to live as any one of us, but because of the complete lack of effort during numerous opportunities, he suffered for well over an hour before he passed.



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    Viorel wrote:
    Actually Eyes, based on previous (and unfortunately short) discussions with you in other topics, I assure you, the intent of my comments in response to yours will always be responsive.

    Yes, we have a moral duty to rescue. My point is that the government has provided so much for us, that many think only the government has the duty to rescue. We have lost our sense of duty to others and to ourselves.
    I completely understand.

    My point is it's a shame that a law (which it is in Germany, hence my initial comment) has to be enacted to remind people that they should call for first responders, but I gladly support the intent. Basically, do I agree that there should be a civil/criminal penalties for those who don't make an effort?

    Abso-fbomb-lutely.

    That homeless guy had as much right to live as any one of us, but because of the complete lack of effort during numerous opportunities, he suffered for well over an hour before he passed.
    I would agree with any law that protected folks who try to help--good Samaritan laws. I would not mind legislative resolutions exhorting citizens to be dutiful to each other. I would not accept a law requiring us to help each other. I just don't want government determining what duty I have to others. I'll leave that to God and my conscience. I want to be the kind of person who would have done something for that man in NY. Not having ever been in that situation...
    _____________________

    Please don't think I was complaining about how you were talking to me. You have responded to me with the utmost civility. I just fear that the less savory posting habits of others are tainting yours when you reply to them. I hope I am wrong.

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    I don't see it as black & white as that though.

    Granted those people aren't criminally responsible for his death (as in actually physically harming him), but they SHOULD be responsible in civil court.

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    The problem would be proving criminal intent. Folks will claim that they thought he was passed out drunk--and those claims may well be true. So, for a law to be effective, it would have to assume intent based on actions (or lack thereof), and that is dangerous lawmaking.

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    I don't think you could have said any words more truer.

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    HankT wrote:
    Paralipsis Alert!!!!
    And for issuing a "Paralipsis Alert", I hereby award HankT with the "2-Bit Word of the Day Award."

    Bravo, Hank!

    It's not often that someone on an internet forum makes me pull out my dictionary...

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    HankT wrote:
    Too bad this Good Samaritan didn't have a gun to defend himself and the woman...



    People Ignore Good-Samaritan Bleeding To Death

    By MICHELLE J. ROBINSON wpix.com

    11:37 PM EDT, April 24, 2010

    http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-...,6142530.story
    video
    Hope that fixes the bad link. It had an extra ] at the end...



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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Hi.

    Off topic, maybe? I once confronted a guy, looked like a pimp tome,seriously bashing a woman to the floor in a take-away shop in Sydney Australia. Shock horror,only to be told by her to "F-OFF" and mind my own business? Obviously she was more ballsy than him andloved the guy and maybe she need a bashing!

    Just joking now, no woman deserves a bashing, I swear. I think she was worriedI might have re-arranged his beautiful girly looks?

    I would never walk by anyone lying in the streed and leave them, bleeding or not.

    Haz.
    When a criminal invades your home and has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.

    My Definition of Gun Control: The idea that dozens of people found dead in the Broadway Café, Tasmania, and many also seriously wounded, all while waiting for police, who were called to show up and protect them, is somehow morally superior to having several armed and therefore alive civilian's explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    NYC - 8 million rude people that could give a flying crap less about the next guy. This is why NYC has those anti Gun laws..because the people of the city & state don't care about anything but themselves & their own little worlds.
    To New Yorkers, Chicago residents, LA & other mega population centers people just don't care about others , it's everyman for him self. F everyone else...NO UNITY.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Off topic, maybe? I once confronted a guy, looked like a pimp to me, seriously bashing a woman to the floor in a take-away shop in Sydney Australia. Shock horror, only to be told by her to "F-OFF" and mind my own business?
    This is actually a problem when dealing with domestic calls.

    One party calls for assistance, which usually results in 2 minimum showing. Once the caller finds out that her man is being apprehended, she suddenly objects &at times, the caller assaults the LEO physically. She didn't want him taken away, she just wanted him to stop.

    Thank OJ for that.

    But yeah, a bit off-topic.

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    "Actually, I did answer your question."
    Actually you deflected the question quite politically.

    "Now, you're epically (sic) failing at an attempt to bait me into some kind of anti-american stance...all because I favor a (albeit ridiculous) law that forces people to be human beings. Honestly, do you need a piece of legislation to inform your necessity to wipe your backside?"

    Your supposition implied the very insulting notion that the average American was inclined to ignore a victim and the average German was inclined to help. How did you respond to my legitimate question? With vicious and ridiculous accusations. It was a simple question, viorel, and you pawned the question off again. While I was looking for a competent, fruitful dialog--you were apparently more concerned with going on the defense and saving face.

    As for the issue of the law, perhaps SOME Americans are hesitant to get involved with victims for fear of ridiculous lawsuits. Here in America, we don't need a nanny-state. Do we really need to legislate every single moral law? Just because this isolated event happened, does not mean that this is a persistent problem nation-wide.

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    Glock34 wrote:
    NYC - 8 million rude people that could give a flying crap less about the next guy. This is why NYC has those anti Gun laws..because the people of the city & state don't care about anything but themselves & their own little worlds.
    To New Yorkers, Chicago residents, LA & other mega population centers people just don't care about others , it's everyman for him self. F everyone else...NO UNITY.
    Targeted and insulting generalization is the kind of point I expect to be raised by the antis. I hope we are better than that.

    I am sure that many people in NYC would've helped this man. The actions of a few dozen (whose motives we can only guess) do not represent the potential actions of 8 million people.

    Furthermore, to extrapolate from NYC to the State completely ignores the significant social, cultural, demographic, etc. differences between the city and the rest of the State.

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