New Mexico no longer recognizes Utah Carry Permit

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I would like to hear your opinions on the following changes I would recommend to the Utah permit:

Utah CCW permits issued to non-Utah residents are valid only while in the state of Utah.

Utah should provide an option to qualify in a particular weapon and have that stamped onto your licence, or on a separate qualification card for a small additional fee. This option would allow the Utah permit to be recognized by states with more stringent requirements. It would not be required in order to carry that weapon in Utah.

I also think it is a shame for states like Arizona and NM to deny Utah permits based on not meeting their training requirements. Anytime you compare two states training requirements, you are going to have one state more stringent than the other. Therefore, a universal reciprocity type of situation would be impossible. I could understand it for non-Utah residents, but I do not agree with doing it to Utah resident permit holders. Whatever happend to the idea of the "United" states?

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redreed wrote:

Utah CCW permits issued to non-Utah residents are valid only while in the state of Utah.

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Utah doesn't get to tell other states that they may not honor Utah permits. Each state decides what it will and won't accept.

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redreed wrote:

Utah should provide an option to qualify in a particular weapon and have that stamped onto your licence, or on a separate qualification card for a small additional fee. This option would allow the Utah permit to be recognized by states with more stringent requirements. It would not be required in order to carry that weapon in Utah.

I also think it is a shame for states like Arizona and NM to deny Utah permits based on not meeting their training requirements. Anytime you compare two states training requirements, you are going to have one state more stringent than the other. Therefore, a universal reciprocity type of situation would be impossible. I could understand it for non-Utah residents, but I do not agree with doing it to Utah resident permit holders. Whatever happend to the idea of the "United" states?

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redreed Swilden is right about your first suggestion. As to your suggestion about qualifying with a particualr type of weapon I am opposed. I do think that shooting as part of a ccw class is prudent, however we should not be limited as to the types of guns we can carry based upon some arbitrary qualification. If I want to carry a revolver one day concealed and then a semi auto the next day it is my choice and I would carry each under very different circumstances.

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There are two approaches to this problem and the first and preferredone isn't going to fly for a while. That is doing just like AZ and not require permits at all. This is the goal but is going to be hard for the other 47 states to join that movement. Right now we should work to push this along but the all or nothing idea is not going to get us where we want to be and going to wind up with nothing taking that stance.

The second option as much as everyone hates it is the permit option. Lots of people like to push the FL and UT permits over any others. As some have pointed out some instructors in NM have told their students just get the UT permit and don't worry about the NM one. This is causing a backlash seemingly all over the place. States are complaining that residents of that state are ignoring their "requirements" and just going to some state where the process is easier and less stringent. SC along with a few other states will not honor a non-resident permit. Some states say that if you are a resident of that state you must have a permit from that state. I believe that FL is such a state that if you are a FL resident then the only permit you can use is a FL permit. I really don't have any objections to that requirement.

There was a situation that an 18 year-old resident of NC could not get a NC permit as the minimum age is 21. However this person figured out a way to get permits from two other states and then it was legal for him to CC in NC. As I understand and he posted that he checked with all necessary authorities that indeed it was legal.

So when we start finding way to get around certain laws and intents of the legislatures that made the laws then we need to start looking how much of a backlash this is going to cause. Instructors pushing students to get a UT permit rather than one from their own state, instructors certifying students where neither the instructor nor student have ever even been to UT and never plan to go there are all going to start causing the lawmakers to look at the laws they passed.

You can take option one that no permit should be required and fight for that or work within the system and make sure that what you are doing isn't going to raise any red flags. If we all start walking around with a black powder navy colt pistol in our hands to point out that it is legal it may not stay legal for long. Just be careful what you wish for as you just may get it.

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That is the reason I made the two earlier sugggestions.

If utah made it so thet Utah NON-resident permits were only valid in Utah, it would prevent people from using them to circumvent their own state laws. If that were the case, then states like New Mexico and Nevada might go back to honoring Utah resident permits. After all, the real reason appears more of a revenue issue, plus their desire for their own citizens to acquire permits that meet their ownstandards. Being able to sidestep their requirements is not right. If their citizens do not like their requirements, then they should fight to get the laws changed instead of going around them.That, of course, would benefit all.This would be step one.

Step two would be to permit those Utah residents WHO WISH TO DO SO to get get a qualification card for certain weapons they carry so that when they travel to other states that require certification, they can carry their weapons with them. That would encourage the other states to go back to recognizing Utah permit holders who have certifications instead of just saying "We dont recognie ANY Utah permits. They could say instead that "We recognized Utah permits if they have a certification card for the weapon they are carrying"

Now mind you, I wish to EMPHASIZE, that having a certification card would NOT be required for Utah carry. It would simply be an option for those who want to carry in states that might otherwise not recognize Utah permit holders.

I understand the earlier response that stated that Utah does not get to decide which states will honor their permits, and Ia agree with that statement. But taking these steps would go a long way towards restoring confidence in the Utah CCW permit as well as stopping "retaliatory" rules saying that Utah permits are no longer recognized.

I alsoread another suggestion saying that Utah permits should not be issued to non-residents unless they first had a permit from their own state. That would also be OK, except that there are a lot of states that you cannot get a permit. My first suggestion would have the result that they could still come to Utah and carry, but they could not use a Utah permit to circumvent their own laws, since a non-resident permit would be valid only in Utah

To summarize, Utah resident permits would be valid in any state with reciprocity.

Utah resident permit holders would not have to be certified to carry in Utah or any other reciprocity state that does not demand it.

Non-resident permits would be valid only in Utah

Other states with more stringent traing rewuirements might be encouraged to accept Utah permits again if we could get optional weapon certification cards. That would permit them to say "Utah permits are valid in our state provided that they hold a certification card for the weapon they are carrying".

Anyhow, this was my thinking, but I wanted to calrify it, as well as explaining my rationale.


Personally, I would like to even go one step further and say that no permit whatsoever is required to carry open or concealed in Utah. However, we would still need to offer a permit AS AN OPTION with the limitations and enhancements I recommended. That would make it so that Utah residents would be able to carry out of state (You know, in tall those otherstates that scored Bradypoints).

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Rottie wrote:

redreed wrote:

/QUOTE "redreed Swilden is right about your first suggestion. As to your suggestion about qualifying with a particualr type of weapon I am opposed. I do think that shooting as part of a ccw class is prudent, however we should not be limited as to the types of guns we can carry based upon some arbitrary qualification. If I want to carry a revolver one day concealed and then a semi auto the next day it is my choice and I would carry each under very different circumstances."

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/MY REPLY You and Swilden are right Rottie, but I am not suggesting that qualification be made aREQUIREMENT for Utah, merely anOPTION to be used for those who travel yo other states with more stringent training requirements.As it stands today, some states do not honor Utah permits due to our lack of training rewuirements. If we had an optional certification card, then those same states might allow Utah CCW permits for those who have completed the optional certification for the weapon they will be carrying while in that state. That way, their legislators would be able to rest easier knowing that they have inconvenienced Utah residents just as much as they have inconvenienced their own citizens, without any corresponding benefit having been derived for the effort.

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PT111 wrote:

... where neither the instructor nor student have ever even been to UT ...

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Except that out-of-state instructors have to come to Utah to get certified to qualify as instructors for the Utah permit...

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colormered wrote:

PT111 wrote:

... where neither the instructor nor student have ever even been to UT ...

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Except that out-of-state instructors have to come to Utah to get certified to qualify as instructors for the Utah permit...

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That is good, I had read somewhere that they weren't and if I saw it on the Interent you know it has to be a fact. I have a NH permit and have never been to NH and don't have any plansto go there. I got it so that I could CC in GA since my SC one is no good in GA. Since NH raised the price from $20 to $100 I suppose I will have to get a PA one when it expires. Now I have been to PA a few times. It is the same type of deal and why NH raised their price on permits.