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Thread: Epic Failure

  1. #1
    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    Went to Win-Co tonight with my daughter to grab a few things for dinner tonight.

    This old boy comes up and asks me if that is a firearm. I tell him that it is, and smile. Then he asks me, "Whyare you carrying it like that?"

    Well, I guess wasn't in to much of a mood tonight, so my response was, "Why should I hide it? Washington is an open carry state."

    His reply was to inform me that it was illegal, that I was brandishing, and it was intimidating, therefore it was against the law.

    I of course told him that as long as it was holstered it wasn't brandishing, andapologized ifhe felt intimidated.

    It appeared to me that he wasn't going to hear a word I had to say and as he walked away, he told me that he had already called the cops.
    (Who of course never showed up.)

    So I finished my shopping, andheaded for home, all pissed off, for not having my wits about me for not being prepared to verbally tie this asshat into a knot.

    Iguess you can't win em all.




  2. #2
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    You know, I would bet that the term "Pistol Whip" was created with the start of an asshat ******* off someone with a gun who didnt want to file paperwork for shooting them. Course I guess a pistol whipping whould have made you brandish and he definitly would have been intimidated.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Like you said the guy seemed like no matter what you said he wasn't going to listen. Maybe he will be bothered enough to look up the law again.

    You were right he was wrong.

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am glad you were open carrying and handled yourself well.

    I don't apologize for how people "feel" though, it isn't our fault they have hoplophobia.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
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    Sparky508 wrote:
    Iguess you can't win em all.
    I would say you did win. You kept your cool, you educated him as to the facts, and the confrontation ended. There is not really a better outcome as he obviously was ignorant and had no intention of recognizing that fact. The only thing that could have gone better was if you had been able to give him a flyer, but my guess is he wouldn't have taken it anyway.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    I have to say one of the things that really threw me, was when he used the verbiage,

    "brandishing", and "cause for alarm"

    I kept thinking, during and after the fact, that this freakin knob had eitherread enough to be misinformed or thathe was a localLE transplant or something?

    Really weirded me out as I haven't had a negative experience where I didn't come out on top, or at least seemed to get the point out.

    99% of the time its been,"You can do that?" or the rare manager type, just kind of checking me out real sheepishly. Always ended up being a positive thing in the end, mostly conversational, never confrontational.

    I guess I'm just crying, cause I lost my 1st ******* match to some ass clown.

    He done went hurt my sensitive little feeling.......

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Things like that tend to bug me for quite a while too. Try to let it go. Hopefully, he did call the cops, but sounds like he didn't. Wuss.
    Correction.

    Hopefully he DID call the cops and they asked the right questions that led them to respond that he was legally carrying and there was no need to dispatch anyone.

  8. #8
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I am glad you were open carrying and handled yourself well.

    I don't apologize for how people "feel" though, it isn't our fault they have hoplophobia.
    From: Wikipedia ...

    Hoplophobia from the Greek hoplon, or weapon, is defined as the "fear of firearms"[1][/suP][2][/suP][3][/suP] and as the "fear of armed citizens".[4][/suP]

    Firearms instructor and writer Colonel Jeff Cooper claimed to have coined the word in 1962[5][/suP] to describe a "mental disturbance characterized by irrational aversion to weapons".[6][/suP] Although not a mental health professional, Cooper employed the term as an alternative to slang terms, stating: "We read of 'gun grabbers' and 'anti-gun nuts' but these slang terms do not (explain this behavior)." Cooper attributed this behavior to an irrational fear of firearms and other forms of weaponry. He stated that "the most common manifestation of hoplophobia is the idea that instruments possess a will of their own, apart from that of their user."[7][/suP] Writing in an opinion piece, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review columnist Dimitri Vassilaros asserted that the term was intended by Cooper as tongue-in-cheek.[8][/suP]

    The meaning and usage ascribed by Cooper falls outside of the medical definitions of true specific phobias. For example, specific phobias require that the person be aware and acknowledge that their fear is irrational, and usually causes some kind of functional impairment.[citation needed][/suP] True medical phobias of firearms and other weapons can exist, but are unusual.[9][/suP]

    The term hoplophobe has been used to encourage constituent letter writing and to raise funds by at least one gun rights advocacy group. They have employed the term hoplophobe to characterize their opponents as outrageous fear-mongerers, and as being irrationally fearful.[10][/suP]



  9. #9
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    Sparky508 wrote:
    Went to Win-Co tonight with my daughter to grab a few things for dinner tonight.

    This old boy comes up and asks me if that is a firearm. I tell him that it is, and smile. Then he asks me, "Whyare you carrying it like that?"

    Well, I guess wasn't in to much of a mood tonight, so my response was, "Why should I hide it? Washington is an open carry state."

    His reply was to inform me that it was illegal, that I was brandishing, and it was intimidating, therefore it was against the law.

    I of course told him that as long as it was holstered it wasn't brandishing, andapologized ifhe felt intimidated.

    It appeared to me that he wasn't going to hear a word I had to say and as he walked away, he told me that he had already called the cops.
    (Who of course never showed up.)

    So I finished my shopping, andheaded for home, all pissed off, for not having my wits about me for not being prepared to verbally tie this asshat into a knot.

    Iguess you can't win em all.


    Win-Co sucks anyway

  10. #10
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Is that the one by the federal way aquatics center? And you probably met a member of the Brady Complainer's.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    If they ask you to leave must you???

  12. #12
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    yes
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The OP never stated specifically it was a Win-co employee that called the Police or approached him.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    It was the Win-Co in Graham, and the approaching individual was a customer.

    And yes, while Win-Co does suck, with their long lines and their questionable customer base :shock:

    they are cheap, and other than this one time, I have never had a problemopenly carrying in their store.


    Have actually had a couple of very nice encounters while doing so.




  15. #15
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Only employees can tell you to leave, if you dont, you can be criminal trespass. Gotta get yourself some OCDO flyers to hand out when someone approaches you. The general public is just that, the general public, some of which can be generally annoying.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  16. #16
    Regular Member Window_Seat's Avatar
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    RCW 9.41.270: Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
    Again, here we have an unclear & ambiguous section regarding the carrying of firearms.

    No, I'm not a lawyer, no now that I've gotten that out of the way...

    The "OR(s)" I specify should have been an "AND", because now a prosecutor can use it to say "He warranted alarm" simply by virtue of the fact that you or I carried in a belt holster inside of Cabela's without even touching it or coming into eye contact with anyone.

    Any person who in their right or "not so right" mind can call the cops and say "He is scaring the sheep with his gun", and that would be enough to make a prosecutor very happy about his occupation, and effectively destroy your life beyond recognition, no? A person could say "He might not have intimidated me, but he "CERTAINLY WARRANTED ALARM" for sure.

    What needs to be done in the next session is that the "OR(s)" need to be replaced with "and", & the "EITHER" needs a strike-through so as to stop the abuse by those who are simply anti, and enjoy lying to the Police & Prosecutors.

    Erik.

  17. #17
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Window_Seat wrote:
    RCW 9.41.270: Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
    Again, here we have an unclear & ambiguous section regarding the carrying of firearms.

    No, I'm not a lawyer, no now that I've gotten that out of the way...

    The "OR(s)" I specify should have been an "AND", because now a prosecutor can use it to say "He warranted alarm" simply by virtue of the fact that you or I carried in a belt holster inside of Cabela's without even touching it or coming into eye contact with anyone.

    Any person who in their right or "not so right" mind can call the cops and say "He is scaring the sheep with his gun", and that would be enough to make a prosecutor very happy about his occupation, and effectively destroy your life beyond recognition, no? A person could say "He might not have intimidated me, but he "CERTAINLY WARRANTED ALARM" for sure.

    What needs to be done in the next session is that the "OR(s)" need to be replaced with "and", & the "EITHER" needs a strike-through so as to stop the abuse by those who are simply anti, and enjoy lying to the Police & Prosecutors.

    Erik.
    I'll sign the petition



    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  18. #18
    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    AMZBRADY "I'll sign the petition"

    +1



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    Sounds like you got through this one pretty good. I would probably studder through these kind of encounters. I know that people mean well but if they don't know the law then why do they approach people acting like they do? But I think you handled it brilliantly and could have been nasty with this individual if you wanted. It seems like they didn't even know what brandishing means. What a shame people are so weak minded. Cheers

  20. #20
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    If it was the Winco in Marysville you probably wouldn't have understood what he was saying unless you are fluent in Spanish.


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Que?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Sparky508 wrote:
    His reply was to inform me that it was illegal, that I was brandishing, and it was intimidating, therefore it was against the law.
    I love it when that sort of thing happens.

    "Well, sir, if you're coming over here and griping about it to my face, then it's obviously not intimidating!"

    --


  23. #23
    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    "Well, sir, if you're coming over here and griping about it to my face, then it's obviously not intimidating!"

    This face to face griping by the sheeple is so common. Additionally it's beyond stupid and shows the utter lack of investigation of the subject matter. And yet, being ignorant and stupid, these people still feel qualified to tell others how to behave.

    An alternate comment in response to the "brandishing" claim would be, "Sir, someday you will learn that words have meanings."

    MD



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