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Thread: Chicago needs "tougher gun control laws"

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2...e.suntimes.com

    Police Supt. Weis: National Guard isn't solution to city's gun violence

    State Reps. Fritchey and Ford want National Guard's help fighting crime

    April 25, 2010

    BY KIM JANSSEN AND FRANCINE KNOWLES Staff Reporters

    Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis today spoke out against a request for the Illinois National Guard to be to deployed on Chicago’s streets to help tackle gun violence.

    Stopping just short of outright rejecting the request from state lawmakers Rep. John Fritchey and Rep. LaShawn Ford, Weis said “I don't think the National Guard is the solution.”

    At a press conference earlier Sunday, Fritchey and Ford had called on Gov. Quinn and Mayor Daley to deploy troops. The action, in coordination with Weis, should be taken as soon as possible to help get guns and criminals off the street, they said.

    The two Chicago Democrats noted National Guard members are now working side-by-side with U.S. troops to fight wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, while another deadly war is taking place in Chicago neighborhoods.

    “Is calling for National Guard deployment a drastic action? Of course it is,” said Fritchey. “Is it warranted under these circumstances? Without question. If we can bring (the National Guard) in to help fill sandbags for flooding... to deal with tornado debris, we can bring them in to save lives.”

    So far this year, 113 people have been killed across Chicago — precisely the same number as the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan combined during the same time period, the legislators noted.

    "U.S. troops have been winning the hearts and minds (of people) in Iraq," Ford said. “They’ve stabilized those communities. They made those communities much better. Now those communities are safe. That’s what we want right here in Illinois, for the National Guard to come in and stabilize these communities.”

    Fritchey and Ford noted the National Guard has been deployed in other states to prevent violence related to specific events and protests, but added that they were unaware of guardsmen and women being deployed to assist with general urban unrest.

    They stressed a call for National Guard help here should not be equated with marshal law.

    “We’re not talking about rolling tanks down the street,” Fritchey said. “We’re not talking about armed presence on every corner. We’re talking about individuals, men and woman that have been specifically trained to assist law enforcement and, assist with civil unrest. This is what the National Guard in part is trained to do.”

    But Weis cautioned against “comparing apples and oranges.”

    Referring to the Kent State shootings in 1970, when National Guardsmen fatally shot four student protesters at a campus demonstration, Weis said that “when you mix military functions with law enforcement functions, there is sometimes a disconnect.”

    Noting that the military does not operate under the same constitutional constraints as the police, he questioned how Chicago residents would react to soldiers raiding homes without warrants, and said that in his 25 years of law enforcement experience, he had never seen an example of military personnel working under local civilian command.

    “The National Guard is very useful if we had a big earthquake or huge flood or a catastrophe like that, where we simply had to control folks,” he said, “But the problems we’re facing are illegal weapons, narcotics and gangs. And while I will always look out for as much help as we can, I don't think the National Guard is the solution.”

    The lawmakers could better help by passing tougher gun control laws, he said, also calling on communities affected by violence to “break the code of silence” against identifying criminals.

    Quinn spokesman Bob Reed declined comment.

    Fritchey and Ford noted that 80 percent of city homicide victims are black. Ford represents constituents in the West side communities of Austin, Lawndale and West Garfield, that have been hard hit by homicides and other crime. Fritchey represents constituents in the lower-crime North side communities of Bucktown, DePaul, Lincoln Park, Roscoe Village and Ravenswood.

    The legislators said while they believe more should be done to deal with the violence, their views shouldn’t be seen as criticism of local law enforcement, whose resources are stretched thin.

    They added Weis recently pointed out most violent crime in Chicago happens on just 9 percent of the city's blocks. To target these “hot spots,” Weis has said he was seeking 100 officers to volunteer for a summer-long “strategic response team.”

    Deploying the Guard is a better option, Fritchey and Ford contend.

    While Weis came out against the suggestion Sunday, he did add that he had yet to discuss it with the mayor and that is something he was willing to “explore.”

    “I’d have to see what the mayor’s position on this is,” he said. “If he’s open to it, you know, of course, I’d be open to it. I have certain concerns, based on my time in law enforcement and the United States military.”




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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Good God! They have got to be joking!

    Comparing NG response to assist in natural disaster relief is not anywhere nearparity withdeploying US Military in a Military capacity (which is against the law, btw)!

    The NG serves in two capacities ... in their state, they are a state relief agency with the use of US Government resources (trucks, helios, medical, shelter, food supplies) or they are US Military forces during times of marshal law in which they are a security force, not a law enforcement force. They have no powers of arrest, only of detainment. It is then up to local law enforcement to investigate and arrest.


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    Thats not entirely true. The posse comitatus acts prohibit federal or federalized troops from acting as law enforcement. The national guard can be called to state active duty under Title 32 orders and empowered by the governor to serve as he sees fit.

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    Hey, I've got a novel idea. Why not get rid of the stupid handgun ban and let the citizens of Chicago defend themselves against the criminal activities. It works in other parts of the country.

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    Regular Member One_Shot's Avatar
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    Elected liberals at their best! Just allow all citizens to carry weapons and crime will take a nose dive. It will also boost the economy; new hires at the funeral home, cemetery, and all the related business's that will be burying the scumbags criminals.

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    One_Shot wrote:
    Elected liberals at their best!* Just allow all citizens to carry weapons and crime will take a nose dive.* It will also boost the economy; new hires at the funeral home, cemetery, and all the related business's that will be burying the scumbags criminals.
    You don't want them getting any richer... the government in Chicago and Illinois doesn't have a monopoly on corruption.

    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-cemetery.html

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    Regular Member KansasKraut's Avatar
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    But, but, but... How is there so much gun violence? Guns are ILLEGAL in Chicago!

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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
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    Yup. Make CRIME illegal. That'll do it.

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    CraigC178 wrote:
    Thats not entirely true. The posse comitatus acts prohibit federal or federalized troops from acting as law enforcement. The national guard can be called to state active duty under Title 32 orders and empowered by the governor to serve as he sees fit.
    Posse Comitatus was nullified by the Defense Authorization Act of 2007. Such restrictions no longer apply.

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    useful_idiot wrote:
    CraigC178 wrote:
    Thats not entirely true. The posse comitatus acts prohibit federal or federalized troops from acting as law enforcement. The national guard can be called to state active duty under Title 32 orders and empowered by the governor to serve as he sees fit.
    Posse Comitatus was nullified by the Defense Authorization Act of 2007. Such restrictions no longer apply.
    Can you support that statement? Is it fact or legal opinion?

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    I'll tell you exactly what Chicago needs... they need a law which requires every person between the age of 18 and 45 to take at least one pistol class... (paid for by the State of course) and then make an ordinance that says everyone should have at least one gun in the house, and have an optimal one gun per person in the house. I imagine that once the general public is well armed and knows how to use those arms, that criminals won't be so brazen. I seem to remember criminals claiming that they are not afraid of police, but they are afraid of armed civilians.

    Now before you people try and claim that I'm not for Liberty by advocating that the government require people to own guns... the Constitution SAYS the government is to regulate the Militia... which in 1791 legal terms means to keep us well trained. You see, I'm not an anarchist... I'm a Constitutionalist... I support the ideals of the Framers as enumerated in the Constitution and supporting documents by the Framers.
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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    .

    They stressed a call for National Guard help here should not be equated with marshal law.

    “But the problems we’re facing are illegal weapons, narcotics and gangs. And while I will always look out for as much help as we can, I don't think the National Guard is the solution.”

    The lawmakers could better help by passing tougher gun control laws,

    So just what is this "marshal law" they are talking about, laws passed and enforced by a "marshal"? Oh wait, the author might have meant "martial" law, and the geniuses paid to be editors never caught on, I guess. Perhaps they really favor "constitooshunal' law anyway.

    Further on, we're told by another genius that the real problem is "illegal weapons", the solution for which is "tougher gun control laws", presumably laws that make the already illegal weapons into "super-dooper illegal weapons", the easier to get them off the street.

    Liberallogic gives me a headache, so I'm going to quit now and take a Motrin.

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Further on, we're told by another genius that the real problem is "illegal weapons", the solution for which is "tougher gun control laws", presumably laws that make the already illegal weapons into "super-dooper illegal weapons", the easier to get them off the street.
    That's "double-secret" illegal.

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    buster81 wrote:
    .

    They stressed a call for National Guard help here should not be equated with marshal law.

    “But the problems we’re facing are illegal weapons, narcotics and gangs. And while I will always look out for as much help as we can, I don't think the National Guard is the solution.”

    The lawmakers could better help by passing tougher gun control laws,

    So just what is this "marshal law" they are talking about, laws passed and enforced by a "marshal"? Oh wait, the author might have meant "martial" law, and the geniuses paid to be editors never caught on, I guess. Perhaps they really favor "constitooshunal' law anyway.

    Further on, we're told by another genius that the real problem is "illegal weapons", the solution for which is "tougher gun control laws", presumably laws that make the already illegal weapons into "super-dooper illegal weapons", the easier to get them off the street.

    Liberallogic gives me a headache, so I'm going to quit now and take a Motrin.
    I don't believe in illegal weapons... we need to quash that terminology and that idea... no, the real problem is criminal behavior and lax laws on criminals and harsh laws against law abiding citizens... its ass backwards in Illinois.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    The REAL problems in Chicago:

    1. A criminal government at EVERY level, from the mayor's office on down.
    2. A criminal police department.
    3. A broadly racist, stupid and criminal citizenry which unfailingly votes for criminal politicians so long as they seem likely to harm people in the racial, ethnic or religious groups which they hate.

    There ISN'T any solution to Chicago's self-inflicted problems which doesn't involve plutonium or pyroclastic flows.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Screw tougher gun control. This is what Chicago needs:

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Makes me sick they would even think about it. Such a big big can of worms.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I usually get really mad at people who are always writing "if some line is crossed we oughta fight back with force" It's outrageous. We have the best country on earth and we are really far from that.

    That being said, I'm not sure how I'd feel about this. Don't The Oath keeper's specifically say they would fight against such a use of military power?

    Assisting in natural disasters is a beautiful thing.

    Running military operations against U.S. citizens?

    May be the first time I've heard something that warrants the "cross the line" statement.

    It is abhorrent. I know that there likely isn't a police force out there that can refuse the IL gov't, but I urge all IL Sheriffs to release statements saying they will arrest any military in his/her county if they run any operations, attempt to coerce a citizen in any way (including by military acting as 'law enforcement'), and will arrest any military person who attempts to intimidate a citizen while armed with brandishing.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Besides, if they use the National Guard for something like this, doesn't that kind of put the lie to the reason for not deploying them on the Mexico boarder. Seems to me I remember hearing somewherethat NG aren't boarder guards.

    I also remember pulling guard duty and having to stand in the cold pouring rain and recite the rules for the duty post.


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