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Thread: Vehicle Carry

  1. #1
    bhancock
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    After reading the state statutes, it seems that vehicle includes just about every mode of transportation that has 4 wheels and also includes snowmobiles. Does anyone have any insight on this? The only exception I saw was hunting from farming equipment when properly licensed for the hunt, etc. etc. I would like to legally carry while on my ATV or electric golf cart in my rural neighborhood.

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    Regular Member Canard's Avatar
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    This statute is very vague and also includes vehicles of the 2-wheeled variety, motorized and not. It seems anything that you could drive on the highway, whether or not it is meant for the highway, qualifies.

  3. #3
    McX
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    i was kinda wondering too; if you have hard bags on your motorcycle, and you take your properly cased, for transport handgun, and put it into the hardbag on the bike, would that be a concealed violation?

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    how about a bicycle?

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    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    bhancock wrote:
    After reading the state statutes, it seems that vehicle includes just about every mode of transportation that has 4 wheels and also includes snowmobiles. Does anyone have any insight on this? The only exception I saw was hunting from farming equipment when properly licensed for the hunt, etc. etc. I would like to legally carry while on my ATV or electric golf cart in my rural neighborhood.
    I cantell youfrom first hand experience that you WILL get a $198.60 ticketfor

    23.33(3)(e) ATV-Operate w/Loaded Firearm in Vehicle

    Possibly loose your gun and ATV, if you OC on an ATV, (yes even on your own property/land) and basically any other vehicle, including a bicycle, little red wagon etc. As far as the farm equipment goes, I can only assume that you are referring to the 2005 Assembly bill609 where it says:

    In addition, the general prohibitions described above relating to transporting or shooting in or






    from a vehicle do not apply to a landowner, or a family member or employee of the landowner who is






    using a firearm, bow, or crossbow to shoot wild animals from a farm tractor or an implement of






    husbandry on the landowner’s land that is located within a DNR-designated chronic wasting disease






    eradication zone.


    Only problem is that, in 2009 the DNR changed the nomenclature dealing with CWD and there is no-longer a CWD "Eradication Zone", making this AB obsolete.

    So.... Bottom line, No it is not legal to OC on an ATV or Golf cart

    This is not advice form a Lawyer, just someone that's been there, first hand.


    Edit--

    BTW, this is the reason I joined WCI, so when these unbelievably stupid laws get changed, Through the hard work of The people that support WCI, I can take a bit of pride knowing I helped support this work!

  6. #6
    bhancock
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    I sent an email to the LaCrosse County DA today to see if he would be willing to share his legal opinion or advice. I'll post back if I get a response.

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    Regular Member CUOfficer's Avatar
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    BTW, this is the reason I joined WCI, so when these unbelievably stupid laws get changed, Through the hard work of The people that support WCI, I can take a bit of pride knowing I helped support this work!

    +1

    I would contact law enforcement before carrying on a motorcycle. On an atv I believe that unloaded and encased is proper. I think the La Crosse DA will be busy today with the Buchner embezzlement case but hopefully you'll get a response. However, they won't provide you with a "free" legal opinion in an emal.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    bhancock wrote:
    I sent an email to the LaCrosse County DA today to see if he would be willing to share his legal opinion or advice. I'll post back if I get a response.
    Well, I sent an email yesterday asking how I file an official criminal complaint against the City of Onalaska, and the Onalaska Police Chief. Haven't heard anything back yet.

  9. #9
    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    bhancock wrote:
    After reading the state statutes, it seems that vehicle includes just about every mode of transportation that has 4 wheels and also includes snowmobiles. Does anyone have any insight on this? The only exception I saw was hunting from farming equipment when properly licensed for the hunt, etc. etc. I would like to legally carry while on my ATV or electric golf cart in my rural neighborhood.
    After reading some of the other posts in this thread, I need to ask.... I assume you mean "Openly Carry"????

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Only problem is that, in 2009 the DNR changed the nomenclature dealing with CWD and there is no-longer a CWD "Eradication Zone", making this AB obsolete.

    So.... Bottom line, No it is not legal to OC on an ATV or Golf cart

    This is not advice form a Lawyer, just someone that's been there, first hand.


    Edit--

    BTW, this is the reason I joined WCI, so when these unbelievably stupid laws get changed, Through the hard work of The people that support WCI, I can take a bit of pride knowing I helped support this work!
    This is what you get when a state agency, the Department of Never Ending Regulations,that is against firearms except when usedwhile exercisinga highly regulated hunting privilege hasbeen granted to authority towrite firearm laws.

    Hunters better wake up. Doyle, through his cronies in the DNR, have stop funding new shooting ranges and improvements. Without a place for thenext generation to learn to shoot and improve their skills, there will be no next generation of hunters.

    Doyle and the wissey"environmentists" will then have achieved their dream of a silent fall: woods and other wildlife areas, paid for with firearm and ammunition excise taxes, without the sound of gunfire during hunting seasons due to a lack of hunters.


    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  11. #11
    bhancock
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    Yes, I do mean openly open carry. Another scenario is mowing the ditch alongside the county highway in front of my house on my riding lawnmower. The statutes seem to include that rider as a vehicle. Maybe on my property or maybe across the highway on the neighboring(firearm friendly) property.

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    That is your property.

    I am armed while on my tractor vehicle mowing the roadside. I am armed while doing litter pickup on the road that I live on; without signs and tipping my hat to my neighbor passers by.

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    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    bhancock wrote:
    Yes, I do mean openly open carry. Another scenario is mowing the ditch alongside the county highway in front of my house on my riding lawnmower. The statutes seem to include that rider as a vehicle. Maybe on my property or maybe across the highway on the neighboring(firearm friendly) property.
    OC on any vehicle, as described in State Statutes 941, 167, & 340 will earn you the same ticket I got, listed in my earlier post, and that includes your lawn tractor.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    I was thinking about that this afternoon while I was mowing the lawn. So, to recap, no OC while on my lawnmower on my property?

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    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    That would be correct as I understand it, per the laws in Wisconsin.

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    hunter9mm:

    I don't know when you received your citation but if it was after 2003 it's too bad you didn't fight it on the grounds of constitutionality. In 2003 as part of it's opinion on the Hamdan case the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that Artucle I section 25 was a fundamental right and that if the State prohibited one manner of carry it must provide an alternate manner. Concealed carry is an absolute prohibition and predates 167.31 by nearly a hundred years and strictly prohibits the generalpopulation from carrying a concealed weapon off their property. tThat leaves the only reasonable manner of carry on an ATV, open carry.

    Because a person cannot carry an encased firearm "out of reach" on an ATV all conditions the SSC says comprise concealed carry are met; weapon is within reach, weapon is hidden from ordinary view and the person knows the weapon is present. However, if a person carries an unconcealed firearm on an ATV in order to avoid being charged with violation of the concealed carry statute the person puts themself in jeopardy of violating the vehicle carry statute.

    The State does not provide any lawful manner of carry on ATV's, snowmobiles. motorcycles, bicycles etc. therefore one of two conditions prevail. Either 167.31 is unconstitutional or it is unlawful to transport a firearm on such a vehicle. It's unfortunate this situation has not been contested in court yet. I guess it's too easy to pay a $198.60 fine than to pay court and lawyer costs to fight the charge. That of course is what the State and the DNR are betting on.

  17. #17
    McX
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    wow, captain; if the state prohibits one form of carry, they must provide another! can you post a copy of that one. i'll carry that one in my wallet!

  18. #18
    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    Captain Nemo wrote:
    hunter9mm:

    I don't know when you received your citation but if it was after 2003 it's too bad you didn't fight it on the grounds of constitutionality. In 2003 as part of it's opinion on the Hamdan case the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that Artucle I section 25 was a fundamental right and that if the State prohibited one manner of carry it must provide an alternate manner. Concealed carry is an absolute prohibition and predates 167.31 by nearly a hundred years and strictly prohibits the generalpopulation from carrying a concealed weapon off their property. tThat leaves the only reasonable manner of carry on an ATV, open carry.

    Because a person cannot carry an encased firearm "out of reach" on an ATV all conditions the SSC says comprise concealed carry are met; weapon is within reach, weapon is hidden from ordinary view and the person knows the weapon is present. However, if a person carries an unconcealed firearm on an ATV in order to avoid being charged with violation of the concealed carry statute the person puts themself in jeopardy of violating the vehicle carry statute.

    The State does not provide any lawful manner of carry on ATV's, snowmobiles. motorcycles, bicycles etc. therefore one of two conditions prevail. Either 167.31 is unconstitutional or it is unlawful to transport a firearm on such a vehicle. It's unfortunate this situation has not been contested in court yet. I guess it's too easy to pay a $198.60 fine than to pay court and lawyer costs to fight the charge. That of course is what the State and the DNR are betting on.
    Nemo, Loaded open carry on or in a motor vehicle has not been legal in Wisconsin, wherever you are, (unless you are a LEO or the others classified in that portion of the law)at least not during my adult years of my lifetime of 50 plus years.There is no Special condition or provision for mere mortals in this condition. As you stated, the current laws basically say "You can't legallytransport on these types of vehicles, period" and I must agree with you on that point. I wish I'd been more knowledgeable about the OC movement back then and had the $$ it would have taken to fight the unconstitutionality of the laws, but I couldn't afford to go that far. I'm not sure where you got the notion that I didn't get a lawyer and fight the charge tho? at this point, I'm just trying to share my first hand knowledge to the OP of this thread, where he asked...

    If there's a law that allows this, I've never seen it and neither has my lawyer....
    I would like to legally carry while on my ATV or electric golf cart in my rural neighborhood.

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    hunter9mm:

    I said nothing about transport of a loaded weapon. I wasn't being critical of you per-say on fighting the charge I was just trying to imply it seemed like an opportunity lost and of course your experience is importance to the effort.

    Statute 23.33(3)(e)

    Rules of Operation

    23.33(3) No person may operate an all-terrain vehicle:

    (e) With any firearm in his or her possesion unless it is encased in a carrying case, or any bow unless it is unstrung or enclosed in a carrying case.

    23.33(3)(e) is a restriction on the operation of an ATV. It implies that transport of a firearm on an ATV is lawful if the firearm is encased. That adds another element of confusion to the situation because as I illustratedin my scenario. statutes 941.23 and 167.31 definitely come in conflict with each other if you transport a firearm on a vehicle that doesn't allow the firearm to be carried "out of reach". That is why 167.31 has to go. One statute says you can others imply you can't.

    Nothing in my post was directed specifically at you. It only expessed a consternation.





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    Mcx:

    This is what I was referring to in Hamdan. There are others on thid forum that are more familiar with the case than I.

    ¶71. In circumstances where the State's interest in restricting the right to
    keep and bear arms is minimal and the private interest in exercising the right
    is substantial, an individual needs a way to exercise the right without
    violating the law. We hold, in these circumstances, that regulations limiting a
    constitutional right to keep and bear arms must leave some realistic alternative
    means to exercise the right.

  21. #21
    Regular Member hunter9mm's Avatar
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    Captain Nemo wrote:
    hunter9mm:

    I said nothing about transport of a loaded weapon. I wasn't being critical of you per-say on fighting the charge I was just trying to imply it seemed like an opportunity lost and of course your experience is importance to the effort.

    Statute 23.33(3)(e)

    Rules of Operation

    23.33(3) No person may operate an all-terrain vehicle:

    (e) With any firearm in his or her possesion unless it is encased in a carrying case, or any bow unless it is unstrung or enclosed in a carrying case.

    23.33(3)(e) is a restriction on the operation of an ATV. It implies that transport of a firearm on an ATV is lawful if the firearm is encased. That adds another element of confusion to the situation because as I illustratedin my scenario. statutes 941.23 and 167.31 definitely come in conflict with each other if you transport a firearm on a vehicle that doesn't allow the firearm to be carried "out of reach". That is why 167.31 has to go. One statute says you can others imply you can't.

    Nothing in my post was directed specifically at you. It only expessed a consternation.



    Nemo Sorry if my reply came across that way, but I did not feel you were being critical of me directly. It is a shame I didn't ave the resources to take this further within the legal system, but there's a whole other part of the story I left out or my original post would be 2 pages long. Some day, when we meet at a WCI function, ask me about it and I'll give you all the details.These defunct laws in Wisconsin will amaze anyone!!!

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