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Thread: Beginner's pistol/ Gun liscence

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    I am thinking about getting a pistol but just turned 18. I was wondering what sort of pistol would be good to get for a beginner preferably cheap and also where in Battle Creek to go for a gun training class to carry a concealed weapon. I know you don't have to have a licence to own a gun but I would still like the class.

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    lawhejr wrote:
    I am thinking about getting a pistol but just turned 18. I was wondering what sort of pistol would be good to get for a beginner preferably cheap and also where in Battle Creek to go for a gun training class to carry a concealed weapon. I know you don't have to have a licence to own a gun but I would still like the class.
    Talk to Joel or Jared Fulton at the Southside Sporstmans Club in Battle Creek. Here is the website: http://www.southsidesportsmanclub.com/

    They do all sorts of firearm classes as well as the CPL class. There is also a gun shop there and they can help you find something in your price range. If you tell us how much you want to spend on a "cheap" pistol we can give you some ideas.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    Unfortunately I don't really know what "cheap" would be since I only just started looking at guns seriously. Probably no more than $200 but I have no idea...

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I would love to recommend a great all-around beginner's pistol to you, but unfortunately there is no such thing. Every person will have a different level of comfort with each individual gun. The best way to go about finding a first pistol is to handle as many as you can. Find one that feels comfortable in your hand.

    As for caliber, 9mm is always a great choice. It's cheap, doesn't have a ton of recoil like larger calibers, but powerful enough to use as a self defense caliber (and many do!)

    You won't be able to apply for a CPL until you turn 21, but you MAY be able to take the course. I'm not sure. I would suggest, however, a beginner's pistol course instead. That will teach you basic firearm safety and operations.

    Lastly, if you don't know already, you can't buy a pistol from a dealer until you're 21. It has to be a private sale at your age.

    I hope this information helps!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    lawhejr wrote:
    Unfortunately I don't really know what "cheap" would be since I only just started looking at guns seriously.* Probably no more than $200 but I have no idea...
    You won't find much at that price. I'd recommend saving a a few hundred more, if your finances allow. You can find some great pistols for $400-$500.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    lawhejr wrote:
    I am thinking about getting a pistol but just turned 18.* I was wondering what sort of pistol would be good to get for a beginner preferably cheap and also where in Battle Creek to go for a gun training class to carry a concealed weapon.* I know you don't have to have a licence to own a gun but I would still like the class.
    Well since your just 18 and you can not get a CPL until 21, I wouldn't worry about a concealed weapon or CPL class. CPL class certificates are only good for so long. It is still a good idea to get training but most of the CPL type classes are kind of worthless in that regard.

    Also, you must note that a FFL, like a gunstore, can not sell you a pistol unless you are 21 which means you will have to purchase a pistol from a private sale. Go over to MiGunowners.org and check their classified section.

    Best thing to do is try out as many handguns as you can. I am 90% sure you can't rent a handgun from an FFL when under 21 but maybe someone else can confirm. You might have to beg someone that has a handgun you like to take you along with them when they go to the range.

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    I would agree that 9mm is a GREAT choice for a first pistol. I bought a Taurus PT111 Millenium for my wife and she loves it. I actually conceal carry it. You can get them from $250-$350 depending. Take a look at the firearm for sale forum here.

    My first pistol was a Glock 19 which is a compact Glock model in 9mm.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    CPL class certificates are only good for so long.
    The certificates do not have an expiration date, and Michigan law doesn't require that certificate to be earned in any specific timeframe. I do highly recommend taking some sort of refresher course every so often, but it's not legally mandated.

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    Ok I did not know you had to be 21 to purchase or to get the permit. This helps quite a bit thank you.

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    craigm wrote:
    The certificates do not have an expiration date, and Michigan law doesn't require that certificate to be earned in any specific timeframe.* I do highly recommend taking some sort of refresher course every so often, but it's not legally mandated.
    Sorry, you are right. I was thinking it was 6 months but that is only for renewals and not a new CPL app (3 hours of review /1 hour range time within 6 months).

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    craigm wrote:
    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    CPL class certificates are only good for so long.
    The certificates do not have an expiration date, and Michigan law doesn't require that certificate to be earned in any specific timeframe. I do highly recommend taking some sort of refresher course every so often, but it's not legally mandated.
    Yep + 1

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    .22s make great first pistols. All the skills you need to learn in regards to safe gun handling and shooting can be learned with a .22. You can pick up a used Taurus .22 revolver for a couple hundred bucks and shoot the snot out of it for super cheap. Not to mention that Taurus will still honor the warranty on any gun you buy used while most other gun makers only honor the warranty for the original owner.

    .22sare cheap to buy, cheap to feed, reliable, fun, and a great training firearm...I recommend them highly.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    lawhejr wrote:
    Ok I did not know you had to be 21 to purchase or to get the permit.* This helps quite a bit thank you.


    You can get a permit to purchase a handgun at 18, not 21. You cannot however use that purchase permit to purchase from a firearms dealer, only a private seller. Hopefully that helps some?
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    .22s are loads of fun, and cheap to operate.

    9mm is absolutely the smallest defensive round, but if youre thinking ahead, you might know that someone being shot at will usually try to hide behind something, at which point a 9 wont do a whole lot for you.

    As far as a cheap gun goes, you could get a hi point, but other than getting teased relentlessly, you get what you pay for.

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    If you find a pistol you want though, you can always have someone who's 21 or older buy it and then transfer it to you.

    NEVER suggest this!!!
    That is an intentional straw purchase which is illegal.



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    WARCHILD wrote:
    If you find a pistol you want though, you can always have someone who's 21 or older buy it and then transfer it to you.

    NEVER suggest this!!!
    That is an intentional straw purchase which is illegal.

    It's not illegal as long as he buys it and then registers it. Once it is registered he can sell it to anyone he wants, with a PP permit.

    A straw purchase happens when someone buys a gun for someone else who cannot own a firearm. This action happens to conceal the identity of the true buyer. That is what is illegal.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    the idea of straw purchase always causes a ruckus....


    IF!! you find a gun at a dealer you want to own,,, CONVINCE a friend to buy one, to see IF they like it...
    in a few days ,,,when they decide they dont really like the gun,,, then you OFFER to buy it from them!!!

    if it is done this way,, it is not a straw purchase!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    see what i mean about a ruckus!!!
    the straw happens when you are not allowed to make that purchase,,
    not when you are not allowed to own the gun!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Agree.... my only point is this type of activity should NEVER be discussed on an open forum. Given the state of the legal system in this country; I would not want to be a test case on any type of straw purchase. Especially since I will be judged by some one else on the definition of a straw purchase.

    This info should always be done via PM and keep it off the forum.

    JMO

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    .22s are loads of fun, and cheap to operate.

    9mm is absolutely the smallest defensive round, but if youre thinking ahead, you might know that someone being shot at will usually try to hide behind something, at which point a 9 wont do a whole lot for you.

    As far as a cheap gun goes, you could get a hi point, but other than getting teased relentlessly, you get what you pay for.
    Nonsense. Cite?

    ETA: http://www.google.com/search?q=9mm+v...ient=firefox-a

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    .22s are loads of fun, and cheap to operate.

    9mm is absolutely the smallest defensive round, but if youre thinking ahead, you might know that someone being shot at will usually try to hide behind something, at which point a 9 wont do a whole lot for you.

    As far as a cheap gun goes, you could get a hi point, but other than getting teased relentlessly, you get what you pay for.
    Stainless1911... I have much respect for you so please do not misunderstand the following that isn't directed at you personally...

    Everyone be warned... the following is a pet peeve of mine...

    I know many gun pundits say that 9mm is the smallest defensive caliber that should be considered... but those pundits leave out one essential consideration... recoil control.

    There are folks who could rapid fire (and I say rapid fire because that criteria is necessary when considering how the average person would use the gun in defense of themselves) a very large caliber and stay on target. And there are folks who can't stay on target with anything larger than a .22. And folks everywhere in between.

    It is the "stay on target" part that is important because bullets from follow up shots that miss due to inability to control recoil (keep gun on target) don't do anything no matter how big that bullet is.

    The best choice a person can make for the most effective self defense caliber is the largest caliber they can shoot the best and stay on target rapid fire.... regardless of how big, or small, that caliber is because...

    Only hits make holes. Misses just make noise.

    This website is a good source of information.... even if it's emphasis is more to CC than OC. But then a CC gun works for OC with a simple change of holsters so....

    http://www.spw-duf.info/handgun.html

    Please note that caliber choice is #5 in importance. And please surf around that site for a great deal of good info... and no, it isn't my site either.

    However, it is my opinion based upon years of working with and watching folks on the range that many people carry a caliber for defense that is too big for their ability to control the recoil.

    Ok... Monday morning still working on my cuppa coffee rant over and done.


    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    +1 Steve
    The short answer I use, "Whatever caliber you can control to stop the threat".

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Bikenut wrote:
    The best choice a person can make for the most effective self defense caliber is the largest caliber they can shoot the best and stay on target rapid fire.... regardless of how big, or small, that caliber is because...
    There is iron in Bikenut's words. 9 hits with a .22 are better than 7 misses with a .45.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    I completely understand where youre coming from here. My opinions come from some things that I have read,some things I have done, and some people I have talked to.

    I wish I could get the same recoil out of the .40 as a 9 certainly. Ive read many of the same things you have in this caliber war. If 9mm was sufficient, then why make a +p round for it? Im sure there is one for the 40 and 45, somewhere. One of the strongest arguments I have for the 40 and above, is based on what Ive heard from LEO and military who have carried the 9, and were, to say the least, scared of it. Too many first hand accounts of people saying the round was inadequate. Against bare skin, sure, I wouldnt want one flying at me. But against barriers, it doesnt really have the mass. Hollowpoints are going to make things worse. The other reason I have this position is through some of the meager informal testing I have done. After shooting the .40 through a few things, I will likely be moving to a .45 or 10mm, provided that I can still control the recoil. For me, the .40Xd is approaching my limit. Ill probably go with a steel frame to help compensate for the recoil. I fired at a car door with the .40 a couple times at about 6 feet, and one of the rounds stopped in the door after hitting the re enforcement panel, making a nice dent, but that was all. the other round went through, and stopped in a piece of wood I had set up for a backstop. It went in an inch or so, you could see it. Ill show you the holes if I bring the Festiva to a meet. Still have the round. I fired it into a 4x4 laying on a piece of plywood on the floor in front of me. It went all the way through the 4x4 making a nice dent in the ply. I popped the round out of the 4x4 with a screwdriver. Still have it. I shot one through the windsheild, inside out, and into a tree that was about15 feet in front of, and to the right of the car. Made a sweet hole, bit only went into the tree an inch or so. It went through the bark, and was pretty much done at that point. Ive still got that one too. and finally, I popped one through a milk jug full of water, and recovered the roind from the wooden backstop. It went an inch and a quarter into the wood, and opened up beautifully. Its my favorite.

    After personally witnessing these "tests" I wouldnt feel entirely comfortable carrying a 9mm. JMO

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    Nines and forty-fives have been dropping, both two-legged and four-legged, critters for a hundred years.

    Please read this thread from GT:

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1165386

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