Wrong to allow guns in our parks

jbone · Apr 25, 2010

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This opinion in the herald is hilarious and disturbing at the same time.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100426/OPINION02/704269985/-1/OPINION#Wrong.to.allow.guns.in.our.parks

Sounds like thetypical anti stance used to feed on the non-educated in the issue of firearms, rights and law.

Of course she starts with the predictable “Wild West” hysteria then moves to the “gun fanatics can now legally take their loaded guns to the parks” here we have again another anti that didn’t do their homework before opening the yap! by researching it was already legal in county parks. She says “There are many responsible gun owners who wouldn’t dream of doing that" of course she conveniently left out there are many responsiblegun owner whoalready do that, and no wild ducks or kids have been shot.

The disturbing part,“Weren’t the parks created for the enjoyment of all” aren’t responsible gun owners part of the all? I wonder what other groups or class of citizens she feels shouldn’t part of her “enjoyment of all”?

I also wonder if she knows it's legal in Edmonds City Parks?

jbone · Apr 26, 2010

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I forgot to mention I also sent in an opinion yesterday, I wonder if this will be published?

In reference to article “County drops ban on guns in parks” published Thursday, April 22, 2010. What we have here is a reckless explanation in stereotypical fashion "County Council sees serious problems with allowing unrestricted possession of firearms in county parks, a place where children should be able to play and families gather without feeling threatened".

Carrying a firearm in parks is about protecting self and family while equally enjoying county parks. Those who arm are afforded the same liberties as those who choose not to, it’s about choice. The convenient labeling of threat is designed to increase control of liberties. Have members of the council abandoned the Washington State Constitution, waging war on our DECLARATION OF RIGHTS?, eager to nullify the excepted belief of GOD given rights, and the choice people have in exercising or not? Is the council stereotyping and is stereotyping not a form of discrimination? It would appear the council sees all who carry firearms a threat, whether a stock broker, burger flipper, drug pusher, member of the armed forces, taxi driver, molester, aerospace professional, fortunate or less fortunate, or even a fellow councilmember! We are all lumped (stereotyped) into one category, threat; an irresponsible person, a killer, one who would surly pack an AK-47 to a picnic and harm other park goers. Their perception being unmistakable, law abiding armed citizens are a threat and do not deserve the right of self defense.

Watch out Snohomish County, the entire State Of Washington for that matter as anti freedom supporters continue herding masses into believing our constitution does not “defines the rights of the people”, or that the preamble doesn’t really suggest “We, the people of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this constitution”, or that Article 1 Section 24 of our constitution “The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired’ was a error in transcription, early form of typo and therefore should be eradicated.

Was the passage of Ordinance No. 10-016 amending SCC 22.16.090, and adding 22.16.095 a true victory for gun rights in Snohomish County? No! Legal gun owners already had the right of possession under state law to carry in county parks. The councilmen had a change of heart? I think not, “County drops ban on guns in parks" was a calculated concession. They couldn’t possibly with any credibility take a motion to the legislature when they were deliberately disregarding state statutes (9.41.290, 9.41.300), and the rights of citizens under the constitution. The victory awaits us in Olympia, when the council’s attempt of gaining powers over firearm possession fails. Lastly, thank you Councilmen Koster for honoring and believing in our God-given inalienable rights and the liberties of an individual.

Edit forSize.

1245A Defender · Apr 26, 2010

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your letter is much better than her letter,,, you win!!
not just because you write a better letter,,, its because you speak the truth!!

amzbrady · Apr 26, 2010

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"Iam appalled to think about families with children using the parks while gun fanatics can now legally take their loaded guns to the parks! And don’t think they won’t." says Connie Smith

"I am appalled to think that families with children dont care enough about their own families to carry for their own protection, now that they can legally take a loaded gun to the parks! And don't think they shouldn't." Says me.

There are many responsible gun owners with children who would dream of doing that and do.

gogodawgs · Apr 26, 2010

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"The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased"~ Alexander Hamilton

Washintonian_For_Liberty · Apr 26, 2010

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Liberals do NOT care about rights.... only feelings. It goes something like this... guns kill people, and make people feel bad... so guns are bad. Never mind a person's right to self defense... that's what the police are for... and you'll never convince them otherwise.... my mother practically puts her hands over her ears and yells "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA..." If I talk about guns... she cries.... and then gets this determined look on her face and snaps "Oh fine, lets give everyone guns, lets give everyone machine guns and grenades and rocket launchers... what amount of death will ever be enough for you!?!"

Do any of you have to deal with that from friends or family?

Matt85 · Apr 26, 2010

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Liberals do NOT care about rights.... only feelings. It goes something like this... guns kill people, and make people feel bad... so guns are bad. Never mind a person's right to self defense... that's what the police are for... and you'll never convince them otherwise.... my mother practically puts her hands over her ears and yells "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA..." If I talk about guns... she cries.... and then gets this determined look on her face and snaps "Oh fine, lets give everyone guns, lets give everyone machine guns and grenades and rocket launchers... what amount of death will ever be enough for you!?!"

Do any of you have to deal with that from friends or family?

my neighbors think im crazy... most of them either hate me or are to scared of me to even respond when i say "good mourning". my mom doesnt understand why any one would even want a gun and thinks be me and my dad are crazy. i have been shunned at parties and treated like a freak, just for mentioning firearms.

i cant tell you how many times ive wanted to move to a state where id be treated like an actual human.

gogodawgs · Apr 26, 2010

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Fortunately for me, my family understands. My parents own and carry guns. My family is pro liberty on my mother's side of the family. My family is pro gun/rednecks on my father's side of the family. My wife is a Navy veteran and carry's, her sister and brother-in-law are pro liberty. My wife's late mother was a conservative hippie and was pro liberty and pro gun. The only resistance we encounter is my wife's father and step-mother. They are both former life long union member's (teacher and paper-mill worker) and are big government. But they know my passion and beliefs and that of my wife and we have some good discussions. Only one aunt of her's is so rabid that she get's worked up and the conversation must end. Even with her aunt we have some great open political discussions. However, I would attribute the civility, although at times intense, to the fact that both my wife and I are college educated. Her aunt and other's are college educated as well. I only argue to the ideas and never attack an individual. If I get stuck in a point of an argument I simply begin to ask the other side questions and narrow down their point of view. By asking questions you can usually back others into a corner or narrow down their disagreement and find more common ground. Lastly, by asking questions you must LISTEN to the other side. Often times most of us talk and want to be listened to, but I find you can't learn if you don't listen.

"First Seek to Understand, Then be Understood" ~Steven Covey

antispam540 · Apr 26, 2010

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Matt85 wrote:

my neighbors think im crazy... most of them either hate me or are to scared of me to even respond when i say "good mourning". my mom doesnt understand why any one would even want a gun and thinks be me and my dad are crazy. i have been shunned at parties and treated like a freak, just for mentioning firearms.

i cant tell you how many times ive wanted to move to a state where id be treated like an actual human.

Good grief - we're starting to have things in common with the gay rights people.

Bill Starks · Apr 26, 2010

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"I am appalled to think about families with children using the parks while gun fanatics can now legally take their loaded guns to the parks! And don’t think they won’t." says Connie Smith

Yes, just look at how many folks were shot at the downtown Puyallup park when we had a BBQ.

Norman · Apr 26, 2010

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My family is pretty understanding. They chuckle about some of my activities, but are actually pretty excited about the IDPA interest and most of them enjoy target shooting. I tend to carry concealed most of the time anyway, so they rarely even know that I have a firearm on me. I tend to not be very pushy about my hobby and that has worked out well in perking friends/family interest in what I do. I've taught quite a few first time shooters about safety and target practice.

The biggest issue I've found? Dating. Around here nothing seems to change the avenue of a date like mentioning firearms. I don't want to lie, obviously, but when someone asks, "What do you like to do for fun?" Or "What did you do yesterday?" it puts me in a strange position.

Washintonian_For_Liberty · Apr 26, 2010

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gogodawgs wrote:

Fortunately for me, my family understands. My parents own and carry guns. My family is pro liberty on my mother's side of the family. My family is pro gun/rednecks on my father's side of the family. My wife is a Navy veteran and carry's, her sister and brother-in-law are pro liberty. My wife's late mother was a conservative hippie and was pro liberty and pro gun. The only resistance we encounter is my wife's father and step-mother. They are both former life long union member's (teacher and paper-mill worker) and are big government. But they know my passion and beliefs and that of my wife and we have some good discussions. Only one aunt of her's is so rabid that she get's worked up and the conversation must end. Even with her aunt we have some great open political discussions. However, I would attribute the civility, although at times intense, to the fact that both my wife and I are college educated. Her aunt and other's are college educated as well. I only argue to the ideas and never attack an individual. If I get stuck in a point of an argument I simply begin to ask the other side questions and narrow down their point of view. By asking questions you can usually back others into a corner or narrow down their disagreement and find more common ground. Lastly, by asking questions you must LISTEN to the other side. Often times most of us talk and want to be listened to, but I find you can't learn if you don't listen.

"First Seek to Understand, Then be Understood" ~Steven Covey

That's all nice and dandy if you can actually get them to be civil and not just call you a gun toting freak. I've been called a fanatic more times than I can count and listening to them solves nothing... they are convinced no one but police should own guns... I've asked "Well what about my right to protect myself?" to which they respond..." That's what the police are for..." it is a round robin argument and goes nowhere... so I've stopped trying to be nice or find common ground and have resolved myself to soundly defeating them politically... and building up organizations which can counter sue all their subversive organizations...

The Progressive ideology and Liberty cannot coexist in the same country... one must destroy the other. If we fail to recognize this... we will lose the battle. There is no debate... you cannot debate with absolutes... and progressives are all about their absolutes... as are we who absolutely believe that individual Liberty must be protected and preserved.

Our founders knew what we'd be facing and prophetically warned us;

“Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.” ~ Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President, 1743-1826

"The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men."~ Samuel Adams

Right now, and for the past 80 years, I'd say we have been cheated out of our Liberties one at a time by the artifices of designing men. It won't stop until we stop them... and reversing the damage will be a very hard fought battle indeed.

My relatives think "We won the election, so just shut up and deal with it... our people get to choose now what the laws are!" Well, my inalienable rights are NOT UP FOR A VOTE!!! And that is something they just cannot understand.

erps · Apr 26, 2010

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That's all nice and dandy if you can actually get them to be civil and not just call you a gun toting freak. I've been called a fanatic more times than I can count and listening to them solves nothing... they are convinced no one but police should own guns... I've asked "Well what about my right to protect myself?" to which they respond..." That's what the police are for..."

I find that my anti-gun relatives are also pro-choice. I use that angle to question why they feel they can infringe on my "choice" of self defense tools. I also ask them whether or not they would want an arm citizen to intervene on their behalf should they find themselves being threatened unlawfully with bodily harm or worse. I've also had good success with taking an anti-gunner shooting. I"ve seen some conversions first hand.

Flanders007 · Apr 26, 2010

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Liberals do NOT care about rights.... only feelings. It goes something like this... guns kill people, and make people feel bad... so guns are bad. Never mind a person's right to self defense... that's what the police are for... and you'll never convince them otherwise.... my mother practically puts her hands over her ears and yells "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA..." If I talk about guns... she cries.... and then gets this determined look on her face and snaps "Oh fine, lets give everyone guns, lets give everyone machine guns and grenades and rocket launchers... what amount of death will ever be enough for you!?!"

Do any of you have to deal with that from friends or family?

I got my Mom to come around and she was not even born in the USA. Even brought her to Wades and had her shoot my .40 and didn't even blink before putting a few rounds center target... talk about a great Mom/Son moment!

I only get the "guns kill people" from random uneducated people I encounter on my daily OC... but it hasn't happened in a while considering I'm a 'weather appropriate carry' kinda guy... now that it's getting nicer, I won't be wearing my jacket as much, and I expect to have another summer of "what's that?" and "why do you need that... blabhablhabh... I FEEL blabhblahblah..."

I don't do feelings, just actions. If the person confronting me about my OCing is not willing to even hear my point of view and basically says "I don't care what you say... I feel blahblahblah" that's the end of the conversation for me. Trying to even reason with the "feelings" of the anti's is a waste of time.

Flanders007 · Apr 26, 2010

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Liberals do NOT care about rights.... only feelings. It goes something like this... guns kill people, and make people feel bad... so guns are bad. Never mind a person's right to self defense... that's what the police are for... and you'll never convince them otherwise.... my mother practically puts her hands over her ears and yells "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA..." If I talk about guns... she cries.... and then gets this determined look on her face and snaps "Oh fine, lets give everyone guns, lets give everyone machine guns and grenades and rocket launchers... what amount of death will ever be enough for you!?!"

Do any of you have to deal with that from friends or family?

I got my Mom to come around and she was not even born in the USA. Even brought her to Wades and had her shoot my .40 and didn't even blink before putting a few rounds center target... talk about a great Mom/Son moment!

I only get the "guns kill people" from random uneducated people I encounter on my daily OC... but it hasn't happened in a while considering I'm a 'weather appropriate carry' kinda guy... now that it's getting nicer, I won't be wearing my jacket as much, and I expect to have another summer of "what's that?" and "why do you need that... blabhablhabh... I FEEL blabhblahblah..."

I don't do feelings, just actions. If the person confronting me about my OCing is not willing to even hear my point of view and basically says "I don't care what you say... I feel blahblahblah" that's the end of the conversation for me. Trying to even reason with the "feelings" of the anti's is a waste of time.

killchain · Apr 26, 2010

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jbone wrote:

I forgot to mention I also sent in an opinion yesterday, I wonder if this will be published?

In reference to article “County drops ban on guns in parks” published Thursday, April 22, 2010. What we have here is a reckless explanation in stereotypical fashion "County Council sees serious problems with allowing unrestricted possession of firearms in county parks, a place where children should be able to play and families gather without feeling threatened".

Carrying a firearm in parks is about protecting self and family while equally enjoying county parks. Those who arm are afforded the same liberties as those who choose not to, it’s about choice. The convenient labeling of threat is designed to increase control of liberties. Have members of the council abandoned the Washington State Constitution, waging war on our DECLARATION OF RIGHTS?, eager to nullify the excepted belief of GOD given rights, and the choice people have in exercising or not? Is the council stereotyping and is stereotyping not a form of discrimination? It would appear the council sees all who carry firearms a threat, whether a stock broker, burger flipper, drug pusher, member of the armed forces, taxi driver, molester, aerospace professional, fortunate or less fortunate, or even a fellow councilmember! We are all lumped (stereotyped) into one category, threat; an irresponsible person, a killer, one who would surly pack an AK-47 to a picnic and harm other park goers. Their perception being unmistakable, law abiding armed citizens are a threat and do not deserve the right of self defense.

Watch out Snohomish County, the entire State Of Washington for that matter as anti freedom supporters continue herding masses into believing our constitution does not “defines the rights of the people”, or that the preamble doesn’t really suggest “We, the people of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this constitution”, or that Article 1 Section 24 of our constitution “The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired’ was a error in transcription, early form of typo and therefore should be eradicated.

Was the passage of Ordinance No. 10-016 amending SCC 22.16.090, and adding 22.16.095 a true victory for gun rights in Snohomish County? No! Legal gun owners already had the right of possession under state law to carry in county parks. The councilmen had a change of heart? I think not, “County drops ban on guns in parks" was a calculated concession. They couldn’t possibly with any credibility take a motion to the legislature when they were deliberately disregarding state statutes (9.41.290, 9.41.300), and the rights of citizens under the constitution. The victory awaits us in Olympia, when the council’s attempt of gaining powers over firearm possession fails. Lastly, thank you Councilmen Koster for honoring and believing in our God-given inalienable rights and the liberties of an individual.

Edit forSize.

You dropped the capital GOD bomb. Odds are they won't publish it.

Some constructive criticism though, I think you should stay more on topic next time. I know they're all related, but just pointing out the facts (RCWs involving preemption, lack of massacres occuring, self defense) and not going into religious connotations will help. The second anyone sees religious wording, particularly God, they usually circular file the piece.

Mentioning that, does anyone know what the "Supreme Rule of the Universe" was all about?

gsx1138 · Apr 26, 2010

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antispam540 wrote:

Matt85 wrote:

my neighbors think im crazy... most of them either hate me or are to scared of me to even respond when i say "good mourning". my mom doesnt understand why any one would even want a gun and thinks be me and my dad are crazy. i have been shunned at parties and treated like a freak, just for mentioning firearms.

i cant tell you how many times ive wanted to move to a state where id be treated like an actual human.

Click to expand...

Good grief - we're starting to have things in common with the gay rights people.

We have a lot in common with gay rights people. Change the Anti's argument to "gay" instead of gun owner and the bigotry is very apparent.

I concur with the GOD comment. While it is nice to share your opinion, especially in an opinion piece, it adds nothing to your argument and fuels an incorrect stereotype. But hey, it's your letter.

joeroket · Apr 26, 2010

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Here is the response I wrote.

Re: Wrong to allow guns in our parks 04/26/2010
If the writer was half as intelligent as their letter makes them sound then they should already know the errors of their thought.
There already are people carrying guns in the parks. It is something that state firearm preemption, (need help with that word? Here is a link for you http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290 ) , already allows us to do.
Do you honestly think that parks are a non-violent sanctuary? Think again. People are assaulted, raped, and even murdered (GASP!!!) in our parks. I am one of those responsible gun owners you refer to. I carry a gun for the protection of my family and of yours if the need arises. I have passed a background check by the Sheriff and the FBI. Have you?
You mention that Seattle just relaxed their gun laws to be in accordance with state law. What you seem to not understand is that there was an injunction placed upon them by a King County Superior Court Judge to remove the unlawful restriction. Snohomish changed their law to be in accordance with state law because they had to, not because they wanted to. Did you want to pick up the tab for a lawsuit that the county would have absolutely lost? I certainly did not.

jbone · Apr 26, 2010

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killchain wrote:

You dropped the capital GOD bomb. Odds are they won't publish it.

Some constructive criticism though, I think you should stay more on topic next time. I know they're all related, but just pointing out the facts (RCWs involving preemption, lack of massacres occuring, self defense) and not going into religious connotations will help. The second anyone sees religious wording, particularly God, they usually circular file the piece.

Mentioning that, does anyone know what the “Supreme Ruler of the Universe was all about?

I don't go to church, but I believe in GOD, so I don't see it as dropping a bomb. It’s clearfounding principle of this country. Could care less if the herald publishes, but I refuse to remain silent in the arena on a thought they may not publish my opinion.

I interrupt the “Supreme Ruler of the Universe” as GOD, GOD being the Supreme Being.

"God Bless America" is an American patriotic song.

“One nation under God” Pledge of allegiance.

“In God We Trust" Still on the back of A GW in my wallet.

If we are in fear of saying GOD, then this country is in deep shit?

jbone · Apr 26, 2010

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gsx1138 wrote:

I concur with the GOD comment. While it is nice to share your opinion, especially in an opinion piece, it adds nothing to your argument and fuels an incorrect stereotype. But hey, it's your letter.

GOD comment has everything to do with it.

Wrong to allow guns in our parks

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